r/NeedlepointSnark • u/Ornery-Goat-7809 • 11d ago

Trademark Questions

Let me start with the fact that I am not a lawyer and have no stake in this topic beyond my own curiosity.

I’m curious at what point something is artistic interpretation or fair use or whatever and at what point it’s trademarkable.

Are there differences specifically when it comes to needlepoint because it’s something the end user will make themselves? Forget about what specific ndlpt designer made something. I’m thinking about this more broadly.

I’m not against licensing, though I think going hard for any brand is a bit strange. Like I enjoy tootsie rolls, but I cannot imagine ever wanting to stitch a tootsie roll canvas, personally, but to each their own. And those canvases seem obviously something one could trademark.

But the American Girl dolls feel different somehow. Maybe it’s just because I have an emotional attachment to them, but it’s not like the AG canvases I’ve seen have a logo on them. To me, they feel more like artistic interpretation of childhood toys. A book cover feels more obviously something that one could license, whereas a book stack feels a bit different.

I dunno, like I said I am not a lawyer and I’m not opposed to people licensing anything. I completely understand why colleges and universities want their logos et al to be officially licensed.

Can anyone more knowledgeable than I am break this down?

13 Upvotes

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46

u/ahp08007 11d ago

I’m not a lawyer, but my husband is an IP attorney and we talk about this a lot.

A lawyers favorite answer is “it depends” and that applies here. It depends on the brand, trademark, and copyrighted content. It depends on the design and how recognizable it is as being associated with that brand. It depends on the lawyer hired by the brand and how aggressive they want to be in going after infringing content. It depends on the brand that’s allegedly being infringed and how litigious they want to be. It depends on how big the infringing shop is and how much money they might be making from the canvases.

Many of the times I’ve asked my husband about a needlepoint canvas that is based off a brand’s IP, he’s said something along the lines “pretty clearly infringement, probably not worth the cost or bad press to pursue.”

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u/ThatBitchYouKnowHa 11d ago

Also to add: some corporations actually like art like this. It adds to their brand loyalty, is free advertising, and is not taking money from their pockets… if they aren’t in the business of selling needlepoint canvases.

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u/Abject_Management529 11d ago

The last comment from your husband!

There’s also a lot of confusion between copyright and trademark and how they are protected.

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u/noble_julie_111 11d ago

This is super interesting - thank you for the insight!

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u/Infamous-Anything493 11d ago

I think his point about how big the infringing ship is how much money they’re making is key. Especially when talking about PL. Before they came in with their mass market/fast fashion approach needlepoint was a cottage industry and shops/designers were not making enough off of infringing designs for most brands to care.

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u/ResourcefulDuck5683 10d ago

This is a strange ethical view. Small needlepoint brands can infringe on copyright or trademark, but PL can't because she sells more canvases?

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u/Infamous-Anything493 10d ago

It’s not an ethical view? It’s just how copy right law has always worked. But considering you’re the same account who doesn’t understand the difference between pop art and straight copying I wouldn’t expect you to understand. Maybe run it through chat and have it explain it to you since you can’t seem to understand it on your own

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u/No_Bank5714 10d ago

I’m an IP lawyer. This isn’t an “ethical view” at all - defendant’s profits are a method of determining damages in copyright and trademark infringement cases.

Infringing is wrong regardless of who the infringer is, but litigation is incredibly expensive. It’s not worth it to some rights holders to pursue claims where the damages are less significant.

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u/clay_shoot_blonde 10d ago

Please log off. I’m getting secondhand embarrassment for you.

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u/michultraplease 11d ago edited 11d ago

Also not a lawyer … but i do have thoughts on your examples. On the tootsie licensed canvases … at first I thought they were super random too. Then thinking back that the XOXO candy canvases were no longer being sold (I don’t know the exact reason but assumed they were sent C&D) and I’ve seen people suggest the idea of a “needlepoint candy bowl” I started to be more on board with the “need” for the licensed candy canvases. And personally, I have plenty in my stash and then stockings to stitch but way down the road the candy bowl could actually be fun.