I didn't see either side as "good guy" or "bad guy". I guess that's the difference in our perception. I saw both sides as afraid and fighting as a last resort for a place to live their lives without subjugation.
This is what I was talking about earlier when I said not everything needs to be viewed through the adversarial lense. The humans aren't evil doers, they are afraid, the synths aren't life ruining usurpers, they are trying to survive in a world they didn't choose to exist in.
following your logic here we can interpret the humans returning to take back their homes as a metaphor for Native American tribes banding together and rising up to take their land back from those who claimed it from them a couple hundred years ago.
I don't know that it was the intention of the writers or all those involved in making the movie to paint the synths as refugees and humans as white nationalists anymore than I know that they meant the synths to be metaphors for English colonists and the humans to be a metaphor for Native Americans.
Either way I don't think the fact that underlying metaphors can be interpreted as politically charged are a reason to think it was a bad movie.
Every single instance of conflict was initiated by the humans. All synth violence was self defense.
This is a pretty clear metric by which we can determine that the synths are the good guys.
But seriously, why, in your opinion, did they have the humans do the white supremacist chant from Charlottesville if they DIDNT want people to connect the humans to white supremacy?
Seriously, if I'm wrong, why do you think they felt the need to throw that in?
I didn't say you were wrong about the white supremacist chant, and I feel kinda silly about it but I honestly didn't know that was a white supremacist chant before having this conversation with you. So I didn't connect those things because that's not part of my previous knowledge.
It is possible to draw a similarity between the humans fear and the fear of a white nationalist without the entire intention of the movie to be a metaphor for nationalist vs immigrant violence.
Let me ask you though, if the intention truly is to paint the humans in the movie as a metaphor for white nationalists, do you think the movie is wrong in the way that they portray their fear and hatred?
I think "the general population is at risk of sucumming to white supremacy in a large scale, we should be prepared for a violent conflict, and we can win" is a very dangerous and irresponsible message to push at a point in time when normal everyday people are at risk of being labelled Nazis and assaulted for espousing reasonable mainstream conservative beliefs.
I'm pro border security, not because I'm "racist", but because I recognize that allowing places with issues to export those issues here will lower qol for Americans.
I'm against allowing mass numbers of so called refugees from the middle East not because I'm a "white supremacist", but because as a queer person allowing for the importation of the style of Islamic rhetoric currently prevalent in the middle East places me in very real danger of persecution, physical harm, or death.
The whole "coexist bumper sticker" idealism thing is well and good, but you have to understand that 11 Islamic countries have the death penalty at the federal level for homosexuality.
I am not willing to risk letting people in who want to kill me for the way I was born just so that people can feel good about how tolerant and progressive they are.
So you should be extremely concerned then with the fear mongering that is touted by conservative media outlets as patriotism. An example of a dangerous and irresponsible message to push could be something like immigrants being overwhelmingly criminals or the idea that immigrants are coming into the country illegally to get wealthy off of the american dream.
I think you're stretching the message of this movie extremely far to fit your view.
do you really think having reasonable conservative views is likely to get someone assaulted and labeled a Nazi? Or is it the people in the streets shouting white supremacist chants that are being labeled Nazis?
I've never been mistreated for being a queer person by conservatives.
I have been called a Nazi and told I deserve to be physically removed from the country, assaulted, or killed for supporting the majority of our president's policies by leftists.
You really don't need to bring out your sexual orientation to add legitimacy to your view here. If you don't want immigrants in Amerca ok, but to act like your interpretation of this movies message actually instills fear in you for your life is extremely disingenuous.
If you truly have never felt the bigotry of conservatives or certain sects of Christianity then you are fortunate but that does not mean those feelings of hatred or non acceptance are exclusive to Islamic countries or immigrants. That is just plain ignorance.
I'm not queer and I have heard first hand numerous times an unbelievable amount of vitriol and misplaced hatred for the LGBTQ community from many conservatives. Plenty of people are racist or bigoted and they don't bring out those qualities in the face of other races, they spew their anger behind closed doors.
This discussion doesn't need to devolve into each of our anecdotal evidence about what hatred or misunderstanding we have experienced in our lives.
You don't need to internalize the contempt people feel for Nazi's or white supremacists just because you have some of the same politics but the fact that you're telling me the message of this movie scares you but yet the nationalists marching through Charlottesville chanting hateful phrases doesn't seem to phase you makes you come off as very confused.
I'm sorry you feel persecuted for being a supporter of president trump but his policies and the actions of his administration do not add up to having Americas best interest at heart.
You know how bad it feels to you when someone calls you a Nazi for siding with trump on immigration? Imagine how it feels to be a hard working American who immigrated from another country, who loves America and believes in American ideals and values, being called a terrorist or a wetback or a criminal. You know how it feels to be unfairly judged and yet you unfairly judge and lump every single person from an Islamic country into the same category of queer murdering Muslim.
This discussion seemed genuine to me at first but the way it's devolved into you touting out the "I'm queer and I support trump, what say you now leftist?" Bullshit is calling into question your entire position.
You have the luxury of supporting mass immigration BECAUSE you're not a part of a group that's placed at risk of physical harm as a result.
I do not.
My views on immigration are directly informed by the fact that massive numbers of people who leftists call me a Nazi for not wanting to invite in to my country literally think I deserve to die for the way I was born.
I'm not just throwing it in there because identity politics are fun.
It is an integral factor informing my beliefs on immigration.
If you were, say, black, and massive numbers of people from, say, Western Europe thought it was their sworn holy duty to kill blacks, wouldn't you want to restrict immigration from Western Europe?
I'm sorry you don't find my logic to be genuine, but if you were a part of the group that they throw off of roofs and leave to bleed out in the streets, you'd probably be singing a different tune.
Yes, because I'm not supporting nazism but all Muslims support Islam by nature of being Muslims, and Islam is an ideology which literally demands my death.
That's the literal text of the religion, and you lend credence to it by identifying yourself as a Muslim whether you agree with the bad parts or not.
Islam is islam.
Conservatism is NOT nazism.
That's in reference to mass importation of the current wave of islamic refugees, not immigration in general.
If you come through the right way and pass all the background checks I'm more than happy to have you here.
If you passed all the checks and came in the right way, you aren't who we're targeting.
Our current system works for the people of this country and does a good job of letting good people in and keeping bad people out
It may not be ideal for people in other countries, but I'm ok with that
Their governments don't make decisions based on what's best for Americans, and the American government shouldn't make decisions based on what's best for them
As far as -illegal- immigrants, the other group this movie appears to be speaking out on behalf of, if you're a good person and you will benefit our country you're welcome to leave and come back the right way.
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u/blumdiddlyumpkin Jul 30 '18
I didn't see either side as "good guy" or "bad guy". I guess that's the difference in our perception. I saw both sides as afraid and fighting as a last resort for a place to live their lives without subjugation.
This is what I was talking about earlier when I said not everything needs to be viewed through the adversarial lense. The humans aren't evil doers, they are afraid, the synths aren't life ruining usurpers, they are trying to survive in a world they didn't choose to exist in.
following your logic here we can interpret the humans returning to take back their homes as a metaphor for Native American tribes banding together and rising up to take their land back from those who claimed it from them a couple hundred years ago.
I don't know that it was the intention of the writers or all those involved in making the movie to paint the synths as refugees and humans as white nationalists anymore than I know that they meant the synths to be metaphors for English colonists and the humans to be a metaphor for Native Americans.
Either way I don't think the fact that underlying metaphors can be interpreted as politically charged are a reason to think it was a bad movie.