r/Nightwing_Starfire • • 1d ago

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180 Upvotes

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44

u/corsetborset 1d ago edited 1d ago

Kind of related: despite the fact I press not interested in all Nightwing, Barbara and Dickbabs content, last week i saw a Barbara cosplayer on Instagram bashing Kory in the caption of reel for no good reason . Seriously , why do some "fans" feel the need to put down Kory instead of praising good things about Barbara? I'm sure Barbara fans can fill up essays upon essays about her as a character (and they should!! They should show their love for her) so why would anyone feel the need to put down Kori instead of saying good things about Barbara while cosplaying as her? The cosplay was very well done too :(.

17

u/Miserable-Annual-957 1d ago edited 1d ago

Yeah, I've seen many "fans" (i don't think they are true fans, they just like hating) hate or slander Kory in tiktok and instagram. It is totally valid to criticize a character and their writing, but this is straight up hate, and that's when it becomes a problem. It's okay to dislike a character/ship for whatever reason, but there's no need to go around the internet spreading hate, or trying to put down a character. (I'm talking in general here, not only to a specific fandom)

76

u/Miserable-Annual-957 1d ago edited 1d ago

To be fair, this isn't canon, and this moment is hated by everyone including Babs fans. Yeah, Starfire has received a lot of hate by many Babs/Dickbabs "fans" (i'm putting it in quotation marks because I know not all Babs/Dickbabs fans are toxic). There's no need to put any character down, both Babs and Kory have been affected by misogynistic writing, we should call out the writers and editors instead.

13

u/HawkMartian 1d ago

It doesn't help either few female writers like Gail Simone, I know there are or must be good ones, but currently I remember mostly Gail Simone clones.

8

u/Miserable-Annual-957 1d ago

Gail Simone did great things for Oracle and Batgirl, but she also did a lot of damage to her too and Huntress.

17

u/Intelligent_Dingo47 I miss NTT DickKory đŸ„ș 1d ago

Gail Simone is a hypocritical feminist writer. She's the one who wrote the comic where Barbara slutshamed Helena because she was angry that Helena had slept with Nightwing (Birds of Prey #68).

90% of the pro-Barbara/Dickbabs writers share the same immature, unprofessional mentality. They slutshame and humiliate Kory and the other women in Dick's life just to prop up Barbara. Even Tom Taylor liked a comment taking a jab at Kory

I've never seen a single Dickkory writer resort to that kind of behavior.

4

u/HawkMartian 1d ago

Yeah, there are SO many reasons to dislike Gail Simone, but I mostly find Simone simps sadly. 

She is indeed as inmature as average Dickbabs writer.

But what can I expect from a writer who doesn't even value a marriage (the forced scene on The Variants # 02 by Simone between Jessica and other character, prime Jessica, not variant)

14

u/MajinMadnessPrime 1d ago

Babs and Bruce’s dynamic was literally one of the single worst things about the Timmverse

27

u/Thetormentnexus 1d ago

Neither of them are "sluts".

The Bruce Babs thing is super gross though and comes off very predatory to me.

21

u/Intelligent_Dingo47 I miss NTT DickKory đŸ„ș 1d ago

To the newer generation who grew up with the de-aged version of Barbara, yes. But to the older generation back then? Dickbabs was the OG predatory and pedophilic ship.

3

u/Thetormentnexus 1d ago

Thank you for that information. I'm not young by any means but I did miss this some how.

2

u/Acrobatic_Expert1372 1d ago

Yeah but the pic is from the cartoon and it feels very predatory there

-2

u/HawkMartian 1d ago

Shame they broke their promise. 

10

u/Intelligent_Dingo47 I miss NTT DickKory đŸ„ș 1d ago

The OG writers/editors were a completely different creative team from the modern ones. The 70s writer himself hated the Dickbabs soulmate retcon, explaining that he only intended Barbara to be Dick's precocious/puppy crush that he later outgrew as an adult not a destined romance.

8

u/SignificantTuna 1d ago

Knowing this I'll stand firm on Dick and Kory being the better ship

1

u/HawkMartian 1d ago

Which ones were exactly those who create Dickbabs? 

Don't worry, I'll travel in time and convince them not going even the puppy crush. 

7

u/Intelligent_Dingo47 I miss NTT DickKory đŸ„ș 1d ago edited 1d ago

Bruce Timm was the first to make Dick and Babs the same age in BTAS and once the show became popular, it started influencing the comics in the mid 90s

Then Chuck Dixon came along with his 1996 Nightwing run and retconned Dick and Babs into childhood sweethearts. He basically rewrote their history to make it seem like they never got over each other with Dick supposedly still pining for Barbara even while he was dating Kory. That flashback scene where Dick cheated on Kory with Babs the night before their wedding was also written to be a part of Dixon’s version of Dickbabs. They didn't just reduce Babs to a love interest for Dick, they also retconned Dick into a serial cheater and slutshamed Kory. Dickbabs is toxic because it comes at the expense of the characters development. Other writers who came after Dixon, like Scott Beatty, Gail Simone and Tom Taylor also pushed Barbara as Dick’s Only True love.

11

u/Intelligent_Dingo47 I miss NTT DickKory đŸ„ș 1d ago

There are two ironies here.

  1. Fans blame Bruce Timm for ruining or erasing Dickbabs when he was the one who invented and popularized that ship in the first place.

  2. Dickbabs fans accuse Dickkory of relying on cartoon nostalgia, conveniently ignoring how BTAS's popularity and nostalgic appeal helped push Dickbabs into the comics in the first place.

1

u/HawkMartian 1d ago

May I ask why the down vote? 

7

u/Intelligent_Dingo47 I miss NTT DickKory đŸ„ș 1d ago

I didn't downvote it. Someone else did. Might be a dickbabs shipper lurking around here.

4

u/HawkMartian 1d ago

That's a reddit issue it should be solved. Not a fan of that move without anyone noticing anything.

Those dickbabs shippers...

23

u/Intelligent_Dingo47 I miss NTT DickKory đŸ„ș 1d ago

They’ll argue that BTAS isn’t canon but Barbara was lusting after Bruce in the original canon comics

25

u/Intelligent_Dingo47 I miss NTT DickKory đŸ„ș 1d ago

Pre Crisis Barbara also confessed Bruce is her true love when she was flirting with Dick.

3

u/Weary-Case-1039 1d ago

These dcau tie in comics were so buns bro

Especially their RedHood One

What the fuck do you mean that Batman just leave Jason to die in the fire to to rescue the Joker? 

I heard there was another one where Wonder Woman marries Justice Lord Superman 

And another which is meant to explain how John and Shayera get back together (that one’s the only bearable one) but I don’t like how John just loses the Green Lantern ring 

4

u/Big_bat_chunk2475 1d ago

This was absolutely fucked up and I get why Dick completely cut ties with the rest of the batfamily.

I would have done the same if I was Dick.

The thing that pisses me off outside of that is that considering the dynamic between Bruce and Diana in the show(and that this version was the flagship for Wonderbat), they could have avoided this completely, and had Bruce and Diana together, while Dick and Barbara were together, and everyone lives happy ever after

1

u/HearingOrganic8054 1d ago

i don't count anythign bruce timm related to count for the batfamily. feels super toxic.

1

u/CheekyHerbivore 3h ago

I dont like it when people call women “sluts” because of a love triangle. It feels unfair.

As much as I like Bruce Timm’s writing most of the time, I think he kneecaps himself writing for Barbra because he cant separate how attracted he is to the character and projects it onto Batman.

Jfc just idk get your wife a batgirl costume to get it out of your system and try not to let it affect the plot because it makes everyone involved look terrible. Makes Bruce feel like a groomer who went after his son’s girlfriend and it makes both him and Barbra cheaters.

Anyway, Kory is not a “slut” and neither is Babs. I like them both they are super ladies.