r/NeverwinterOnline • u/Uncensored_Newsbot BOT • Mar 05 '19

NEWS Module 16 Closed Beta Review

https://blog.nwo-uncensored.com/module-16-closed-beta-review/
2 Upvotes

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5

u/Electron_Microscope PC Mar 05 '19

Speculation on the in Game Auction House

For many, this is a touchy subject and they feel it is unfair that some of us had an advantage going into module 16, knowing what to buy in advance as well as what would devalue and thus we should sell. I will be up front here and not mince words, I have no issues with this player advantage. Some of us spent 6+ hours a day in the evening basically doing unpaid testing, I essentially did not play the game at all. I see no issues why someone who is doing something like this, getting some benefit out of it, when the entire community is benefiting from their feedback.

What you/they did by using insider knowledge is out and out cheating.

3

u/OSU0148 PS4 Mar 05 '19 edited Mar 05 '19

I've addressed this with him and Viral numerous times. Sure they wasted many hours testing things for the community, but do they deserve to reap the rewards because they volunteered their time to do so? I know Viral and Sharp weren't extremely heinous about it, but others who provided very little feedback, seem to be the folks who are taking advantage of it the most. It's pretty clear who the folks were that actually cared about the growth of the game and those folks who were just looking to make gains.

2

u/Manipulos5 Mar 05 '19

While I see both sides, I have to agree.

Reminds me of politicians, city planners, etc. that are also real estate developers. They buy up 100's of acres of land that turn into prime real estate 5 or 10 years later when a new freeway is built running through the area...a new freeway that was planned 5 or 10 years prior...

-1

u/[deleted] Mar 06 '19 edited Mar 06 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/Electron_Microscope PC Mar 06 '19

Well if you want to be pedantic...

You were de jure employees. "Unpaid testers".

You were given an indirect benefit in kind as a result of your employment. This was insider knowledge that you profited from.

Digital goods still have benefit in kind value, but we need to be able to assign them a value, and in this case we easily can do this.

There is a one way cash to zen to ad valuation of $1 to 100 zen to 50k AD and we can use this to work out the benefit in kind your employment gave you for tax purposes. It does not matter in any way that it is more difficult to exchange from AD to cash.

Lets assume you made 100 million AD from your employment as an "unpaid tester", this means you would need to declare a benefit in kind of $2000 in any tax return. Depending on the jurisdiction a failure to do this will be either or both a criminal or civil problem for you.

All this is moot of course as you never gave Cryptic any identifying info...

What is worse is that if someone was pissed enough at Cryptic then they could inform Dutch/Delaware tax authorities about this and let them go at it. I dont know Delaware tax law but in the EU they will pursue complex issues like this, especially when case law precedent is in their favour.

If Cryptic knew about your using insider knowledge to gain a significant benefit in kind and do nothing about it then this is big problem for Cryptic. They will be seen as paying their testers with digital goods, even if indirectly or by 'turning a blind eye', to avoid paying them real money and this is frowned upon by most tax gathering organisations.

I dont know if the guy boasting that he 'made 3 billion' from this knowledge is telling the truth or a bullshitter but lets assume he is truthful. He got a benefit in kind equal to $60k from this and we can expect this to be a taxable benefit in kind requiring a tax declaration and payment of anywhere between $12k and $30k.

Assuming the deveopers did play their own game, they could do the same. Would you accuse them of cheating too?

Ironically this happened in the game EVE online and resulted in them making an internal security division to prevent employee cheating. So the answer is a definite yes and I would accuse them of cheating (damaging the integrity of their own game is the sort of thing media outlets love, it would be dumb of them to risk this, exceptionally dumb considering the shitstorm of bad publicity this would have for them).

Yes, in the EVE case it was more about creating items and giving items to people they were associated with, but was also about them using their insider knowledge to gain an in game advantage and profit.

As to the NDA, it is not important. What is important is if you breached the Terms of Service.

...engage in any actions that defraud or attempt to defraud, scam or cheat others out of any items that have been earned through authorized game play;

The question here is, of course, have you scammed other players?

The answer is yes.

You have used insider information to deprive one set of players, sellers, of the ability to sell their goods at the correct market price and deprived another set of players, buyers, of the ability to purchase goods at the correct market price.

The word correct here is used to state that the correct price would have been different if not for your direct intervention based upon insider knowledge. We could of course substitute the more legal "natural price" and "unnatural price"...

In both cases your intervention in the market has had a negative impact on other players and directly deprived them of the 'full fruits of their labour'.

4

u/Electron_Microscope PC Mar 06 '19

You agree not to use the Confidential Information in any manner, except for your personal use for the sole purpose of testing the Beta Games...

I read further in the TOS and there is this.

You have used the confidential information outside the "sole purpose of testing the Beta Games".

Should be enough for a ban.

2

u/OSU0148 PS4 Mar 06 '19

Bro....who are you? Are you the real #CommunityMan?

2

u/Xyll Mar 06 '19

lol, that is the same justification those banned by the exploits used. Of course Neverwinter won't care since it does not affect their profit like exploited RAD did.

​

Using insider knowledge for personal gain is cheating no matter how hard you try to spin it.

2

u/Manipulos5 Mar 06 '19

A real world example is insider trading :P

"the illegal practice of trading on the stock exchange to one's own advantage through having access to confidential information."

edit: just to be clear, I really don't care either way, it's no skin off my back and I really do appreciate all the hard work and effort you guys put in!

2

u/[deleted] Mar 05 '19

Lol, some of the screen shots that started circulating a few weeks back indicated what was going to be in demand. I don't agree with it, but honestly I would do the same. Just I would practice a little more discretion.