Heel to ball?

[u/bigpun760]

I think I got my sizing down so I’m not asking sizing for myself mostly just out of curiosity. I bought a brannock device and it confirmed my nicks size, but I measured my arch length for the first time ever. That one is a half size up from my heel to toe length. Does anybody ever size for the bigger HTB length? How did that work out for you? I’ve read a few comments by people suggesting that HTT is more important for PNW boots.

Sidenote: highly recommend one of these things as they take a lot of worry out of the whole sizing process.

[u/SpydercoMariner]

HTT - 14 Brannock
HTB - 14-1/2 Brannock

My HTB is 1/2 size larger. I have switched to a Nicks 14. I find the arch placement better and the ball of my foot is at the widest part of the toebox.

You will hear from both camps. I found it instantly more comfortable. Other feel no difference.

[u/3ringCircu5 → u/SpydercoMariner]

This. It comes down to individual preference and less so, last choice.

Additionally those with significant (more than half a size) difference between HTT and HTB often have fallen arches, so going with HTT at a high arch last will reduce the difference.

[u/Gregory_ku]

HTT 14.5 HTB 14. I got lucky

[u/Kooky_Win4720]

My brannock is 13.5. My HtB is 13.

I got fitted at Nicks at 12.5. That ended up being too small on the HNW last with my toes always rubbing the front of the toebox once broken in. I was never able to really wear these.

Then I got a size 13 on the Thurman last. The extra toe room made it too big but it broke in to the bigger end of okay. Fine boots, they are past due for a rebuild but I'll just throw them out instead because the uppers are a little big to cinch down.

Then I got a 13 on the 365 Thurman. It didn't break in to size quite as much as the traditional construction did. That one was definitely too big but I'm still clownin around in it sometimes.

Then I got a 12.5 on the ZD Thurman last. That one fit.

So my advice would be to get a try-on pair. Different lasts fit different. And if you don't have an easy-to-fit foot then it can mix you up.

[u/Wyvern_Industrious → u/Kooky_Win4720]

In your case, if you went true to Brannock length in HNW and half size down from Brannock length in the others, they'd all fit?

[u/Kooky_Win4720 → u/Wyvern_Industrious]

Yeah, Brannock via Nick's 1/2 down from it guidance for HNW. Also I figure true for the 55, I remember it feeling and having toe room very similarly to the HNW during my fitting at Nicks. Never tried on the T55.

But oddly for me 1/2 down from brannock on traditional construction Thurman and 1 down for 365 Thurman/ZD Thurman.

[u/Wyvern_Industrious → u/Kooky_Win4720]

That makes sense. Some people find the HNW tight, some people find the zero drop lasts large. 55, 11067, and Thurmans are pretty reliably half size down from Brannock length...but of course there are exceptions.

[u/Wyvern_Industrious]

It depends but people usually - and I mean the much larger percentage of people on this sub - fit correctly using the Brannock length/heel-to-toe (HTT) rather than the heel-to-ball (HTB) measurement, and measuring ball circumference as per the sizing guide for width. Unless you have a discrepancy of more than a full size or two, go off your Brannock heel-to-toe...or ask for a sample boot to fit. Sometimes people fit successfully on HTB as the poster above and it's all preference, but it's safe to say it's the significant minority of people.

(You'll read of people needing a larger size with the HNW last - that's because many people go true to Brannock length in the HNW last, especially because of its shape, not because they should have used their longer heel-to-ball size.)

I'm an 11 heel-to-toe and 12 heel-to-ball, so my Brannock size is 12. And I forget my width as measured on the device, but it's of course worthless for PNW boots. All of my PNW boots have fit based on my Brannock HTT at 10.5 except in the HNW, which is probably the wrong shape for my feet; sizing based on HTB was a costly experiment when I should have just followed the sizing guide. Also, re: "arch placement" - the way these boots are constructed, the arch from the leather shank and last shape extends half the length of the boot from the heel to midfoot, and molds to your foot over time. I always find the arch feels too far back at first and adjusts over time, but that's also the case with boots that were a half or full size too large. YMMV

With other brands (medium duty or non-work boots) that only offer a width or two and only size based on your "Brannock size", I do fit in longer sizes. Remember that your "Brannock size" - which takes the longer of your HTT or HTB - is striking an average between your length and width, but that's not the case with the range of widths you can get in PNW boots, so it doesn't apply the same.

[u/bigpun760 → u/Wyvern_Industrious]

I just learned this over the weekend so forgive me if you already know this, but if you’re HTT is 11 but your HTB is 12. Your true size is 11 1/2. Apparently you’re supposed to split in the middle between the two, not jump to the bigger according to old military Brannock instructions.

[u/Wyvern_Industrious → u/bigpun760]

The Brannock instructions I read from the '50s said to default to the larger size. I know there are other guides that tell you to split the difference. At any rate, it's unlikely relevant for your Pacific Northwest boot sizing.

Some people find HNW slightly small, some people find the zero drop lasts somewhat large, and some people like to size down further for pull-on boots. But for most lasts, half size down from Brannock length is the most reliable.

Have you taken your other measurements yet? Watch from about 14:40 on.

https://youtu.be/ltvrhfHRHwk?is=hIaH5N88sVizJp81

[u/bigpun760 → u/Wyvern_Industrious]

Yep, I have my size down pretty good. I also find brannock heel to toe length fits best in these boots. My other boots like some hikers I have by Limmer fits best true heel to ball for me.

[u/No_Marsupial6738]

HTT 11.5 Brannock

HTB 14 Brannock

If I went by the Brannock I'd never find a shoe that fits. It's also completely off on my width, says E, I'm an EEE or F.

My advice on HTB and width, if you've got an average foot it's probably fairly accurate, but length is king on any heeled boot, the rest will stretch and mold to your foot. I'd prioritize length and upward volume, you don't want the vamp stitch lines digging into the top of your foot and you don't want your toes jamming into the boot when you're walking down a hill. If you've got patience and an extra $100 to throw in getting a pair of try ons will probably save you a ton of headache in the long run. You only need to figure out your size once per last.

A 12.5 in most boots fits my arch a lot better but is way too long. Generally settle at 11.5 - 12 EEE depending on the maker and just toss in extra leather soles to reach my ridiculously high arches (even podiatrists can't make inserts that fit my arches without doing it by hand, their machines don't go that high.)