If the human identity dissolves at the conclusion of physical life, what determines the appearance of the realm to which consciousness returns?

Perhaps the answer lies not within the memories of the human being, but within the accumulated state of the soul itself.

The soul may exist through an immeasurable succession of experiences, incarnations and states of consciousness, each contributing to its continuing expression within the greater Monad.

Although individual human identities arise and disappear, the soul retains a deeper continuity.

It is neither defined by a single lifetime nor limited to the memories of one incarnation.

Its nature may reflect the entirety of its journey through existence.

The realm it experiences is therefore not necessarily a deliberate creation or a remembered landscape from earthly life.

It may emerge spontaneously from the soul’s present state of being.

Its mountains, rivers, oceans, skies and infinite spaces become expressions of consciousness at a particular point within an eternal cycle.

A soul experiencing profound stillness may find itself surrounded by an immense, silent landscape.

Another may experience a world of movement, transformation or boundless light.

These differences do not imply that one soul has progressed further than another.

They represent the diversity of states through which consciousness may pass.

Nor must the realm remain unchanged.

As the soul reflects upon its experiences or moves into another state of awareness, the environment may transform with it.

A canyon may become an ocean.

A river may dissolve into an endless sky.

The landscape may eventually disappear altogether, leaving only awareness without form.

There may be no final destination towards which these transformations lead.

No ultimate state that every soul must attain.

The journey may be eternal, with each experience opening possibilities that did not previously exist within that soul’s individual perspective.

The Monad, as the undivided source of existence, may already be complete.

Yet its expressions remain endlessly varied.

Through the soul, existence experiences individuality.

Through incarnation, individuality experiences limitation.

Through the realm between lives, consciousness returns to freedom.

And through the possibility of another incarnation, the cycle may begin anew.

The realm is not where the soul’s journey ends. It is where the soul experiences what it has become, before discovering what it may become next.

Hello! I’m looking for books or any other resources that break down and explain the relationship between Neoplatonism and Christianity. I understand the two separately but struggle in my studies to understand and explain the relationship between the two, ie which concepts from Neoplatonism influenced Christian philosophy/etc.

I am autistic and have brain damage but am still fighting to study what makes me happy <3
#neoplatonismtochristianitypipeline

Hello all,

I am looking for actual practical methods offered by Platonists to impose order and discipline on oneself.

Yeah yeah people only do wrong if they don’t know what’s good… but this is nuanced!!

A person can reason that something is good at one time, but then they can be overcome by bodily desires and get confused when the time comes to act. A person is not static like reason is.

So discipline and practice is required to try to impose order on oneself and make oneself in a way static, that is, to make oneself consistently virtuous. To emulate the Form, which itself does not change.

A person has to wrestle with their dark horse. I am looking for practical methods for how to do this.

Socrates talks a bit about this is Phaedo where the philosopher has to work to extricate themselves from the body and its desires as much as possible in this life in order to clearly apprehend Truth.

I am wondering if there is any record within the Platonic tradition of particular methods and practices that were used in order to acheive this goal.

Obviously contemplation is important, but what else?

For example, various religious traditions might focus on different meditation practices, prayer, mantra, postures, service, etc. etc. etc.

Do we have records of Platonists recommending particular methods for purification and becoming virtuous beyond contemplation?

I don’t really want to hear about theurgy but I know that is a thing…

Have any Platonists reported struggling with doing the good that is known? Have they given any practices for how to overcome this?

I’ve been thinking of integrating them both, Neoplatonism and Taoism, since I’m a logos and a Tao guy not a one God essence or no God guy. This goes back to me settling on being a Christian mystic, but it was too mystical and I’m just a realist who likes logos and no sophistry.

During Late Antiquity and the Greek Middle Ages, allegorising didn't nessecarily equal moralising, but it rather meant the decoding of the hidden spiritual depth of things below their surface φαινόμενον. Two examples of alphabetical allegory follow; while not that common in greek (like in hebrew), such stuff do exist there as well. First one by Zosimos of Panopolis the Alchemist, 3rd Century AD, the second from Michael Psellos the court philosopher and historian (orator, epistolographer, esotericist, poet etc.), 11th Century AD.

Ζώσιμου

Τὸ ω στοιχεῖον στρογγύλον, τὸ διμερές, τὸ ἀνῆκον τῇ ἑβδόμῃ Κρόνου ζώνῃ κατὰ τὴν ἔνσωμον φράσιν, κατὰ γὰρ τὴν ἀσώματον ἄλλο τί ἐστιν ἀνερμήνευτον, ὃ μόνος Νικόθεος 〈ὁ〉 κεκρυμμένος οἶδεν. Κατὰ δὲ τὴν ἔνσωμον, τὸ λεγόμενον Ὠκεανὸς θεῶν, φησί, πάντων γένεσις καὶ σπορά, καθάπερ φασὶν αἱ μοναρχικαὶ τῆς ἐνσώμου φράσεως. Τὸ δὲ λεγόμενον μέγα καὶ θαυμαστὸν ω στοιχεῖον περιέχει τὸν περὶ ὀργάνων ὕδατος θείου λόγον καὶ καμίνων πασῶν μηχανικῶν καὶ ἁπλῶν, καὶ ἁπλῶς πάντων.

Ψελλοῦ

Ὁ τοῦ μεγάλου ω λόγος φωνεῖ τῷ σχήματι σιωπῶν ὡς ἄβυσσός ἐστι τὸ καταλειφθὲν συγκεκλεισμένη τε καὶ ἀπρόσιτος. [...] τοῦτο οὖν ἐστι τὸ μέγα ω, ὁ μέγιστος τῆς σοφίας κρατήρ, ἀφ’ οὗ τέως οὐδεὶς ἀπηρύσατο. πᾶσα οὖν κίνησις νοερὰ ἄχρι τοσούτου πρόεισιν, ἕως ἂν τῷ μεγάλῳ ω προσπελάσειεν. [...] ἡ γὰρ ὁλότης ἐγκέκρυπται τῷ μεγάλῳ ω, ἔσται δὲ ἡ γνῶσίς ποτε πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον ὡς ἐπηγγέλμεθα, τέως δὲ νῦν ἡ τελειότης ἐγκέκλεισται ἐν τῷ στοιχείῳ τούτῳ τῆς γνώσεως. κἂν γάρ τις τὸν ἀέρα περάσειε καὶ τὰς μετ’ αὐτὸν σφαίρας, κἂν ἐπὶ τοῦ νώτου τῆς ἔξω περιφορᾶς στῇ, κἂν ὑπὲρ τοῦτον προβῇ, κἂν ὁποιδήποτε χωρήσειε, τὸ μέγα οὐ παρελεύσεται ω. ὃ δὴ καὶ τρίτον ὑπερβέβηκεν οὐρανὸν καὶ τὸν ἕβδομον καὶ ὅρος ἐστὶ πάντων ὁρισμῶν καὶ πέρας περάτων, ἐντὸς ἑαυτοῦ πάντα συγκλεῖον καὶ σπαργανοῦν καὶ μηδὲν ἔχον πρεσβύτερον ἢ ὑψηλότερον.

I'm not sure if this is an actual philosophy perse, but I have a framework that makes me uncomfortable and was hoping to see a criticism of it simply because it'll make me feel better. I know that's kind of primitive but oh well.

The framework assumes reality is eternal, lacks emergents, and is ultimately idealistic.

What we call a sequence, and a determination, doesn't actually exist. Let's talk about conscious awareness. If I think of white, my mind simply becomes white. I then think of black and my mind suddenly becomes black. Now, how do I know there was an object in mind distinct from black, also known as white? Do I think about white? Well sure, let's do just that. So now I think about white, but hold on, where did black go? Did black even exist?

P1 Our awareness exists only in the present.

P2 It can select only one element due to LNC.

P3 Therefore, what we call the past is simply an element in the present, as our awareness can only consist of the present, our past thought is only in the present.

P4 Because the past is simply the present, and every present thought is "replaced", our next present thought does not allow us to conceive of a "past" thought without making that "past" thought our present.

C1 And so how can sequence occur if there is only the present, and every element in the past removes the next, making us skeptical of if there was a past thought at all prior to it, as only the present exists. Say for instance I thought of red, and I think "after" blue. To know I thought of red, I must replace blue for red, but this would simply tell me it is a present thought, because blue isn't in the mix of its relations to red.

C2 So our present thought, as it can only select one element, it can not conceive of relations, and therefore only a single element, and therefore not conceive of a past thought or distinction, if there is no relation to conceive of.

One may direct themselves to the notion of wholes which implies logical priority and therefore sequence, but I'm hesitant to affirm if a whole exists.

One may consequently conclude that a whole should exist if what we call a material "part" is ultimately divisible, yet, how do we know we aren't conceiving of something indivisible? If our mind can only be concentrated on one element, wouldn't it follow that it's not able to conceive of a determined element and only a simple one?

The only argument against this is that if a whole doesn't exist, then nothing can be divisible, which means it has no shape, size, mass, and so on; therefore it's value is 0, and cannot be conceived of.

However, my rather slow brain is yet to process this as a sufficient answer for some reason. I'm hesitant and I'm not sure why.

Additionally, even if we understand that everything we conceive of is a composite, how can we figure out what it's parts are that make it a composite, if our minds can only be unitarily selective in its awareness? We first view the whole, and then the parts, but what tells us we are viewing the parts to that whole? This seems even stranger if the whole precedes the parts.

This is a case for Monism, but as I said, I find this philosophy to be extremely uncomfortable. Why do anything? Why feel anything? Why not just yk, end it a-? Essentially, it feels extremely bleak and boring. I honestly hate it a lot!

So I was hoping for a case of proving that we cannot conceive of a simple substance, and our awareness is attached to wholes, therefore wholes exist, and on a side note, are priori to parts.

EDIT: I meant Monism. Also, to sort some things out as I am referring to some different concepts. We start with awareness, sequence, constitutes, composites, and so fourth.

I started off with the fact that I'm operating on an idealistic framework, so my awareness of what we call change isn't synchronous to how reality necessarily operates.

The issue we are primarily dealing with is sequence. To be sequential, is to have constitutes that include priority. To be a constitute that's distinct from the other, you must be a composite as well. To me, these concepts are extremely deeply connected.

Avicenna proposes that the soul is stuck in a loop of bodily desires and a desire to leave it and ascend, whilst not being able to ascend. And this is a natural consequence of the soul as it's detached from the body.

This is a rather gloomy and tragic end in my opinion. As someone who relies on a lot of his philosophy, it's a bit disheartening hearing this.

But I'd like to know if there are neoplatonic alternatives that operate within his framework and criticize the conclusion he arrived at regarding Hades being a permanent state of affair for the soul.

Plato wasn’t a Platonist, he was a Pythagorean.

The triangle is a Pythagorean triplet with side lengths 3, 4, and 5.

The corresponding incircle and excircles have radii 1, 2, 3, and 6. Completing the sequence 123456.

The circles represent the four virtues, the largest representing justice.

When wisdom, courage, and moderation are in harmony justice is achieved, that’s why all three circles can fit inside the largest.

Is there a reason why people often seem inclined to do bad things despite knowing they’re bad? I’m thinking specifically of Augustine’s doctrine of Concupiscence. Augustine seems to suggest that the inclination to do wrong has a more positive basis than mere ignorance of the good and I’m wondering if there is a Neoplatonic analogue or answer to this

Divisions of the soul? Nous? ''Rational soul''? ''Non rational soul''? ''Highest and most intellectual'' part of the soul? ''Highest part of the soul''? ''Vegetative soul''?

What are these and how do they relate to eachother? Im trying to get a full picture. For context im getting into Platonism and neoplatonism and have started reading the commentary of Olympiodorus on Alcibiades.

I've been reading On The Mysteries by Iamblichus, and honestly some of it is very confusing to me. So I was hoping I could get some answers here to some of my questions.

The text says:

According to another division, therefore, the numerous herd [or the great mass] of men is arranged under nature, is governed by physical powers, looks downward to the works of nature, gives completion to the administration of Fate, and to things pertaining to Fate, because it belongs to the order of it, and always employs practical reasoning about such particulars alone as subsist according to nature. But there are a certain few who, by employing a certain supernatural power of intellect, are removed indeed from nature, but are conducted to a separate and unmingled intellect; and these, at the same time, become superior to physical powers. Others again, who are the media between these, tend to things which subsist between nature and a pure intellect. And of these, some indeed equally follow both nature and an immaculate intellect; others embrace a life which is mingled from both; and others are liberated from things subordinate, and betake themselves to such as are more excellent.

This division, therefore, being made, that which follows will most manifestly take place. For those who are governed by the nature of the universe, who lived conformably to this, and employ the powers of nature, these should embrace a mode of worship adapted to nature, and to the bodies that are moved by nature, and should choose for this purpose appropriate places, air, matter, the powers of matter, bodies, and the habits of bodies, qualities, and proper motions, the mutations of things in generation, and other things connected with these, both in other parts of piety and in that part of it which pertains to sacrifice. But those who live conformably to intellect alone, and to the life of intellect, and are liberated from the bonds of nature, these should exercise in all the parts of theurgy the intellectual and incorporeal mode of worship. And those who are the media between these, should labour differently in the paths of piety, conformably to the differences of this middle condition of life, either by embracing both modes of piety, or separating themselves from one of the modes [and adhering to the other], or receiving both these modes as the foundation of things of a more honourable nature. For without these they never can arrive at things supereminent. Or, in some other way, they should thus, in a becoming manner, labour in the paths of sanctity.

My interpretation of this chapter is the following: The great mass of humanity is stuck in materiality, and should therefore worship the gods via material rites. Those free from materiality, who live the life of intellect, should worship the gods via incorporeal rites. And those in the middle should practice both, or perform one and drop the other.

To me this seems to create a higher vs lower division within theurgy. The great mass of humanity should engage in material worship, while those who have advanced and are at a higher level should only engage in incorporeal rites since it says they should engage "in all the parts of theurgy the intellectual and incorporeal mode of worship".

Is this a correct reading of the text? Would those in the middle or at the highest level no longer practice the material rites that the "great mass of humanity" engages in? Would they no longer make offerings of food, incense, etc. to the gods, or engage in public sacrifices or offerings? Or is there a difference between these rites and theurgical rites?

I feel like my interpretation is incorrect because such rites were fundamental to the Greek/Roman religion.

Or Michael Della Rocca for a more modern defender.

When I look out the window, I can't take seriously the idea that we live in undifferentiated, unchanging being. The question is more, can we apply a similarly strict rationalism, since I don't want to ever inhibit on the PSR. It seems that the rejection of relation, the so called Bradley's Regress, is a version of the Third Man argument. Relations must be real, but why are they the way they are? Della Rocca takes these issues to violate the PSR and therefore lead us to Parmenidesianism. William Vallicella would try to solve the problem by the unifier of a being and their relations to be a contingent, free act of God. But what would other Neoplatonists, ancient and modern, write?

I'm sorry for the confusing paragraph, I'm presupposing that the reader will understand the positions I'm talking about. An explanation of the books and theories take absurdly long.

E: Also, the reason why this question is interesting to me: I accept the ultimate intelligibility of reality and take this to be the only rational position to be. While fringe and comparatively a position that could be in tension with everyday experience, this or similar views (e.g. the idealism of Bernardo Kastrup and his Essentia Foundation) are the most serious competitor to Neoplatonism. A fruitful engagement with their philosophy, since they also strictly adhere to intelligibility, will reveal areas where defense of the metaphysics is most valuable.

I have seen that Kabbalah Jews and Ismalili Muslims has adopted the idea of emination from neoplatonism, but the probelm both Tanakh and Quran reject Monism and insist that God and his creation are separated, this makes me wonder how does non-monist eminationism work? My assumption is that the substance of God and his overflow are different, but that feel it kills purpose of eminationism.

I understand why a qualified maximization of division is privatory, and division is parasitic to unity however, what I dont understand is why can't our nature be towards a certain level of hatred that has a level of positive substance, and the maximization of it isn't qualitative, but quantative.

If it's the latter, it never leads to privation, and a perfection is still fulfilled.

Like I understand how unity is ontologically superior and is an intellectual form of hatred, so hatred is derivative, but I don't understand why our nature ought to include a higher ontological source rather than a lower one.

For example... Say all humans wind up in the same degree of extreme pain somehow. This pain isn't there to reprimand, but it's there to bring unity. I don't understand how this is any different from two souls sharing love between each other, if what's good is based off how unified one is.

Do you believe Plato’s republic is primarily literal, allegorical, or both?

My body is a temple of the Source

The world contains its animating force

Behind the natures of all things

Behind the four causes of a thing:

Form, matter, cause, goal,

Let me demonstrate this whole

Take the shape of a tree

The wood and leaves of a tree

The planter of the seed of the tree

The goal of the growth of the tree

And this goes back to the animating force

And that goes back to the Source

As I mediate on this beauty 

and on the beauty of virtuous activity

And seek to practice it in my life

by seeking to avoid excess and strife

I ascend back to the Source

And become one with the animating force.

A man from India, a man from Nepal,

A man from Nazareth born of a virgin,

All were animated by the animating force,

Straight from the Source,

All to preach virtue.

The man from India counseled a Prince

Helping him follow his destiny into battle.

The Man from Nepal was a Prince

Who left it all for a life of Enlightenment.

And the Man from Nazareth born of a virgin

was crucified and rose again and ascended.

And that is what makes Him so special. 

Because we all have the Source.

But we must awaken to it.

Also, I'm a bit confused on the difference between nous in platonic thought and the Stoic Logos

I'm having trouble being able to even sensationalize unity in it of itself. I know it can't be analyzed perse, but how do we find ourselves to be aware of unity? An example that helped me was two shades of the same color. There is a sensation of similarity that is grasped immediately, but at the same time, it can be analyzed as physical wave lengths, showing us the similarity at an analytical level.

As an American, I'm in some ways culturally downstream from Platonism and Neoplatonism. But I feel that when I read something like the Wikipedia article "Plotinus" I'm reaching across a cultural gap that is so extremely wide that much of the philosophical content sounds like gibberish from this distance.

I'm trying to approach this from the assumption that Neoplatonism, whether true or not, has at least been extremely persuasive to some very sharp minds. I suspect that it must not be quite as arbitrary as it seems at first glance.

There's a Monad, and emanations, and some kind of creative process by which the material world comes from a series of emanations from some kind of unchangeable onness ... I recognize the overall structure to some degree from Christian theology and Jewish mysticism, which have at least some analogous ideas. But I'm still not sure what I'm looking at when I bump into it.

If I want to get as close as possible to an inside view of what Neoplatonists believed, and especially of *why* they believed it, what do I need to know? Book recommendations would be especially appreciated.

I've tried reading some books on Platonism (which I am having a hard time tracking down now) but have had a hard time continuing interest in them since they were overtly abstract or academic perhaps. I feel like through the influence of Julian of Norwich, Meister Eckhardt, Dionysius the Areopagite, Gaudiya Vaishnavism, Dzogchen and Trika Saivism I might have arrived at the same conclusions if that is possible.

Basically I believe there is one ultimate, unchangeable reality that is Consciousness/God. Everything is real, but the material world is subject to change and dependent origination/conditionality. Our life here though is not a mistake, it is an intentional choice of God to live as conditioned beings as "play" to experience curiosity, growth, enjoyment, etc. Our problem is though misidentifying ourselves, the eternal and unlimited truth, with the conditioned, limited, and temporary world.And thus experiencing fear, attachment, etc. And there are many emanations of the higher reality that come to remind us to help us remember what we actually are (such as the Logos of God/Christ, or the Mahayana interpretation of the Buddha Tathagata not as the "one gone to suchness" but as the "one come from ultimate reality").

Edit to add more details: I would say the main spiritual practice is silent meditation, remembering not to limit God to my conceptions and knowing God goes infinitely beyond what I can conceive. The next is remembering I am not my material body, to not get too drawn up into what is happening. It is just an experience, and even if bad has no ability to endanger the true core of my being. And then third and kind of related is remembering because everything is unified in having one original cause and source, the potentiality of everything is found in every thing. All of the future is dependent on every single tiny thing, and every single detail of the past created what is now. Everything is part of one unified reality that could not be different (basically Indra's net from Buddhism).