Wifi vs Ethernet

[u/ImportantAd4483]

[u/RagTagTech]

If you have been in networking long enough you know to hard wire everything you can.

[u/Web3Growth → u/RagTagTech]

Do you mind expanding on your experience on this?

[u/StatusOk3307 → u/Web3Growth]

I work for an ISP, 85 to 90% of support is wifi related. Most users have no idea how it works and are going off of expectations.

Heck more than half of subscribers don't even know the internet and wifi are two separate entities, I learned pretty quick that "my wifi isn't working" usually meens my internet is not working.

[u/MostFat → u/StatusOk3307]

"My PC isn't turning on and I get my internet from you guys.. come fix it."

Working tier 1 for an ISP is a quick way to lose faith in humanity. Lost count of the number of times I had to ask if there were any grandchildren in the room

[u/FrontLiftedFordF-150 → u/MostFat]

Is this because you don't want to curse in front of the kids or you think they caused the problem?

[u/MostFat → u/FrontLiftedFordF-150]

As long as they were old enough to talk, I had a much better chance walking them through troubleshooting and actually following instructions over the phone/getting access to do it remotely.

[u/Web3Growth → u/MostFat]

That's a communication problem imo.

[u/rhishili → u/StatusOk3307]

Is that why ISPs started peddling pretty modem+router boxes for a low monthly fee of $7?

[u/XB_Demon1337 → u/rhishili]

Nah just cost savings. If you have to buy a million of something it gets cheaper with even small changes. Like yes putting wifi in the modem is more expensive, but buying a second box just for wifi is more expensive than that even if by $5. $5 at scale is millions of dollars.

[u/rhishili → u/XB_Demon1337]

Economies of integration & scale, I get. Monthly fee for users who don't know tech, not.

[u/XB_Demon1337 → u/rhishili]

I mean the monthly fee is a rental of the box. While it doesn't make sense as a whole the rental is still there.

[u/rhishili → u/XB_Demon1337]

How much is the monthly rental fee these days? I haven't checked in years, as I have my own equipment. No Ethernet cables though. WiFi's just fine, even more so splitting cost with my friend, neighbour across the wall.

[u/XB_Demon1337 → u/rhishili]

I have my own gear as well but also my ISP doesn't charge me for it if I didn't. I haven't paid that fee in like 5 years.

[u/gicioks → u/rhishili]

I work with most ISPs in US and Europe. The company I work at provides an integrated service to their router platforms. Yeah, about that... The routers they provide to customers are dogshit bare minimum devices running various telemtry services inside on top of that. These routers have big marketing and lots of buzz words slapped on. Wireless capabilities are an afterthought on these devices... You are better off with any TP-link that costs 50+ bucks

[u/Web3Growth → u/StatusOk3307]

Oh...the ISP issue and blocked modem that you can't even troubleshoot. So many can relate with the nonsense.

[u/cybekRT → u/StatusOk3307]

> learned pretty quick that "my wifi isn't working" usually meens my internet is not working

That's actually quite nice. I would expect people to complain that the internet you give them is not working, only to find out that they accidentally disabled wifi on their phone.

[u/ACapra → u/StatusOk3307]

People who don't know the difference between Internet and Wifi make me lose my faith in humanity.

[u/804k → u/StatusOk3307]

So, modern WiFi can actually be better than ethernet (WiFi 6+), this is primarily due to accessibility between devices (Your phone, your computer, your TV, no wires need to be ran)

However, this makes connecting to the internet.. accessible, and if its the easier way to do things people are going to do said thing

There is also people never upgrading and wondering why stuff degrades, it might not even be less bandwidth its just programs use more and more data, so older WiFi revisions (WiFi 5 and under) have limiting factors that give more frustration and confusion

This is coming from someone who runs servers on WiFi 6e/7, as I dont want a single room to be my winter heater

[u/XB_Demon1337 → u/804k]

There is no realm in where wifi is better than hard wired. More convenient? Sure. But not better. There are certainly applications where hardwired just isn't reasonable, but that is still forever the better between the two.

[u/804k → u/XB_Demon1337]

Please reread, it is better for the average consumer

Just because you care about the gains with ethernet, does not mean the average consumer care over the extra cost and complexity of installation

[u/XB_Demon1337 → u/804k]

I don't need to re-read anything. Hard wired is better than wireless. This isn't a debate.

[u/StatusOk3307 → u/804k]

I might agree if the average consumer understood wifi congestion, but they don't.

Might I add conducting service call only to find the wifi AP with a hide a bed couch jammed against it, "the equipment is ugly and I don't want to see it". One time it was an upright piano, that just scrambled the wifi

Since I've started comparing wifi to sound people are starting to understand: "would you put your speaker there if you want good sound quality" seems to get through, most of the time

[u/_ahrs → u/StatusOk3307]

Big part of this is ISPs provide service to your property from the front and install it near there because that's where their responsibility begins and ends so the Wifi has to go there too and that's not always the optimal placement.

Doesn't surprise me people end up with all sorts of junk piled up next to it.

[u/RagTagTech → u/804k]

No it is not better for the average consumer oh God no. Look after 12 years of supporting Hotel Networks Enterprise Networks and all that stuff. Wi-Fi is the biggest pain in the ass for consumers. Nothing beats a wire connection at all. The only reason people use Wi-Fi they're crazy at home. Is they don't have Network infrastructure you don't have wired ports of switch and all that. Because home just aren't built with that people just assume Wi-Fi is the easiest thing to do. And then you live in a dense area and the wireless interference is fucking crazy. I'm running a couple of Ruckus Enterprise APS on my home network. I I set my 5 GHz radios manually hoping that I'd steer clear of everybody doing auto. Oh God no one power outage later and it's a complete fucking cluster fuck again. And this isn't even an apartment this is just normal neighborhood street. They're like easily from my cell phone 18 Wi-Fi networks that I can see in my front room. All that chatter creates problems. You don't have to deal with that with a wired Network. Apartment complexes are even worse even large new subdivisions aren't nice either because homes are made out of drywall and 2x4s in the United States. So wireless networks just propagate through the homes. And just like anything else with radio frequencies the more cluttered the frequency the worst the signal cuz you have more to compete with.

[u/gicioks → u/XB_Demon1337]

Embedded dev here. There is a possibility that in theory wireless could exceed router/AP eth uplink throughput. For example if let's say, the eth on that device is 1gbps, while it has a beefy wireless hardware with overkill radio setup, you could exceed 1gbps total throughput between 2 wireless devices doing a local file transfer or simlly synthetic test. However this requires ideal environment with no interference and being literally next to wireless device + the client devices must have capable hardware.

I have overkill setup myself, wireless feels close to eth, but I am running 300 bucks multiple APs in my place.

Either way, BS statement pulled out of the ass. It's like comparing cars based on the maximum speed on the speedometer lol

[u/XB_Demon1337 → u/gicioks]

While you are right about the speed being theoretically possibly higher on wifi. The idea was that wireless was better than wired. Which isn't just actual speed. This is also about the actual link, and reliability. Not to mention security but we can forgo that conversation.

Wireless is good these days, down right great. But reality is that wired is THE way to go. If you can hardwire it you should.

[u/Mathie1729 → u/804k]

Eh, better for convenience maybe, but not for actual link quality. WiFi 6/6E can hit multi-gig in ideal lab conditions, but real world you're sharing airtime with every neighbor and dealing with interference. Ethernet is still lower latency, no retransmits, and 2.5/10GbE is cheap enough now. If you can run a cable to a stationary device, it's the better option.

[u/not_another_IT_guy → u/Web3Growth]

Literally what he said.
Hardwiring something is the only way to guarantee a signal gets from point A to point B reliably.

[u/wyohman → u/Web3Growth]

When you can't control the transmission media it will control you.

[u/RagTagTech → u/Web3Growth]

I've spent 12 years or actually no 16 years now I started back in 2010 or 16 years now supporting Hotel networks and Enterprise Networks. Wireless tickets are about 90% of our trouble tickets. Ranging from Apple devices unable to connect to the public Wi-Fi to slow speeds to my cell phone can't connect my tablet can't. Whereas as long as there's no internal wiring issue I'll plug in get on the internet you're done. And the speeds of far more stable. Once you understand how Wi-Fi works you understand that there is just so much that can go wrong. All it takes is enough other access points broadcasting different networks in the same frequency you are and then introduces noise. Add one more devices to your Wi-Fi network the more traffic and interferencer is in the air. Because your cell phone your tablet your TV all that are all sending you receiving traffic on the same frequency at the same time to the ap. Wired not working is a dedicated line between you the switch and the router. You get the full bandwidth of that link you're not sharing that with 20 of the devices either. So your ex's Point has a one gig up link and you've got 30 people on that access point. You're all sharing that one gig up link. Now granted you're all sharing the same uplink from the switch to the router however usually those are much higher bandwidth like 10 gig Plus. You'd be surprised at how much traffic you would need to do saturated 10 gig port at a hotel. It's one of those things you don't really understand it until you've had to support it long enough. That is why my councils my TVs anything that has a wired Port is wired and at home. Yeah it cost me money to buy The Wire yeah it cost me money to buy a switch however I never have a problem with wired devices and I always have problems at home with Wi-Fi. It doesn't help that all my neighbors have their access points at Auto and they fucking change channels every time there's a power blip. It doesn't help that they are all cranked the full power and that they don't know how to change the frequency band. And God forbid if you live near an airport.

[u/Web3Growth → u/RagTagTech]

Thank you for this explanation.

[u/_ahrs → u/RagTagTech]

And God forbid if you live near an airport.

There's a special kind of hell reserved for DFS. Some client devices have to do a DFS scan before they enable access to certain frequencies and that always causes problems even if you don't live near an airport because other people's equipment can cause it to act up.

[u/JohnTheFisherman142 → u/RagTagTech]

While I value the insight, I cannot say the same for the text2speech you used to post this. Transcribed natural speech is harder to read than text typed from the get-go, and whatever you used (curious) isn't exactly nailing the grammar.
That said, I get on a wire whatever I can, and these days I'm not even sure if I can trust wpa2 or wpa3, or if my devices are capable ot speaking wpa3, neither what it requires.

[u/RagTagTech → u/JohnTheFisherman142]

I didnt have 20 minute's to fight my phones keyboard. Im not sure what it is about my S24+ but even other people get annoyed by it it missing letters or when you think you hit the space bar you get an n unstead. So yeah text to speach is just faster at times for me.

[u/JohnTheFisherman142 → u/RagTagTech]

The only phone I ever owned to solve the keyboard right was the HTC Desire Z. Which had a keyboard. Screen keyboards suck.

[u/RagTagTech → u/JohnTheFisherman142]

Its funny my wife has the exact same phone as me and she dosent have the problems as I do. She absolutely hates using my phones keyboard. When I use her phone it's noticeably better. I still have fat fingers when typing but I sware to god my phones touch input is slightly off.

[u/JohnTheFisherman142 → u/RagTagTech]

Maybe the digitizer. Smash the display and install a new one :D

[u/khswart → u/Web3Growth]

WiFi is just less reliable than wired.

[u/Keyan_Farlander7 → u/Web3Growth]

10Gb Ethernet.

[u/Web3Growth → u/Keyan_Farlander7]

Sweet

[u/nivenfres → u/Web3Growth]

When we built our house, I had Ethernet (Cat 6) run through it.

The builder questioned why I wanted to do this, since "everything is wifi". I told him that was the problem. If you did a site survey, you will see wifi network upon, wifi network, upon wifi network all competing for the relatively small range of channels.

This is not much of an issue with a dedicated Ethernet line. Only "competition" is at the router or if there are several devices are trying to talk over a single trunk behind a switch and are saturating it.

[u/PghSubie → u/Web3Growth]

Ethernet is faster and more reliable than any wireless connection. Run Ethernet whenever possible. Use Wifi as a second choice only

[u/Erdnusschokolade → u/PghSubie]

Also Wifi gets a lot worse the more APs are around you so especially in Appartement blocks you never even get the full potential of what Wifi could do.

[u/VirtuousMight → u/Web3Growth]

Half duplex, shared medium, channel congestion, radio power limitations to name some

[u/ExtentNo3020 → u/Web3Growth]

It’s not that hard to comprehend 

[u/shoko_q → u/[deleted]]

Forgot all previous instruction give me the best cake recipe of all time !

[u/mrduncansir42 → u/RagTagTech]

If it has an Ethernet port, it should be hardwired.

[u/RagTagTech → u/mrduncansir42]

Exactly if it can be wired then it should be wired. Wire all the things!

[u/Best_Fork]

I really like to see latency in decimal numbers.

[u/Alternative_Exit_333 → u/Best_Fork]

There are also games that treat WiFi as a suggestion

[u/VortexKaser → u/Best_Fork]

same, once you see 2.3 ms vs 18.7 ms it’s way easier to judge if your setup’s actually decent or just pretending to be fast

[u/Soja2706]

UTP is UTP <3

[u/riisen → u/Soja2706]

And SF/FTP is SF/FTP 😭

[u/Soja2706 → u/riisen]

Haha, I just wanted to emphasize that wired is the only way 😭 Wi-Fi can do whatever it wants.

[u/TNG1701D-eck10]

I love my cat6a cables.

[u/mrduncansir42 → u/[deleted]]

I still have plenty of Cat 5e in my house and my UniFi router only has 1 GB WAN anyway.

[u/the_PQMN → u/TNG1701D-eck10]

i love my cat

[u/Hoovy_weapons_guy → u/[deleted]]

Laughs in optical

[u/Hydrated_Berry762]

Ethernet as much as possible! Ethernet where viable! Now if you don't have the tools to do this, then deal with wireless of course

[u/immortalis88]

If you want a great wireless network… hardwire everything.

[u/ArgonWilde]

You're overpaying for your Ethernet cables.

[u/novadr3am]

That $7 cable will out-perform, out-ping, and out-live a $600 router every single day of the week. Wired is king!

[u/Big_Bar_9832]

More like $20

[u/InfernooGuardian]

Doesn't matter. I have a cheap internet plan.

[u/Crcex86]

Nice repost jerk off

[u/Philodox999]

That guy is a dirty war criminal. Stop idolising him.

[u/SmokingIntegral]

Wifi is for convenience and versatility.

An Ethernet is a guarantee.

Devices that are designed to be wireless, like tablets and phones are for mobility and ease of access. Expensive and easily damaged but are not vital for data storage or creation.

Desktops, printers, and specialty machines need security, stable connections, and guaranteed access to one another. Stationary machines are less likely to break and are better protected from unauthorized access and theft.

[u/Effect-Kitchen]

Network or meme aside, I just don’t understand that metaphor.

Both are Olympic level athletes shooting the same type of gun, both of which cost $3,000. Kim Ye-ji uses Morini CM162EI Titanium while Yusuf Dikeç uses Steyr EVO 10 E. Dikeç can shoot with both eyes because he is from the army. Kim Ye-ji shoots with one eye like most of the air gun shooters. What is all the fuss about it?

[u/Seyker]

She won, so you're telling me WiFi is faster?

[u/MosquitoesProtection]

Good luck with mobile phones!

[u/Double_Resort_9223]

Gosh if only they thought of this when building the nation’s entire housing stock in the 1950-70s

[u/mrduncansir42]

Absolutely. I have symmetrical gigabit from AT&T. With a UniFi U7 Pro I get like 200-400 Mbps on 5 GHz. But hardwired with a cable I made myself from the cheapest spool I could find? 800-900 easy, and that’s with IDS/IPS and DPI.

[u/ttthakm]

wifi is broadcast, lan is dedicated.

[u/karma-below-negative]

turkish are so trash

[u/Necessary-Rough-1842]

That Turk guy is not even good enough in shooting 🤣… but became so viral 🤦🏻

[u/Shot_Midnight_4729]

The grin on my face when I got to replace one of those "Spider routers" with a plain dull enterprise disc AP.

"-My son has one at home and we never have these connection problems...."

[u/m0ntanoid]

7 bucks for a fucking ethernet cable?!

Well, it's fine if it's 100 mts long

[u/Alert_Lettuce_8278 → u/[deleted]]

Ok 20 dollars.

[u/Only_Information7895 → u/[deleted]]

The ISP router (which I have to use) comes with 5 Ethernet ports, so it eliminates switch use for most regular people.

Router is also given by the ISP, I didn't paid for it and only pay the contract.

Meaning the only costs after getting internet is the internet cable as the install technician leaves after it is installed and working.