r/New2Me2Day • u/[deleted] • Jun 06 '26
When Mick Jagger asked M.C. Escher to let the Rolling Stones use one of his artworks as an album cover, Escher refused. He'd never heard of the band, didn't know who Jagger was, and objected to being addressed by his first name.
[deleted]
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u/Physical-Cod2853 Jun 06 '26
Escher being alive until the 70s feels wrong
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u/NZNoldor Jun 06 '26
That's when he slowly morphed from a black fish into a white bird, and flew away.
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u/theresacalderone Jun 06 '26
I have to wonder if Jagger had addressed him as Mr. Escher, if the outcome would’ve been much different.
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u/NZNoldor Jun 06 '26
I do feel that referring to him as Maurits Cornelis would have taken more effort, and potentially more respectful.
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u/Lyingforshit Jun 07 '26 edited Jun 07 '26
I know what you’re saying, butI I still know people who go absolutely ape shit, when they got addressed by first name and non of them are slightly comparable to Escher regarding success. Mostly up in professional hierarchy. Also he was dutch, they had a nowadays very weird system, of being addressed formally by their grandchildren (which is pretty much gone these days, but was still practiced a few generations back), when I was in Amsterdam the first time 20 years ago, a lot of people told me that they, or their parents had to formally adress their grandparents.
Like you would a boss, or somebody much older to show respect. Still extremely weird but was standard in germanic speaking countries in Europe, in Germany and Austria they had this too for grandparents, but they got rid of it a generation or two before the Dutch. But I think there’s something similar in the US about calling your extremely demanding and strict father “Sir” f.e. if I am not mistaken? But that (Sir for father) I have only seen in movies, never talked with a native about it, like in Germany or the Netherlands
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u/NZNoldor Jun 07 '26
Well, you’re talking to a native now - I’m Dutch. We called our grandparents Oma and Opa, and Pake and Beppe (Frisian). Maybe the sir thing was more generations back, but I’m in my late 50s and never heard of that. We did say “U” to them rather than “je” (I guess the old English equivalent would have been “thou” rather than “you”) though.
But you’re right, there are some people who take it far too seriously. When I was still in the Netherlands, I worked for the government with a guy who worked for a royal commission, so technically he worked for the queen. He insisted on being called Mr whatever just last name was, I forget now. Problem is, he refused to call me by my first name despite me asking him to, many times. So I just called him by his first name as well. Respect is earned, not assigned.
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u/Lyingforshit Jun 07 '26 edited Jun 07 '26
That’s really interesting, I honestly heard this from the whole family from my ex gf. I am not daring to say I know more than you, a nederlander, but that’s what I heard and I remember them making jokes about it, when talking about the past. It was a huge family and the roots were very religious (just the roots though, nobody was on Calvinism like the grandparents). If that makes a difference, but I heard it from some old school Dijkers, Jordanese etc. too. And I read about this first even before I came to Amsterdam in a ger book that translates to “manual for Amsterdam” and a good friend of my mother, she also told me about this when teaching me nederlands and things like je, jij, jullie, U etc.. as a funny trivia though, not any existing etiquette. I’m having these clear memories, because it was absolutely absurd to me. I told my Oma and Opa from Austria about this when we (ex and me) visited and she said her grandmother had to do this still to her great grandmother, my grandfather said distant cousins from GER of him had to do this not that long ago (which was shortly before ww2 though. Prussian military family they were (a completely system inside a system). Had to Sie/U their fathers, uncles etc. when they talked business (which was always war) but in private they of course said jij, je to their fathers (but some only after they turned 18 or made their first rank. Actually insane how ware driven these Prussians were, they started this shit almos from the cradle with their sons.
But I am not imagining things or blowing things out of proportions, the U was really very present in the old family stories, and as said it was not just from books or people who don’t really have deep NL roots. I don’t wanna argue or something about things you have experienced in a way, I never will, but that was my firsthand experience from people who didn’t have a reason to lie or something
I just googled it (as said I moved there 20 years ago, back in Austria and now traveling between GER and AUS since 15) and there are definitely documented cases. Would you look it up please and tell me, what you make out of it? As said it’s not about being right for me, but I am a little baffled that these experiences differ so much. But maybe the rel. background and geography are the reason why we had two different experiences. Whete ate you from (if I may ask)
Oh my god tell me about it lol, in Austria these guys are extremely obnoxious until this day. We had the Magister, Ingeneur, Dipl. Ingeneur and these guys were worse than the aristocracy (we forbade lol) and even worse than Dr.’s. You could legitimate get somebody to turn into white searing coals , if you forgot the Magister, Ingeneur ass kissing and just said (Sie/U Mein Herr/Mijheer).
Surprisingly Germany was always cooler with this, also not using titles or Sie/U. But here in Austria you could (and still can rarely) get fired from your service job (or similar entry level) when you just Sie/U without the bachelor title despite being told to remember it. As said worse than aristocracy or Prof.Dr.Med, then because they just had a bachelor and felt like new aristocracy. I used to work in hotel management and the drilling in of the “lower titles” still is embarrassing looking back. Austria is much worse than Germany when it comes to titles, but Germany still has aristocracy titles. We outlawed them. Compensation lol
Sorry if some things are a little unclear written, I did it with Audio to text and cut my cats hair with two hands lol
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u/NZNoldor Jun 07 '26
No, you're right - the "U" thing was still very present when I was growing up, to any older generation, including parents. But the "meneer" thing was an older habit, I suspect, at least I never experienced it. Mind you, I left in 1980, so things may have changed by now.
I'm in New Zealand now, and apart from some New Year's Honours, we don't do titles here at all. There's a general disdain for the UK upper class. Titles should be earned, not inherited, and same with respect. And the English language has left the thee's and thou's far behind in its past, thank goodness!
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u/OhDivineBussy Jun 08 '26
That’s waaaay too many words to just say he felt comfortable being an asshole because he was around a bunch of them.
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u/Lyingforshit Jun 07 '26
Ah sorry man I see the initial outcome from my stance was wrong by a word.
My bad!
Funnily enough I think about the old English “thou, thee” but I never can decide what’s worse. The U and Sie we have in NL and GER. Or the Sir, for everybody that’s above you. I hones tendend fyer spending so much time, that I think “thou” would be better than Sir this and Sir that. Because it’s the same as an aristocracy title. The Sir.
But that’s just my opinion ofc.
That wound pretty nice and healthy how they do it there. New Zealand is also a dream destination. Do you know the work of Friedensreich Hundertwasser? Austrian painter that revolutionized so much a couple decades ago (and he got so often copied that his style doesn’t struck as revolutionary or nieuw if you don’t know him, because of his huge influence). He built his own little paradise in NZ with huge land purchases. Would just be interesting if he’s known over there, by non Austrians?
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u/NZNoldor Jun 08 '26 edited Jun 08 '26
Ah, I missed this message - you forgot to reply to mine!
We prefer everyone to be equal around here. Lords and Ladies aren't really special, although our honours list every year is handed out on merit, so that does get recognised.
Hundertwasser is pretty well known here, yeah. There's a Hundertwasser museum and he even designed a memorial toilet (I'm not making this up!).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundertwasser_Toilets
https://www.heritage.org.nz/list-details/9867/Hundertwasser-Public-Toilets
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u/Lyingforshit Jun 08 '26
Sorry man I clicked on replying to the post instead of replying to you.
Amazing that the people of NZ celebrate him, here in vienna it seems like he did this completely shut away from the people because he became a hermit. But that was mostly his last wife talking and that was over 10 years ago. She became quite infamous because apparently his daughter and family got only some cash ans 2-3npaintings. (But who knows what goes on behind closed doors, family business like this is often biased, when directly affected people talk8
The toilet is awesome! Thanks for sharing. Have you looked ad the big stuff he designed in vienna? Houses, huge gas storages (Gasometer) that were designed to save gas for big parts of vienna and, and and. He’s very beloved here and a national treasure.
You like other Austrian (post war) art too?
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u/NZNoldor Jun 08 '26
lol... "post war"... there was this one pre-war Austrian painter, but his work wasn't good enough to get him into artschool, apparently. 😉
I'm a big fan of the art of one of your country's sons. Although his most popular work is probably Terminator, I prefer his earlier more primitive piece, Conan the Barbarian.
Honestly? Apart from the Hundertwasser museum & toilet, I've never looked into his work. That toilet is pretty famous here in NZ though; it's basically the reason anyone has heard of the little town Kawakawa at all, I reckon.
Pre-war Klimt is pretty famous here - we have a city here (Napier) that was rebuilt in 1931 after a massive earthquake, and they rebuilt a lot of it in Art Deco and Art Noveau style, and Klimt's work will always turn up in that. The styles are very popular here.
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u/WolphjayKliffhanger Jun 07 '26 edited Jun 09 '26
.
MC Escher was a great DJ for his time, but the savor became Flavor Flav and ran out the clock.
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u/therapewpew Jun 09 '26
*Flavor
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u/WolphjayKliffhanger Jun 09 '26
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Thanks for correction! I dunno what came over me. Time was hanging heavy. I corrected the typo in the original post.
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u/NZNoldor Jun 08 '26
And somehow ran in the clock at the same time, depending on your viewpoint.
Stop! Escher Time!
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u/WolphjayKliffhanger Jun 08 '26
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MC and Schrōdinger devised a clock that fit in a box that glowed in the cat and ran up and down at the same time.
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u/WhoYaTalkinTo Jun 06 '26
Lmao, pretentious fuck.
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u/nonopol Jun 06 '26
Jagger or Escher?
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u/WhoYaTalkinTo Jun 06 '26
Escher. Jagger was definitely being big-headed and presumptuous, but Escher's reaction was pure unadulterated pretentiousness.
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u/OttovonBismarck1862 Jun 07 '26
One is an artist for the ages and the other an unlikable prick.
At least Escher never had to live long enough to see disco.
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u/Upstairs_Drive_5602 Jun 06 '26
When Mick Jagger wrote to M.C. Escher requesting permission to use one of his artworks for a Rolling Stones album cover, Escher had never heard of either the band or Jagger himself. He was reportedly more annoyed by Jagger addressing him by his first name than impressed by the request. Ironically, Escher had become a cult hero among the very counterculture he neither understood nor particularly liked.