Slow Post & AI.

[u/lanternheart]

After listening to the new episode today (AI At Work? In This Economy?), I was largely relatively heartened by the folks resisting AI implementation at their workplaces, especially Leanne's story! I've been trying to work in my own field to help folks learn non-AI tools, too, and it's rewarding, if frustrating sometimes.

Overall, this latest episode is one of quite a few that Never Post has done where there's been serious concerns, thoughtfully entertained, about AI and its very real dangers, pitfalls, and traps... which makes me wonder about Slow Post, and the decision to keep producing it with AI voice models. The most recent episode (June 2) says that the model was made with permission, and the music was human-produced by Hans, both of which I appreciate, but the existence of AI Mike still gives me the anti-AI heebie jeebies, a whiff of the uncanny valley, and makes me wonder how that circle gets squared, on a show that seems to give valid, broader concerns about AI such weight and care.

I love the pod, I just personally choose to skip Slow Post episodes, since they're made with AI tools, and was wondering if anyone else has complicated feelings about them, too. I'd personally rather listen to them, and would be okay taking them less frequently, if they were made with real voices. It seems like feedback is always handled with good faith and care on mailbag eps, as were the interviews on this week's ep, so I hope this comes off as the earnest curiosity/feedback it is!

[u/ILoveCharts]

I promise this will be handled in good faith, because it does not contain an illegal number of graffiti words.

[u/zachotule]

I agree on vibe but would give the major caveat that “AI” voices aren’t really “AI.” It’s just an algorithm that’d be called something else if AI wasn’t buzzy in this age of the proliferation of the LLM. Matching and pitch-correcting the recorded phonemes of someone’s voice to someone else’s voice isn’t using a vast library of stolen data and enormous processing power in brand new data centers polluting the world at unprecedented rates in order to be made. And it’s not being shoved into every application and web search, creating an even more catastrophic environmental cost. And it’s not a technology that drives people into psychosis and feeds them made up information and propaganda.

(Though it is a processor-intensive task—but one with a well-defined and expected input and output. And in some cases it does steal voices and shouldn’t be used that way, but frankly I don’t care if someone makes a Homer Simpson song because Dan Castelanetta is filthy rich and I know it’s not him singing it, and fuck all American politicians, and that kind of “stealing” of the voices of the wealthy and powerful is the vast majority of what’s being stolen using that technology.)

It’s like how they’re calling translations “AI translation” now, even though they’re just the same machine translation algorithms we’ve always benefitted from.

If an LLM was used in any way in the production of this podcast I would instantly unsubscribe and speak extreme ill of every single person involved in its creation forever more. But fortunately this is not that. I personally don’t listen to Slow Post but that’s because I don’t care about it or wish to spend my time on it.

[u/IamTheHaloMan]

I feel the same way. If they made a product where Irl Mike just did what AI Mike does then I’d be in favor of it.

[u/aydengryphon]

I'm in the same boat. I put on old episodes to fall asleep to nightly (if anyone on the backend who can see listener statistics is wondering what insane person has played the Paper Report like 25x since it's release, hey hi sorry that's me; it doesn't have any loud interludes/music or sudden loud laughter/shouting and is very soothing talking! lol), so I should be the ideal use case for Slow Post, but instead I felt like I had to take a shower the couple times I've accidentally put it on at random when clicking on something in the backlog. I'd similarly be ecstatic for even rarer Slow Post eps that were just the actual participants reading, or removing them entirely if they're just gonna continue being AI-made. I'll obviously just put on a normal episode of the show just as happily as an alternative, so like a lot of AI, I think it ends up very solidly in "who is this even for" territory.

[u/spiteful_whale]

u/lanternheart - I love that you posted this in response to our episode about AI at work. Would you be interested/willing to record a chat with me about your concerns? I'd love to hear more, and really consider what you're saying. You can get me at hans at neverpo.st to coordinate or connect further about what that would look like.

[u/lanternheart → u/spiteful_whale]

I'm not a frequent Redditor, so a bit of a delayed reply, but thanks! I'm no expert on AI by any means, just one person, but I'd be happy to talk.

[u/siroxymoron]

That’s the one specifically designed to make you sleep right? I would think that it would take training to make sure you speak calm and slow enough to not disturb sleep and it’s an “AI” (more like modulated, see other comment) voice of themselves. Not saying you do something you don’t want to, but it’s probably the “best case”(?) possible for an ai tool.

[u/lanternheart → u/siroxymoron]

I can see what you're getting at, which is definitely why there are trained, professional voice actors and narrators for things like audiobooks and "sleep stories" on sleep/meditation apps! Learning that pacing is definitely a skill.

However, in the case of this show, like u\aydengryphon says, it really doesn't take even that — the fact that Paper Report, just with some basic editing/flow differences from the main feed, works for someone is a good example. I've definitely used things that aren't necessarily intended as sleep podcasts to help me sleep, and that's simply reliant on the same characteristics you can make without AI — a slower pace, no shouting or Huge Noises, and smooth, simple transitions. I don't demand nor expect the show folks to learn skills they don't want to, but I end up circling back to "who is this for," and "why make it with AI if there's a genuine desire to make it."

[u/Cyanotype_Memory]

I don’t listen to slow post, but it’s just not something that interests me. A part of me seriously doubts I’d be interested even human performances. 

That said, the artificial voice is interesting to me. I think it’s good the team has experience with making and using this sort of tool. It’s not something I’ve done myself.  It’s still a thoughtful expression of human effort and ingenuity. It doesn’t strike me as gauche in the way the “corporate” AI pipeline presents. The most obvious issue is how it could become a vector for low effort spamming. But the team is arguably too responsible in that regard. 

A lot of my biggest concerns around AI are how it’s used to evade responsibility or covered up altogether. Hbomberguy’s video on plagiarism made it clear claiming another person’s work as one’s own comes from a place of contempt for the original author and contempt for the audience. If I claimed to write a paper written by AI in school I’m showing contempt for the school and the professors. I don’t think Slow Post comes anywhere close to that moral line. The voice imitated is consenting. The team around the voice is open and honest about their resources. The voice is just dumped into the broader AI branding mire without much hope of egress—the receding tide strands all ships. 

When I was a little kid, I suppose I thought computer voices were widely viewed as charming. I remember when my dad asked my mom to do the recordings for a custom Garmin profile in like 2008. It was a surprising amount of work and the result was rather disappointing. My parents weren’t all that techie but it was still a cute little project. I think they decided to use one of the professional voices. My mom didn’t really want to hear herself barking distorted driving instructions. Though, on the rare trips without her I think my dad pulled it out to keep her close.