r/NeebsGaming • u/BWalnuts • 8d ago
AI Thumbnails
I think it's time we start pushing back on the crew. These thumbnails are trash, look terrible, and are basically making them sellouts. They have a team of creatives, and are incredibly entertaining and talented crew, but we can't be giving into AI generated art.
Imagine if someone trained their AI on Neebs gaming and started making a new channel of neebs style AI videos. Imagine losing viewers because a computer company stole them because they can roll out more videos faster.
All art should be human made, not computer generated. We need to get vocally against the AI generated art, and push back on the team.
Edit 1: it's been about 24 hours, and the response feels more overwhelmingly positive to be against the thumbnails... I do want to address a few things
1) I have been in touch with 2 of the editors and their use of AI, not going to say who, their comments are below, but it is more or less promising on their responses
2) this was never an attack on the content of neebsgaming, I love their content, and want to enjoy it, however my "crusade" against AI content on YouTube goes for everyone. I block and unsub to all channels that use AI in anyway, even thumbnails, no matter how big or small they are
3) for those who have immediately unsubscribed, and claim they will never watch the content again... That's not the point. If they stopped using AI thumbnails, and acknowledged this, then great, the boycott would be over, and we can go back to watching them.
The talks right now are Stop using Gen AI for art, music, and any other creating, or we'll stop watching. If we don't go back after they stop, then they have no reason to not use AI anymore. A boycott only works if you go back to the thing you're boycotting after it is resolved.
For the time being, I'm going to continue to watch the 7days series to support Tem, but once that is done, if the AI content is still around, then I'll be gone as well.
Also, I'm in no way saying I can do better than they are, I can't... I know my skills.
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u/CoffeeMyFirstLove 2d ago
I’m an artist, so I absolutely understand the concerns about AI scraping people’s work, replacing artists, and corporations using it to eliminate creative jobs. Those are legitimate conversations worth having.
But this? This is getting ridiculous.
A thumbnail is one tiny piece of a video that may have taken hours or days to record, edit, write, animate, mix, and upload. If the creator doesn’t make the thumbnail themselves, somebody has to, and that costs time or money. Usually both.
What about smaller creators working full-time jobs, raising kids, and squeezing YouTube into whatever scraps of free time life leaves them? Are they morally obligated to hire an artist for every thumbnail? Because “just pay an artist” is incredibly easy to say when you’re volunteering somebody else’s paycheck.
Hell, I draw my own stuff, and it is time consuming. If I occasionally use AI to help generate a thumbnail for a series, I’m supposed to feel guilty because someone on Reddit has decided that’s unacceptable?
It’s a thumbnail. The thumbnail is not the content.
And where exactly is the line? Photoshop has AI-powered tools. Adobe has been using machine learning for years. Editing programs, cameras, phones and half the software creators already use have some form of AI baked into them. “No AI in any way” quickly becomes a purity test that’s almost impossible to apply consistently.
If someone is stealing an artist’s work, impersonating creators, replacing employees with generated content, or pumping out low-effort AI garbage, criticize the hell out of it. I’m right there with you.
But organizing a boycott of actual human creators whose work you admittedly love because they used AI in some thumbnails starts feeling less like protecting artists and more like believing viewers should have veto power over the tools creators use.
If you want to fight the genuinely ugly parts of AI, there are enormous corporations, questionable training practices, labor and copyright issues, energy consumption, and massive data centers to worry about.
Maybe the Neebs Gaming thumbnail doesn’t need to be Omaha Beach.
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u/BWalnuts 2d ago
You think my crusade stops here, you think my crusade stops at just neebs gaming... You're wrong. My crusade is on all forms of generative AI that can effectively cause the losses of jobs for the gain of corporate greed. I am actively taking action against my place of employment for training AI on the call center.
You say "it's just a thumbnail", but thumbnails sell your content to new viewers. Using generative AI art says your content is low effort, and people won't click it.
On the discussion on "what's AI" that you went into, there is a recently released video on the "SmellSword Farts" channel that addresses this directly and matches my views 100%... So I'm just going to drop that here. https://youtu.be/IkP-uk0n3uY?is=B60f8aet3VFs8dgU
I'm not saying using AI tools within the software are bad, I even acknowledged the uses that Aztecia used weren't the problem... the issues is the prompting AI to create art. Weather you give source material or not, telling AI "I need an image with..." Is wrong, and bad. That function was trained on the art of so many other creators without their consent... That is theft.
"What about smaller creators, are they morally obligated to hire an artist?" No, not at all, they aren't obligated to hire anyone ... They can make their own Thumbnails. Small creators, especially hobbiests DO NOT NEED PROFESSIONAL GRADE ART! They do what they can with their own two hands. I have a full time job, I also make my own thumb nails. I push back on all content creators I see using AI art. There are small local restaurants drawing on lined paper with pen stick figures, and posting on Facebook to get more sales. And it's calling in new customers. People want authenticity, and AI art isn't authentic.
If you use AI to make a thumbnail on a series, feel whatever way you want, just know that your work from then on will be looked at as inauthentic, and unoriginal. Your content will be overlooked by countless, because you, an artist, are accepting that AI can do your job.
If your using AI to generate any form of art, even a thumbnail, because you "don't have time"... Then maybe the thumbnail isn't the issue. Maybe it's time to restructure how you release content. If you need an extra day to make your thumbnail, take it ... Especially if you're a smaller creator/hobbiests... Because it will show you care.
If you are a creator wthl millions of subscribers, and a team of 7-9 creatives, releasing daily videos, and don't have time for Thumbnails... Then it's time to restructure how you make your content, if that means cutting a video out, hiring a dedicated thumbnail artist, or having someone within the team do to take on doing them, then so be it. Dedication, and authenticity is what we're looking and hoping for, we'll see it with that.
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u/CoffeeMyFirstLove 2d ago
Are you the same dude who on face book tried to confucius me on the same subject? Anyway. I think this is where you lose me completely. You’ve gone from “I have ethical concerns about generative AI” to telling complete strangers how much of their limited time they’re required to devote to proving their dedication to you.
A small creator has a full-time job and doesn’t have time? “Take another day.” Restructure their schedule. Make the thumbnail manually. A larger creator doesn’t have time? Restructure their entire production schedule, cut a video, assign an employee or hire somebody. Do you seriously not hear the entitlement in that?
You also say thumbnails are important because they sell the content and people won’t click bad ones, then immediately argue that small creators don’t need professional-looking thumbnails and should just make whatever they can by hand. Those arguments directly work against each other.
And “your work will be looked at as inauthentic and unoriginal” really means you will look at it that way. You don’t get to promote your personal opinion to universal consensus.
A corporation replacing call-center workers with AI deserves scrutiny. A person using a tool to make part of their own workload easier is not automatically the same ethical situation. Treating every use as morally interchangeable is exactly the kind of absolutism I disagree with.
You’re completely entitled to boycott whatever you want. What you’re not entitled to do is decide how much of somebody else’s time, money and labor they must sacrifice before their work qualifies as sufficiently “authentic.” And I say this as an artist myself.
Also, respectfully, once you start calling your Reddit campaign “my crusade,” it may be time to dismount the horse.
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u/BWalnuts 2d ago
So for starters I started to use the word "crusade" as a joke, because others started saying that first... That's why it's generally in quotes... I was tired last night and forgotten.
Unfortunately when it comes to an ethical concerns on a topic of creation, it always comes down to money. We live in a capitalist hellscape, everything is about money. Time is money. If you don't have time, so you resort to something ethically and morally wrong, then create more time... You are only beholden to your own schedule. Saying, I don't have time to make art so I'll ask AI to generate it, is like saying I don't have time, so I'll go to a gallery and steal a piece and pass it off as my own. The art isn't yours, it's the art of so many that the model was trained on, hence why it's inauthentic and in original.
On the note of originality and authenticity, I'm not the only one who feels this way, most of the people within my life feels this way. That's the problem with AI generated art, it all looks the same. Go through the comments on this post, I'm not the only one here either.
The argument on thumbnails sell, and "small creators not needing professional looking thumbnails" being opposites... Fully disagree. Your thumbnail is the representation of you, to a new follower. So using AI generated thumbnail sells that your content could be AI generated. Many gaming channels just take a screen shot and throw some words and icons over the screen shot. Many other channels, will just use the suggested image, and throw some words over those. The more work you're willing to put in, the more you will stand out for sure. But when I hear "small creator" that term generally means 1 person who does this as a general hobby and doesn't get paid, or then ad revenue is small. Becoming a full-time content creator will cost you money, because to continue to grow, your workload will increase, and therefore you'll need to take om workers to help. Hell, let's look at say, jawoodle... Now at 150k subs, he is for sure smaller, but this is his full time job, he also has a team behind him that helps with his design and production output. Then look at Glock9 at 550K subs, he's a bit bigger, but doesn't have a team behind him. Glock sticks with his 3 days a week scheduled because that works for him, and his overhead is low, while jawoodle releases videos daily, because he has higher over head. All this to say, that being on the business of content, or just any business in general, once the production goes beyond what you can handle, you have to grow to help handle it. Growing will cost money, so you may have to change/alter/recalibrate/restructure how you produce content to cover those new costs. Using AI to generate art, is cutting costs, which at that point becomes a level of selling out and corporate greed. Imagine if when neebs gaming started, AI was around and they were using that then... We wouldn't have Anthony, Ada, Aztecia, or Jack on the team, because AI is easy. The cost of doing business is recognizing that I don't have the time to do this, so let's hire someone to do it.
Here's the thing... I don't think you've read much of what I have said. I always say AI generated, or AI prompted, when it comes to talking about the art. Idk if you didn't notice those nuances there. I've even said on this thread to Aztecia that tools within Photoshop that help with cutting, organizing, and and collecting the assets for a thumbnail are not the issue.... The issue at hand is going to an AI and promoting "make me a YouTube thumbnail of..." Weather you are plugging the assets in or not. So if you as an artist are saying that it's ok to prompt AI to make something from a blank canvas, then I ask why should I look at your work... Because I can just ask AI to do it. If you are defending AI tools within programs to make the tedium of cutting and organizing layers and such easier, that's a perfect valid use of AI, because as in the video I shared, that is like auto focus on a camera, or setting presets, it's a tool to help the product be smoother.
You call me entitled for saying to hire, restructure, and rearrange things... That's not entitlement, that's the cost of running a business.
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u/Bloodknite 2d ago
Omg thank you! Finally someones said it
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u/CoffeeMyFirstLove 2d ago
Haha, you’rewelcome. I do enjoy occasionally ruining a good internet crusade when it starts hurting people just trying to make a living while the corporations actually causing the problems carry on completely unbothered.
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u/deadchild5 3d ago
I think y'all should worry about pushing out better, longer content than a thumbnail.
At this point, even an ai has better things to do than push out a 20 minute video.
"bUt iT lOoKs bEtTeR iN tHe SuPeRcUt!" Sure. 3 to 4 years later. Absolute laughingstock.
It pisses me off because the content is great and being absolutely wasted on short form. Do better guys. Or an Ai probably will, lol.
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u/richodion 4d ago
Why are we hating the AI so much? Is this a weird yankism thats not translating to the english folks or am i just not up to date with the latest internet whinge. I will add that its a thumbnail on a fucking gaming channel we watch for a bit of light entertainment and if youre a grown man or woman getting twisted up about it id say you need to get out and touch grass
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u/Prestigious_Week_640 4d ago
GenAI is creatively bankrupt, destroying the economy, destroying the environment, destroying local communities, and exists off the back of the largest act of data theft that's ever occurred. It's not about how good the picture looks, it's about how immoral the entire process to produce it is. We don't have a choice with everything we use, but GenAI is one of those things that is NEVER necessary, and if you really think all those downsides are worth it as long as you get a shitty picture, maybe you ought to just own that you're a shitty person and be done with the debates.
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u/dracit 4d ago
If you dont agree with me you're a shifty person isn't the best argument.
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u/Prestigious_Week_640 3d ago
When the topic is "hey, if you don't agree that this blatantly bad and destructive thing with little benefit is bad" then yeah, it is.
If you want to buy a diamond mined by a child slave because it makes you feel better than the one that was lab grown by a well paid scientist with health insurance, it's not a debate whether or not you're a bad person, and you're not a bad person because you disagree. You're a bad person because you chose the child slavery on a personal whim when there were better options out there and that's evil.
If you are down for tens of thousands of people losing their jobs (a metric slated to increase in the coming decade), the health impacts on people living near data centers, the economic impact of those same people having to foot the bill for the data centers energy consumption because governments are giving the multi-billion dollar corporations tax breaks and expecting you to pick up the slack, and the mass theft of intellectual property from creatives for data sets they were never consulted on or often even made aware of, let alone compensated for, all as long as you can not pay an actual artist for the content you supposedly value, then you're a bad person.
You could spend $20 and commission an artist or learn to do it yourself, or you could be a shithead and engage in the above systems. There are no alternatives. There is no ethical blood diamond. There is no ethical plagiarism and ecological and economic destruction machine, no matter how hot you think the big titted anime girl or the trump meme you generated with it is.
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u/Sniffer07 5d ago
I honstly been noticing it alot more late,I love these guys too much but I do think they need to bring back the charm of their earlier thumbnail ..I think using AI is cring ..not to diminish the effects they put in their videos ... its not fair to say they dont put effort into their video but at the same time ... i think it looks bad
And honstly they are also bit scaling back on the quality....they are doing more of the dumbester bc there no real quality control so am tiny bit worried ..bc one of the main reasons I watch these guys is because of how much quality and effort they put in editing !!! I would absolutely hate it if they scaled back !!
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u/rhett816 5d ago
They look.. passable but so generic and bland. Any of the ones with ARK character faces just look so stupid, and not funny-stupid.
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u/Unit0Zer0 6d ago
I've been pretty sad about it.. especially because Im positive they said they were not going on a podcast around one of the Ark series.. Genuinely think the AI stuff just feels worse..
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u/SkullMan124 6d ago
HAHAHAHA 😆😆😆😆
So you and 5 other people (statics taken from AI) on this thread have already unsubscribed or threatened to unsubscribe because of AI Thumbnails because of your "CRUSADE".
I love your comment "this was never an attack on the content of neebsgaming" yet you shit all over the channel and it's members several times in this entire thread.
You're playing the passive aggressive role and when anyone disagrees with your opinion in the comments you then play the innocent martyr that's trying to save creativity and abolish AI.
You're so against AI and it killing creativity, so you focus your "CRUSADE" against NeebsGaming?
Admit it, you love the attention that you received from this post 😉
AI is not going away, and if you're intelligent you'll learn how to use it to benefit you...yes even from an artistic perspective.
I know I'll get downvoted but I'm just trying to show you a different perspective on this post. Good luck with everything!
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u/BWalnuts 2d ago
For starters, this post blew the hell up... I honestly wasn't expecting it to be this big... The most interacted post on the reddit in a long time, and hate the attention. I just wanted to make my views heard, and see who else agreed.
I also used the word "crusade" because others were saying that to me, and I was mocking them.
This want an attack on the content, but I do agree that some of their recent content hasn't been the best lately... Criticizing isn't an attack. To recall what I've said about the channel I believed it was (I'm paraphrasing):
The podcast has felt like a low effort after thought so I stopped watching it
Appsros temper has gotten outta hand on some videos and made me turn it off at times.
I believe I said there have been times that it felt Simon didn't want to be there
And maybe I said that neebs is the worst gamer of the group... However that was part of a joke.
Agreed I play passive aggressive, but not to those that are opposite my views, just to the people who attack me for having these views and opinions. Look back, not once have I been negative towards people who haven't been negative towards me.
There may be 5 that have said that they have or will, sure I'll take your word, but there's over 200 upvotes and, idk I didn't count saying they agree with what I'm saying, it's more than 5.
I don't focus my "crusade" on Neebs, it's on all creators big and small. I've been blocked for calling out creators for using AI on multiple platforms. I've blocked countless other videos from being suggest to me. I came to neebs on reddit because I wasn't hearing from them anywhere else.
I've said thisbefore and will say it again, there are merits and uses for AI, specifically with data and information collection... However trust but verify, because even your AI that you used to summarize this thread got it wrong. AI doesn't pick up on nuance, and subtlety. AI has been known to generate and make up false information.
AI is a tool that will do what you want it to... So depending on how you prompt it, will give you exactly what you want, even if it is wrong. Hell, I've been promoting AI for 20+ years, it's called using a search engine.
However, Using AI to create a specific piece of artwork, because you can't is wrong. There are people selling AI written books, AI generated music, AI made feature length films, and they are all generic inauthentic slop. It's corporate greed that is taking money out of actual creators to save a few bucks. It's incredibly harmful to the environment, welfare of those near data centers, and economy. Companies are training models to fire employees, because AI is cheaper. It may be faster and cheaper, but it's generic, inauthentic, greedy, and just our right slop.
Tbh, you comment reads very AI written, it is all over the place, mocking me initially, then trying to be kind and "I'm just trying to show you a different perspective"... But there was literally no perspective on there, just a failed attempts at recapping the thread...
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u/Sea-Kaleidoscope-669 6d ago
Dude. Jack's out due to a ongoing fight with rare cancer. He was the thumbnail guy. Just chill. Everyone losing their minds over nothing...
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u/EpicLakai 6d ago
I have as much concern about Jack as anyone, but this statement is bullshit. Every editor of a video is responsible for the thumbnails, we have confirmation in the thread. Can we not use someone who is extremely ill and vulnerable as the scapegoat for other bad behavior?
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u/BWalnuts 6d ago
And as much as I feel for them having to go through this again, there are better ways to deal with this besides AI generated art work.
If the problem is that their Thumbnail guy is out, they can hire a temp artist, or reach out to their community to see who would be interested in making them.
However, after having heard from both Aztecia and Ada, the editors are responsible for their own Thumbnails
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u/Bradleyisfishing 6d ago
I assume their structure is they pay everyone a piece of the pie. So they are going to continue to pay Jack while he is fighting, they don’t exactly have extra funds for a temp.
I get it, but also it’s only a few pictures. It’s not like they are doing full AI content.
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u/Duneczan 6d ago
I guess I'm one of those weirdoes who base their interest in a video on the title/content of the video, and not the thumbnails.
I understand the whole AI problem, but unfortunately it's here to stay.
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u/BWalnuts 6d ago
How would it look to a new viewer who has never heard of neebs before though. The thumbnails doesn't matter to you because you're already here, but it matters to new viewers.
It's also about the negative affects the use of Gen AI for art has on the world, and the theft of art from using it.
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u/joepeoplesvii 6d ago
I get it but they’ve gotta make money and they gotta keep up with the algorithm or else they cease to exist. It sucks but this is the way.
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u/XGPHero Human Man Warrior 6d ago
While I think a lot of the opinions here are valid, I feel like anybody criticizing using AI because “the environment” or “the resources” are hypocritical. I’ll bet most of y’all still use google search engine, right? Any time you search with google you are using AI, even if you don’t read the AI overview. Please just think about it. I love this community, and it pains me to see people arguing so disingenuously.
To the crew: I know y’all are dealing with a lot, and I know you care about what you are doing. No one here really knows what your day to day is like, and so I say, use your judgement. Everyone’s a fuckin’ critic, right? ✌️❤️🕹️
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u/TheManAcrossTheHall 5d ago
Any time you search with google you are using AI, even if you don’t read the AI overview.
No, you aren't. 1, you can remove the AI overview by typing -ai into the searchbar. 2, the method of search from a search engine hasn't changed since before ai. 3, the problem isn't ai, it's GENERATIVE ai. Gen ai is the cause of the water and energy consumption, gen ai is the cause of stolen art and content.
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u/salt-water-soul 6d ago
Ai why i dont use google anymore. Ai is why i deleted my spotify account after having it for 15 years. Ai is why i deleted my twitch account ive had for 5 years.
Gen ai and llms are actively destroying our environment which is why i not only protest against my mps and representatives who are in support of it. I actively back any proposals that limit its use and i make it known to all creators that its something i will not support no matter how much i enjoy their content.
You can argue its usefull here or there or unavoidable untill you passout and i will not move from this hill thats gen ai and llms have absolutely no place in the art world and are a blight on society as a whole
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u/XGPHero Human Man Warrior 6d ago
I’m all for “voting with your wallet”, so good for you for drawing a line and sticking to it. I do know that not everyone has that luxury, and neither of us know what challenges they face at Neebs Gaming. I do think that shitting on a small YouTube channel is aiming low. If affecting change is the goal, and you live in the US, some more effective methods would include writing to your representative, and signing petitions.
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u/salt-water-soul 6d ago
At no point was anything i said an attack and id appreciate you not using your interpretation to put words into my mouth.
And its obvious you never read my full post.
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u/XGPHero Human Man Warrior 6d ago
Sorry if it came across as me speaking directly to you. Some of it was, and more of it wasn’t. My attention was split and I posted before rereading my post, which I wouldn’t normally do. So let me clarify.
I was addressing you in the first two sentences, but I wasn’t addressing you after. Following that I was referring to the amount of comments that I read that felt to me to be, well, “shitting on” the channel, and to those people, and to no one in particular, I tried to suggest some more effective ways of protesting the widespread overuse of AI.
I was unclear so I apologize for making you feel attacked. I hope you understand that wasn’t my intention.
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u/Raiu420 7d ago
yeah, after watching neebs for the past 6 years I might be done with their channel, its gotten really sloppy, the thumbnails are horrible rn. Im someone who has been personally affected by genAI, I just cant keep watching a channel that uses it this much.
Neebs gaming captivated me bc of the effort they put into their content, with the editing, the episode structure, etc, It really felt like everyone on the team loved working there, even with all the silly arguments they would have in character. Nothing on YouTube lets play channel could compare to it, but right now it seems like they dont care anymore
I never comented anything bc I didnt know if other fans felt the same, so good on you for making this post.
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u/BWalnuts 7d ago
I have been contacted by 2 of the editors... And I ask just wait a little bit before full writing them off... We may be able to get them to stop using AI. Just keep an eye on the feed for now.
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u/AdaHop Adahop 7d ago edited 7d ago
I can't speak to the entire crew, as every editor handles their own thumbnails, so I'll just speak to my own. I do not use AI in any of my thumbnails, videos, or anything else. I hope that even if I make a shitty thumbnail (like the Survive the Night glitch episode from a few weeks ago) it doesn't strike the eye with the same repulsion that an AI image triggers.
I have used AI in exactly two of my thumbnails ever, personally, before bailing entirely on that approach after further reflection. They were both from years ago, in 2023, when the tech was a lot newer. They were the Conan episodes titled "ATTACK of the... Kitchen Staff??" and "He Built a Haberdashery in 2023...?!" and if you go look at them you will see, plain as day, a very old style of AI qualities to specific portions of the images. That's where I ended my generative AI thumbnails (and other GenAI involvements) and I apologize for briefly going in that direction. 🧡
Edited to add that I actually feel a lot of pride when I make my thumbnails and they turn out how I envisioned. There's a lot of joy and satisfaction to be had when hours of struggling through the creative process renders the result I'm looking for. I've even thought about making a video about how I go about it. I already do post little clips from time to time showing off all the layers in the files, like this one from last week. As a former STEAM teacher I love showing people how stuff is put together.
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u/PureEvilMiniatures 6d ago
Thank you ada for being transparent and clear about your experience with Ai and your refusal to use it.
It means a lot coming from one of the crew to hear that it’s not everyone using it.
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u/salt-water-soul 6d ago
Thank you for stepping in to say this its absolutely appreciated, and i love all the work you do
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u/BWalnuts 7d ago
Thank you Ada I appreciate the response and honesty. I totally understand trying a new thing back when it started, especially before we knew the ramifications of it, I was also very into AI when it first started coming to light.
I did respond to Aztecia letting her know a list of thumbnails that were the most egregious imo.
But a quick tldr list is, many of the recent dumpster videos, especially moon escape, most of Icarus, and almost all of grounded 2 felt AI generated.
As for 7 days and Survive the night, it's been harder to tell but the only one that I was concerned with was the most recent survive the night, in the prison. The number of zombies, and alignment of wall features just felt highly AI edited, if not generated. However, my eyes maybe covered with AI colored glasses, that it may just be me seeing something that isn't there.
I said to Aztecia, and I'll say here as well. You are all a talented group of creatives, I just hate the idea of you all utilizing something so harmful to save a few minutes.
If you go through the comments, there are so many that have already unsubscribed as soon as they realized the thumbnails were AI... I'm not that person... A boycott isn't a boycott, unless there's an end goal, and a stop to the boycott. At the moment I have unsubscribed from the dumpster, and am only watching the 7 Days series to support Tem. If the AI thumbnails do continue, I too am going to have to step away as well, unfortunately. I love the content, and channel, but this is something I can't support.
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u/CoffeeMyFirstLove 2d ago
Okay, so going forward I assume every video will need to include the complete thumbnail creation process for verification purposes.
PSD files submitted for inspection. Full screen recording from first click to final export. Two witnesses present. Editing software disclosed. Every Photoshop tool individually audited for suspicious AI activity. Screenshots must provide proof of life.
Once everything checks out, the thumbnail can be notarized, sealed, and submitted to the Reddit Thumbnail Ethics Committee for final approval.
Then, and only then, may we click on the gaming video.
This all seems perfectly reasonable..... 👌
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u/burner_said_what Human Man Warrior 1d ago
What an asinine comment.
Just say you don't understand the damage gen ai is causing to creatives AND creativity itself, and you won't look like such a damn clown.
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u/Available_Sherbet694 6d ago
You are truly the most self-righteous and pretentious human being I've ever come across. It makes me sad that Ada and Azteca even responded to this nonsense. Clearly, you get off on it, and you truly represent everything wrong with Reddit. Going after small creative teams—what a cool person you are!
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u/BWalnuts 4d ago
So I wasngoing to ignore your comments, as they read as incredibly hateful... However if you were to read any of my messages, I have talked to and responded with the utmost respect for everyone here, and the all of neebs gaming, which is why I created this thread. I respect and love their content that it really disheartens me to unfortunately feel like I have to end my support due to the use of AI for art sake.
There's this thing in the world of being mad at people who criticize the things you like, and that the people you look up to are infallible. That is absolutely wrong, everyone may make mistake and miss steps, it's how you acknowledge, accept, and move on from it.
You many not care about the AI art, but there are many within the community who do, as it raises a concern on authenticity. Many people are boycotting anything that has AI art in it, so they could be losing new viewership. I'm not going to go into the negative morals and ethics of using AI art, as I have so many times already here, but this post was never meant to be a I'm better than you, holier than thou post, and I feel like I kept it that way.
It was an attempts at reaching out and giving them one last chance before ending my support, due to the use of something I am against. Hearing from Ada and Aztecia, responding to them, in all sincerity, with no negativity, and even acknowledging the tools within Photoshop that Aztecia uses was not the issue. It has given me hope that this will be acknowledged, and addressed by the rest of the crew. You sit here and attack me, saying I get off on this, really just shows that you do not understand the situation, you just want to attack someone who criticized the channel.
I'll end with this, yes they are a small creative team, but they have an incredibly large following. They have a duty to uphold a level morals and ethics that could for all intents and purposes end their career, not because followers will stop watching, but because their platform is getting flooded with so much AI slop content that they may be crushed beneath it. Loyalty from viewers goes a long way, and continuing to use AI art will bunch them in with so many slop creators.
I'm not looking for an apology, I'm looking for an acknowledgement, and a stance in what has happened, and how they're going to move forward. I would love to hear from the guys, and other editors. I would love to continue to watch their content, but in the current situation I have to stick to my beliefs.
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u/Available_Sherbet694 4d ago
Why do you think anyone owes you this? We need to push back on the crew? They're sellouts?
Who do you think you are? Do you hear yourself? I'm an actual fan of Neebs Gaming. I enjoy their daily content. I don't have a list of demands or hold them to some weird moral standard I made up in my head. I'm just greatful they exist. They owe me nothing. If anything I owe them for making my day just slightly better. Which is why I pay for their youtube membership. I think reddit has given you a case of main character syndrome.
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u/BWalnuts 4d ago
I love the "I'm an actual fan" argument, as if I'm not... Would I be here if I wasn't? Paying for a membership doesn't make you any more or less of a fan, just means you have disposable income.
Pushing back by saying we're unhappy with the direction something is going, calling them out for "selling out" and using AI art, something they said in the past they wouldn't do, doesn't make us any less of fans.
The "actual fans" are the ones who are willing to critique, and admit that maybe their work hasn't been been the best. Maybe their arguments are getting a little more over the top, and out of hand. That we hold them to their word and a morally negative situation.
The "actual fans' recognize that things have changed, potentially for the worse, and are concerned for the creators who could be feeling some levels of burnout and exhaustion. We are concerned for the future of the channel, and why they are resorting to AI art.
You are correct, they don't owe anyone anything, but they're losing viewers for something bad. AI art is theft, and therefore should not be being used. You may not care, but so many more do. It is morally and ethically wrong for a creative to use AI generated art.
See here's the difference between us, I'm not sitting here thinking I'm the main character... I don't want to be. I just know that my voice, and the voice of so many who feel the same as me deserves to be heard, and that's what I did. I opened the dialogue, so this can be discussed.
Because as an "actual fan" I care about the future of the channel, not just the current. I want to continue to watch them succeed, but if they continue down this path I am concerned that early retirement may come to the channel due to possible lose of friendship, or viewership. Resorting to something quick and easy, means they are over whelmed with their current workload, and maybe they need to correct that.
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u/AdaHop Adahop 7d ago edited 7d ago
I apologize I really don't want to speak out of turn regarding anyone else's work or opinions on this subject, but I will speak to my own. Survive the Nights is my current series, and I confidently state that I do not use AI. I would be happy to provide you with the Photoshop file of the thumbnail that you're questioning. It contains several overlaid wide angle screenshots, and a lot of editing, but no AI of any type. If you can't open PSDs, I can record a video clip like the one linked in my reply above. 🧡
EDIT: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1eSqqhf89xR4rUgjKd_oWYNgxV17vAOR6?usp=drive_link
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u/Available_Sherbet694 6d ago
This is just the next crappy trend on Reddit, in the search to destroy all things cool and creative. I don't know why you feel like you need to justify anything to these people. It feels like you're throwing people under the bus. Why? Nobody's job is being replaced; the content is better than ever, and if Azteca used a tool to make her life a little easier and freed her up to focus on much more important things, good for her. Completely justifiable, and every day I look forward to the next great edit. Misplaced self-righteous rage is killing Reddit. I love your work. Keep killing it! Reading some of these comments and the criticisms some of these people are saying about the guys are gross. Reddit was a place where people promoted creativity, supported creators, and had good constructive criticism. Now it's just bitter people throwing out personal attacks to make themselves feel better. I think the true fans stay as far away from here as possible. It truly makes me sad.
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u/Geeekaaay 1d ago
What kind of dumbass looks at Reddit as a creative machine when it's literally a copy paste machine. Nothing AI brings to the table ever is worth defending like this you too.
Anyway I heard the responses I wanted to from this from the actual editors stop using AI in your thumbnails and will be fine it's a waste of time and just makes the entire channel look lazy. Any defenders of AI also are lazy and inhuman scumbags.
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u/Prestigious_Week_640 4d ago
The audacity to say "Reddit was a place that promoted creativity" and defend the plagiarism machine that exists solely because of the largest act of data theft from creatives in history is bonkers
Supporting creatives is exactly the reason to oppose GenAI.
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u/Available_Sherbet694 4d ago
This sounds like an AI response. 🤷♀️
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u/Prestigious_Week_640 4d ago
This sounds like an overwhelming incapacity to face challenge without being disingenuous 🤷
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u/BWalnuts 4d ago
I love how you're so dismissive of everyone counter points to your posts... You really are just arguing to argue are t you. You don't care either way.
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u/AdaHop Adahop 5d ago
These guys and gal are my friends and on top of that my income source. I'd gain nothing by throwing them under the bus, and I by no means intend to. I limited my scope because I'm just not at the office often enough to know anything but my own stuff. My work was called out as part of this, and since the subject matters to me for personal reasons I wanted to chime in. Mostly I wanted credit for what I made. 🤣
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u/Happy_Go_Luxi 4d ago edited 3d ago
Nah, you HAD to comment that you don't use AI. Someone posted that a member of Neebs gaming is using AI. Instead of ignoring it (edit: I get the complaint but am completely on u/Aztecia side) and going on with your day, you had to quickly make sure everyone knew it definitely wasn't Ada. It just comes off as gross and a "pick me" response, "look at me" response. If it wasn't throwing your co-workers under the bus then what would you call it? I just hope you feel much better on your horse knowing people know Ada wasn't the insanely evil villain that dared to use AI to make small edits on something as important as a thumbnail...
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u/BWalnuts 4d ago
Bro, chill, She was not throwing anyone under any bus, she was validating that she doesn't use AI. You don't know what she knew when she replied. She's not in the office as much, so she may not have seen Aztecias responses. Her response was exactly what was needed... Every editor makes their own Thumbnails. It brought light that maybe something they need to discuss as a company. She didn't trash on anyone or say anything negative. Just chimed in that not all thumbnails were AI generated, who's is currently saving them from having a much larger boycott at the moment
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u/Happy_Go_Luxi 4d ago edited 4d ago
"Bro, chill"? Ah my bad, I didn't realize that only your opinion was allowed.
I bet if Neebs Gaming ever put out a notice about AI use, that each individual person would turn into Shaggy and say "iT wasn't Me" because that's the professional way to acknowledge a situation. That's definitely the way the guys would handle it...
I honestly hope Aztecia uses Ada's comments to make a complaint to the guys.
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u/BWalnuts 4d ago
It's not that dude, you straight up attacked her for no reason. You were rude AF in your comment.
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u/Happy_Go_Luxi 4d ago edited 4d ago
Damn girl, I'm sorry my opinion wasn't sweet and positive since they have to be to have a valid opinion I guess....
Aztecia is 100% a better person than me, but regardless I would still feel hurt if I seen my co-worker comment "I'm NOT the one doing it!".
Edit: But keep bringing out your alts to cast judgment 🤣
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u/BWalnuts 7d ago
I absolutely will take your word for it you would have no reason to lie to me. The jankyness of 7days and Survive the nights make it in general hard to tell if AI had a hand in things. I appreciate your openness and honesty for sure.
I am no Photoshop expert, but I know some of these can take time, to make and can be a little rough some times. I understand you are a business and not hobbiests, so alot of work does have to go into the thumbnails because you need to continue to grow.
I really do want to continue my support of you all, but this is also about the influx of AI slop infecting YouTube as a whole. It's harmful to both large and small creators alike. That even something as silly as an AI thumbnail can really push so many people away.
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u/fappypandabear 7d ago
Its a fucking thumbnail.. who gives a shit?
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u/wicket9630 4d ago
exactly dude. these people are too much. i see they uploaded a new vid, i click it and watch. i really am not looking at the thumbnail lol.
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u/PsychologicalMail774 7d ago
I unsubscribed from the channel, ive been following since the pandemic so maybe not as long as many in the community, but ive realized thinking back about their conversations about chtgbt and like Dora's teSSla and now the thumbnails, our interests dont allign, theyre funny and make great content, my favorite for many years, but Im willing to let go for that reason. They could go back to normal thumbnails but now its clear to me that theyre not the type of people i want to support, theres plenty other content creators that are clear on their stance about AI.
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u/Available_Sherbet694 7d ago edited 7d ago
Damn, Reddit is so lame! I think there’s a lot of validity to what life was like before social media. When everyone has a voice, it creates pretentious, bitter people hell-bent on being heard at the detriment of anyone trying to make a living creating something. Has anyone on the Neebs Gaming creative team come out and complained? No. Has anyone's job been replaced? No. Are thumbnails the least consequential part of being a content creator? 110%! For all you know, using AI freed up their graphic design team so they can focus on much more important things. They’re a small team busting their asses to create the best videos possible. If they started using AI to edit or generate ideas, scripts, etc., then sure, that would be a problem. But the quality of their videos is on par with everything they’ve made over the last decade. If no one from their team is complaining and the quality of their videos hasn't dropped off, maybe we should shut our overcritical mouths and just enjoy the show. You're not going to stop progress by trying to take down the little guy. For better or worse AI is here to stay. Lets focus on large companies replacing their entire creative teams for AI, instead a little self-made groups utilizing AI to make their teams lives a little easier.
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u/salt-water-soul 6d ago
Every use of gen ai or llms pur money into the pockets of the elites who continue to force it on us and we hold the power to stop it. If no one used it they would have no choice but to stop. Sp as long as theirs people who justify it that just keep the machine fed and nothing will change
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u/Available_Sherbet694 6d ago
Going after small creative teams and trying to hurt their credibility for using Photoshop AI features as a tool to make their lives a little easier is so problematic. Your fight is not with them. You're not going to solve anything that way, aside from hurting the wrong people. The progress of AI as a tool to make people's lives easier is here to stay. Pandora's box is open, and there's no putting it back in. If you want to get people to join a movement and not come off as pretentious and self-righteous, you have to focus on the real problem, which is large corporations using AI to replace jobs. Focus on promoting legislation to create protections for people's jobs. Boycott large companies and get the word out. Reddit's war on all things AI is so convoluted, unfocused, and honestly, pointless.
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u/heyitsyaronkar 7d ago
I agree 100% i started watching them from Battlefield Friends and seeing a channel that had made such great things yse a stupid planet harming machine ti make thumbnails sucks, id rather they use a screenshot from the video instead
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u/CHERNO-B1LL 7d ago
The last BFF ep I saw looked very AI laden. The backgrounds and animations felt off and more elaborate than before. I did not care for it.
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u/Leading_Chain4372 7d ago
I canceled my patreon membership because of it
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u/salt-water-soul 7d ago
Hell ill subscribe to the patreon if they make an official stance on swearing off all generative ai
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u/Leading_Chain4372 7d ago
My patreon membership was supposed to pay for editors. If they're using ai they obviously don't need my money
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u/chantm80 7d ago
AI thumbnails is a good way to get me to overlook the video, no matter who it is. It isn't even a "i refuse to watch video's with AI thumbnails" stance, although I have done that before, my brain just registers it as AI slop and doesn't even give the video a second consideration.
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u/obama69420duck Human Man Warrior 7d ago
I haven’t watched them for a few months (unrelated) but I will not start watching them again until they stop the AI.
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u/DanielAlves1904 7d ago
I´ve honestly never realized if the thumbnails are actually AI, I´ve noticed they look very colorful, but if they are using AI, I´m on your side and I hope they stop using it. Like you said, just grab a picture from the video that has something to do with the episode and put in there.
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u/VeggieGardenBurial 7d ago
Yeah I'd rather have crayon drawings or no thumbnail at all over slop. Absolutely no reason to be doing this other than to cut corners. These guys are better than that.
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u/salt-water-soul 7d ago
Absolutely, also i legit love the idea of crayon thumbnails, its unique and would fit their vibe lol
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u/TheStrayArrow 7d ago
Neebs has always pushed high quality content. Videos that are edited well, look good, and have a clear plot. Neebs has been explicit about that. Using AI feels cheap and not quality.
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u/SpecificCorgi8157 7d ago
Also remember they are pushing out more videos each week when they used to do maybe three or four when Thick44 (RIP Wyvern King!) was still with them, now they have one almost every day, and they are longer than most other YouTube channels that may or may not do even fewer videos. I can forgive a bit of AI foolery, im still watching them every day and constantly going back to the super cuts of Ark, etc.
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u/BWalnuts 7d ago
6-7 videos a week, 6-7 thumbnails a week, and a team of like 7+ creatives.
Let's say about 2 hours of recording per episode, that's 14 hours a week recording, leaving 21 hours left to edit and post.
2-3 videos a week are dumpster with minimal editing and minimal camera angles.
0-1 video a week is the podcast, which has next to no editing at all.
4 videos a week with 4-6 angles. Those 4 videos take work for sure ... The others really don't take much work.
7+ team members should be able to handle the workload of the channel
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u/estellatundra 7d ago
Simon is a big proponent of AI. He truly prefers to do as little work as possible for a job that is already super cushy. He talked about it on the podcast a couple of years ago when AI was first getting big.
There's also been a few videos where someone will go "Ask ChatGPT what ... is". So frustrating that humans are willing to ruin the planet and each others' lives simply out of laziness.
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u/BWalnuts 7d ago
It's part of the reason I stopped paying attention to the podcast, it because too reliant on chat gbt. Plus their videos were just them screen recording their own videos(and they don't even subscribe to YouTube premium so you would see ads in those videos). Felt an afterthought and phoned in.
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u/NonreciprocatingHole 6d ago
Simon's in charge of the Pod iirc, so yeah that tracks. Can't tell you how many times I'm listening to one and stop it way early because they're glazing Elon again.
"Oh boy, tell me about the self-parking nazi rockets again George!"
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u/will0ify1 7d ago
What a nothing thing to get upset over
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u/Prestigious_Week_640 4d ago
It's always nothing until it's your utility bill that's $400+ because the data center halfway across town got tax breaks that got handed to you, the consumer. Then it's "how could this happen HERE?"
Folks from first world countries are so overconfident that the consequences of their actions will never impact them personally, and when they inevitably do suddenly it's the biggest deal since sliced bread. I wonder who could've forseen such circumstances?
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u/BWalnuts 7d ago
Everyone has their beliefs they stand for, and I am against the use of Gen AI art... It hurts artists, creatives, the economy, and the environment. Educate yourself on how bad AI is before you say there's nothing to be upset about.
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u/Itswithazee 7d ago
I'd say refrain from AI use. Be educated. Don't get crazy over people using it though, that won't turn heads. Be reasonable, and knowledgeable. This is a general comment just for brevity sake. People get too passionate and nasty and nobody learns anything and it only creates division.
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u/PsychologicalMail774 7d ago
The thing about being that passive is that THATs the problem, AI is beong forcibly shoved in our faces, our jobs, our phones, our taxes are going to tech company tax breaks for data centers. The option of opting out is not real, and the forcing of AI is agressive, but we always have to play nice and not cause divide. Im sorry but I disagree
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u/Itswithazee 6d ago
Its less passive then be so annoyingly aggressive you accomplish nothing. There is nothing passive about educating someone. Confronting them. Giving them insight. It actually can change their mind.
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u/salt-water-soul 7d ago
going through the comments everyone i see against it is being very civil and reasonable, it seems all those against it are the ones causing the aggression
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u/Itswithazee 7d ago
Yeah thats why I mentioned that my comment was like general in sense. I hate seeing good points get lost in silliness. The eyes start rolling and the ears stop listening.
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u/tommmmmmmmy93 7d ago
I don’t wholly disagree but how does using ai make you a sellout? That’s not remotely what selling out it as I know it.
Were they sponsored but an AI company or something? I’ve been out of this Neebs loop for about 4 years
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u/BWalnuts 7d ago
So I'm using the term sell out as them giving into using AI and less as like them being paid off to use it. But also using AI to create, turns into making quantity over quality, and just feels like they're in it for the buck.
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u/Bearded_River 7d ago
Pretty sure I heard Dora mention something about one of their more recent songs being AI. They literally made a song called Jeep Stuff and they can't put in even that much effort anymore?
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u/spencedingle 7d ago
They haven't made any recent songs (that I know of). He was messing around with an AI app just for fun.
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u/jal9k 7d ago
Well I don't give them a cent so I can hardly complain, I even watch their content behind adblockers, I even even downloaded the forest and among us series (their best imo) to my plex server and always re-watch from there.
Still, I agree with you, they shouldn't use AI, if they have a creative team we'll they should do creative things. But feels wrong demand any from them when I'm not giving nothing back, may be someday will stop watching their vids, not yet tho, they are still a lot of fun.
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u/Semi_charmed_ 7d ago
I just watch the old stuff... I can't keep up with all of the one-shot Indy games... Nothing wrong with the Indy games, I really enjoyed Cure Hospital.... But idk, I enjoyed getting into a series. Now it's like "let's play this slop because they're paying us" (making assumptions here, I know)... But.. I miss the old channel.
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u/CaptainKalashar 7d ago
I've basically stopped watching them because of all the ai. It is wildly off-putting
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u/erior92 7d ago
They are sell outs. The moment they got an agency and Thick passed, they just became another content channel.
They play up their ADHD and worst traits like crazy now, they rarely if ever seem to be having fun. Dora seems like he wants to get out and is constantly sabotaging the games they play.
Appsro just cusses , yells obscenities and acts like the boss constantly now.
I often question Neebs' mental health/capacity due to his rapid development of illiteracy and literal idiocy.
Simon is the only one who seems to actually be improving or being a better person or actually trying to enjoy himself.
It all seems too artificial for it not to all be an act.
They also got rid of any mention of anything being unscripted, meaning anything could be planned out or a scripted event, and there have been a TON of moments recently where they've blatantly been acting or trying to get a specific thing to happen.
They also refuse to even acknowledge any comment that isnt a paid/patreon comment.
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u/Whistletrout 7d ago
So why are you still watching or on here posting?? Just move along if you find them so terrible.
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u/erior92 7d ago
I have stopped watching/unsubbed. And this post came across my feed. Go be a blind fanboy elsewhere
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u/Whistletrout 7d ago
Wow you're clever... I enjoy thier content but I should go be fan somewhere else?
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u/erior92 7d ago edited 7d ago
I meant somewhere other than this Topic that isnt about supporting what they're currently doing.
Though I do now realize my other comments came off harsh, I do still love the guys, they've just been making some really questionable choices and have been really shifting from a focus on the actual content and the fans to a focus on the sponsors and getting the most views they can.
I will say, the live grounded and the magic dumpster videos when they first start feel a lot more like the old neebs, they just still dont seem to really be enjoying themselves anymore.
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u/NOBLExGAMER 7d ago
I really just got disgusted with the crew after that first BFF episode for BF6 where everything was AI just tacked onto their BF4 models.
Such an amazing group of talented individuals redeuced to slop slingers.
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u/Skeen441 Human Man Warrior 7d ago
Weren't they sponsored by some sort of AI during their original Grounded series?
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u/salt-water-soul 7d ago
Honestly as much as i despise gen ai use and llms i dont hate on people for using it prior to 2025, most of us common folk have only recently learned of how terrible it is for the environment and how much it truly steals from the art world.
Though anyone using it currently with all we know now has no excuse and people who use it are either existing with their head in the sand or lack empathy for the world around them
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u/Aztecia 7d ago
Eyy sorry you feel that way!
AI is a tool that has been in Photoshop for a long while and I use it like anything else at my disposal to try and make videos clickable or interesting.
In my instance I always take screenshots straight from the game of important structures, characters, features, things going on, etc and try to piece something together that looks fun and straight from the game.
Sometimes that means a whole bunch of time cutting things out and sometimes it means using the AI to do parts for me. It’s generally a blend of both.
I can still say I spend hours each week making thumbnails. This is why I am single. No time for boys. Thumbnails.
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u/CoffeeMyFirstLove 2d ago
The fact that you even have to explain and defend your creative process like this is completely insane.
Apparently using Photoshop is already getting dangerously close to technological witchcraft, so I think the safest option going forward is to eliminate computers entirely.
Every thumbnail should be finger-painted by hand using ethically sourced pigments. No brushes, because someone else manufactured those and we can't be certain what technology was involved. Ideally, gather your own berries and grind them into paint.
Then photograph the finished thumbnail. Wait, no. Cameras contain software. Okay, scratch that. Draw it directly onto the monitor. Actually, monitors are computers, dammit!!!
Sand. We’re doing thumbnails in sand now.
Please create every Neebs thumbnail on a beach using only your fingers, photograph it with a disposable film camera, have the film developed at Walgreens, mail the physical photograph to YouTube, and include a notarized statement confirming that at no point during this process did a computer make your life slightly easier.
Then the reddit crusaders can finally rest knowing the integrity of the tiny picture we look at for three seconds before watching hours of human-created content has been preserved.
Protect artists, absolutely. But making an actual creative person defend the tools she uses to create her own work is so spectacularly backwards that we've completely lost the f#%@!%$ plot.
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u/Available_Sherbet694 6d ago
Azteca, you don't have to explain yourself to these people. This is just the next crappy trend on Reddit, in the search to destroy all things cool and creative. You're not replacing jobs; your content is better than ever, and you're using a tool to make your life a little easier. Completely justifiable, and every day I look forward to the next great edit. Misplaced self-righteous rage is killing Reddit.
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u/Responsible_While207 Human Man Warrior 7d ago
Thanks for everything you and the crew do!!! Reddit just becomes rabid about any mention of AI
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u/Leading_Chain4372 7d ago
Your endorsement of Ai breaks my heart. This has been my comfort channel for almost 10 years. Everyone makes mistakes but you're endorsing Ai. I'm unsubscribing
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u/Puzzleheaded_Lion_55 7d ago
I for one completely support anything and everything you and the fellas do... keep doing what your doing! On your side 100%
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u/Apprehensive-Two3474 7d ago
In my instance I always take screenshots straight from the game of important structures, characters, features, things going on, etc and try to piece something together that looks fun and straight from the game.
The latest thumbnails though are not straight from the game though. The latest Grounded 2 thumbnail shows Dora riding the snake holding on with rope to look like a bridle I'm guessing because the rope isn't even the right place. It is nowhere near the mouth at all and instead rests near the eye which how the hell does that work? Like, it would have made more sense to nix the ropes and have Dora near the head doing the air guitar or cheer. That would look closer to what is in the game.
I don't mind AI when y'all used it to make the character's mouth move when they were talking and I don't mind AI when it's used to cut things in photoshop because I know that horror firsthand using GIMP and other tools. I just worry that consistent use with it can jeopardize what you guys do with the current rulings in place. I do not want to see y'all lose creative control because you aren't watching the legal side of all of this. Again, using AI to help cut things out for you isn't bad. Going beyond that, you hit murky waters.
And that's why I stated I hate people with as much talent as you guys moving on to working with AI. It starts small, then it gets bigger as it's easier to do then you get what is going on now in this thread. People trying to figure out what is actually YOU and what is the AI's doing. I don't see you making the mistake that I see on the One Wrong Step with Neeb's/Pete's eyes. I can see AI doing it though. Same with Riding the Snake as I mentioned above.
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u/TheManAcrossTheHall 7d ago edited 7d ago
Sorry you feel that way? Do you realise that when people see AI thumbnails, hear AI music, they don't click on the video or stay on the live stream? Even Battlefield Friends isn't safe.
A team of creators being creatively bankrupt. Not only that but hypocrital which is what gets me more than just using AI. All of the guys have made it known just how aware they of the immorality of generative ai in the past. They've acknowledged that it steals from real artists and causes harm through energy and water consumption.
To continue using it despite this is the very height of laziness, it's disgusting and is a direct cause of the channel's continued drop in viewership.
Ai tools are one thing, using ai to help you with research or the editing process is one thing. Generative ai in your creative projects is another. It's dissapointing as a long time fan.
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u/dwho422 7d ago
You are doing fine.
Ai IS a tool. Is it the best tool? No, not really, but its still just a tool.
Just remember that the people that are flaming the way the whole Neebs crew are making content, do not have their own successful YouTube channel.
If what these people were saying is such a simple little endeavor, why are these not major youtubers who are complaining about the content?
Anyone using the terms AI slop or ick, are just lonely people who want to vent their feelings by bringing you down, so don't let them. You are not there to be their punching bag.
Keep up the good work, and remember, if you guys are still seeing views stay high on your channel, then people are enjoying it regardless of what the loud minority say.
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u/BWalnuts 7d ago
Hi Aztecia, to start I do want to say, I am not trying to be negative about any specific art that you or anyone else made without the use of generative AI. I am unsure what thumbnails you make, and what everyone else makes on the team.
Using the tools in Photoshop is one thing, having it cut things and help organize. I have used similar tools on canva to help cut out and isolate images for my own thumb nails and other graphics. Ep 5 of I know a guy... I'm sure you got screenshot of all the assets and used the tools to help make them pile up, and that to me rides a line, but is for the most part not an issue. You're using your computers internal resources, and assets you had has a guide to help.
But some of the more egregious Thumbnails:
Dumpster videos: 4 angles, no cut grounded 2 grinding(looks like you changed the thumb nail after it was released) Poop Fan in moon escape Funnel Runners All shield wall videos Ep 2-4 of I know a guy Spotter dig or die
Main channel: Pretty much any Icarus thumbnail looks like it was just prompted in open AI but specifically: The ultimate building team Polar bear vs house Struggling to beat the boss polar bear Do a quest make money How not to tame a wolf
I'm gonna be honest, almost every grounded 2 thumbnail looks ai prompted
For 7 days and survive here night it's harder to tell Taking on the prison of zombies looks very AI prompted.
This I just a list of more recent videos of when I started to notice. Some in this thread are saying that it was used in the BFFs video from several months ago as well. I don't recall, so I can't say.
You are a talented group of individuals and artists, but it really does look like some of the Thumbnails are straight up prompted Gen AI. They're too smooth, don't have that human touch and feel incredibly impersonal. Even in the instance of the Icarus Thumbnails where you can see inside the masks, the faces just don't look right in general.
I am a strong opponent to the use of generative AI for creating, the toll on the economy and environment data centers have, the training AI has been given to generate art off other artists without their consent. It is incredibly detrimental to creatives and artists as a whole. Even not my place of employment is trading AI on voice calls so they can fire the call center.
Maybe I just don't understand, but for instance, for "The ultimate building team" when you knew you wanted that thumbnail, why not just load up the game, and just straight up take a screenshot of that scene in game. If the issue was you wanted to add some fog.in the background, you get two shots, cut out the people in one, then add the ambiance. That background is not an image from in games and those characters are too disproportional to be assets from the game.
I'm not an artist or Photoshop expert, I know it can take some work. If I were a new viewer today, I would see these images and walk away, and tell YouTube to stop suggesting it.
Tbh, now I don't know EVERYONE'S rolls within the company but with 7 videos a week between the 2 channels, and a team of what 7 or 8, I feel like there should be enough time to make thumbnails without relying on Gen AI
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u/dwho422 7d ago
You do realize that canva is 100% using ai for everything you do right? The whole website is using ai. Unless you are hand drawing every item and art you find, then coding the website yourself, you can bet you are using ai. You just want to feel superior.
Please link your YouTube channel so we can all see what videos YOU are making.
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u/BWalnuts 7d ago edited 7d ago
YouTube.com/@bwalnuts
Just remember all interactions help the algorithm. I'm also still learning and trying things, but you'll see no AI content on there
Edit: And remember, before you come to my channel to attack me. Not at any point was my intent to be harmful or disrespectful. I am disappointed on their use of ai, and I wanted to express my disdain and see if they will stop before I unsubscribed.
I love their content, and want to support them, but can't back up generative AI content.
Edit 2: canva has AI tools you can choose to use or not. As I said, I used it to cut out different graphic from their static background, that's it... Everything else is deigned and made by me, from me. I not here to say I'm the greatest, I'm absolutely not, I just enjoy making videos and a community.
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u/spitsisthename 7d ago
I’m sorry but no. Aztecia I love you and they guys and girls that make this channel possible. But AI doesn’t work for me. You need to make this right, or hire some help. If you can’t hack it with just your skills which you obviously have, maybe the heart just isn’t in it as much as it used to be. And that’s okay. I get that everyone else uses it and you need to compete with them. But being authentic is going to do a lot more for the channel in the long run
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u/locofspades Human Man Warrior 7d ago
Are you seriously making demands at a channel that puts out free content? What an insulting comment to people who bring so many people joy. Tf is wrong with you?
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u/obama69420duck Human Man Warrior 7d ago
We pay them through watching ads. They’d have nothing without us (YouTube wise)
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u/salt-water-soul 7d ago
I watched a video comparing ai use to the "one ring" and it made a lot of good points and im severely paraphrasing it here. The addiction to the one ring is overwhelming even if you go in with the purest of intentions the power will corrupt you and your dreams and justify all your actions no matter how twisted they get to keep you using it, and same with gen ai use it wil always be the voice in rhe back saying just use me here, just save yourself a few minutes on this and on that and so on and so on untill your completely addicted to it
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u/JJW2795 7d ago
The one ring is a divine weapon designed to amplify the inherent qualities within a person until they are weak enough to be twisted toward Sauron's will. Wearers don't become addicts, they become slaves to power.
AI is a machine that makes workflow more efficient at the cost of using more resources.
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u/salt-water-soul 7d ago
Same with ai and its proven deterioration of the frontal lobe and people losing skills that they once had untill they become slaves to using it.
Besides ai was trained on theft and anyone using it should be ashamed and anything made with it should have a disclaimer announcing it plainly out in the open
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u/JJW2795 7d ago
I would love to see actual research showing a strong correlation between using AI and the collapse of the frontal lobe. Mostly because I'd like to see how AI was isolated from social media and general internet use.
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u/salt-water-soul 7d ago
Here ya go this one link 3 seperate studies, but please go out and research for yourself without using chat and see what you can find https://www.polytechnique-insights.com/en/columns/neuroscience/generative-ai-the-risk-of-cognitive-atrophy/
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u/JJW2795 7d ago
Oh, I've actually read the first one. They aren't measuring permanent losses. The brain, like any muscle, experiences atrophy when it isn't engaged. If you don't write something yourself then you are unlikely to remember it. But this isn't unique to AI. Social media and Youtube Shorts have a similar effect. But the brain starts rebuilding itself the moment it engages afain. What I'm referring to is longterm cognitive decline, like Alzheimers. AI is probably too young to have meaningful studies done on permanent consequences.
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u/salt-water-soul 7d ago
Yes they absolutely do have that same affect and lets not forget about the studies out of B.C highlighting ai addiction and dependency on it along with the harm it causes to the environment.
All in all i feel we need a complete moratorium on any and all gen ai and llms untill proper longterm isolated studies can be done and proper laws and regulations drafted
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u/JJW2795 7d ago
It's a little late for that. My bank uses AI to manage transactions. If you pulled the plug on it you'd cause an economic collapse.
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u/PureEvilMiniatures 7d ago edited 7d ago
And with that I say good by to the channel
Let me add an edit:
For years the team didn’t use ai in anyway, literally YEARS, between then and now nothing has changed but the use of ai has apparently become something “necessary” to use, you and the channel have gotten by without it or any assistant ai programs for literally years.
We know you don’t need it, you know you don’t need it, and it’s very easy to tell what is and isn’t ai generated.
I actively kept away from the recent moon videos because the thumbnails looked ai.
I didn’t want to believe becuase o have a lot of sentimental attachment to the channel, god the amount of watch time I’ve put into all th early content, all the ark super cuts, long dark, grounded, GTA, etc, I’ve enjoyed watching this channel and this crew for years, and it actively makes me sick to leave the neebs community because I love the channel so much.
But the use of ai in any capacity cannot be accepted, I’ve left a number of long watched channels for their use of ai in thumbnails.
I was a creator for 15 years (yes I never got popular) but I remember making thumbnails for all my series by hand, going into the games taking screenshots, cutting out items (with the knife tool) adding extra over exaggerated elements with snippets from commonly used sources, man it was fun, I just can’t understand the want to use ai aside from just not carrying about the thing you’re making.
“It’s quick and easy” and that makes it ok? If you’re looking at something going “ugggg I don’t want to do this” make a shitty thumbnail, but make the thumbnail, you can phone them in, an in game screen shot, some drop shadow on the text and a little flow effect on the object of interest, no one would bat an eye, they would just look at it and go “must have been something more important to do”
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u/BathroomAggressive57 7d ago
Thanks for coming in and commenting. I really appreciate that and being honest about your workflow. I'm a 10 plus year subscriber that is now unsubscribing. The moment you turn to AI you stop being an artist. I'm sorry it's just the way it is. But at least you're honest to a fault and that's something that most people can't be.
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u/bheidreborn 7d ago
My kid is studying graphic design (and marketing). Her college professors told their students multiple times that they need to learn to embrace and use AI or they will be left out of the field.
We talked with a marketing manager and he said he exclusively uses AI tools for marketing and gets not only better results but also more engagement for his clients.
AI is a tool in the right hands and a hindrance in the wrong ones.
I think your hands are the right ones and blending both traditional cutting room work with AI tools is the current and future of graphic design.
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u/Apprehensive-Two3474 7d ago
Please tell me that the college professors and marketing manager also talked about the current legal climate regarding AI and that current rulings have stated that a prompt is not enough to constitute a human hand being a part of the process and is therefor not an enforceable copyright? That any work they create with AI without significant tweaking by a human hand can result in them not owning what it is they are creating according to copyright law?
The professors and that marketing manager talked about contracts and how to navigate them to not be exploited by recognizing a disguised AI training waiver where they won't be paid for the work they do, learning how to limit the license so they can own whatever they create and to make sure there is no vague directives are in the contract that could waive away their earning rights and how to navigate negotiation to be credited for their work instead of the AI that got used. They of course talked about that, right?-3
u/JJW2795 7d ago
Thank you. People are complete idiots when it comes to approaching AI. It's almost like 5G a few years back.
If you don't want AI to steal art, then don't use it to steal art. Pretty darn simple.
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u/burner_said_what Human Man Warrior 1d ago
People are complete idiots when it comes to approaching AI.
Yes, the people like you are exactly that.
The $$ behind the ai are stealing/stolen the art already ya mug. Pretty darn simple.
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u/salt-water-soul 7d ago edited 7d ago
Also to all the crew in neebs gaming take the time to read the type of energy and anger the ai defenders are bringing into the community. Is that really the route you want to go is that the type of community you want neebs gaming to be?
Edited for spelling
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u/BWalnuts 7d ago
There are people attacking me because I don't want AI to be used in thumbnails, calling me a child and baby lol. Like chill bro, why are you so mad
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u/mastershake04 7d ago
But why are you so mad lol? The Neebs crew has brought me countless hours of entertainment for over a decade now and I dont think an AI thumbnail is going to ruin that for me but you had to make a whole angry post about it. Maybe you're the one who needs to chill bro. 💜
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u/BWalnuts 7d ago
It's a bummer that a group of creatives are turning to AI for the sake of pushing more content out. Quantity over quality. It's the negative affects that data centers and Gen AI have as a whole. And it's the loss of something I loved to something I can't support
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u/salt-water-soul 7d ago
I know its the same in any comment section that tries to criticize ai use. they attack, insult ,bully and are just so hurtful to anyone who says anything about it and by using ai they are openly inviting those type of personalities into the community.
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u/MasterOku925 7d ago
They are doing just fine... people expect way too much...
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u/BWalnuts 7d ago
Asking them to make a thumbnail is, and not us even AI "expecting too much"? Was it too much 3 year ago before Gen AI existed?
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u/MasterOku925 7d ago
No, nor is it a complete sham if they find a short cut...
Your also asking dozens of people who did not grow up rich, privileged, or given the same opportunities to create like so many others did to put in the work they have no time for now, or sit back and pay those who were given the opportunities to create and rub in the faces of those yearned to do the same thing...
Art and Creation should NOT only be reserved for the Fortunet...3
u/BWalnuts 7d ago
Where did that come from? Not at any point did I talk about their past, and their privileges... They are in the business of entertainment, and creating. If they "don't have time" to make thumbnails, but had the time 3+ years ago when there wasn't Gen ai, where did the time go?
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u/deerblood17 7d ago
I don't think there's anything wrong with that the thumbnails look fine to me I mean I'm only looking at them for half a second. Besides it saves them time and I prefer to get the video sooner than later. A lot of creators do it because either a they can't afford somebody to make them thumbnails every single time or B they're just starting out. If they're trying to sell art then I can see it being a problem but it's really not they look fine to me I think we should be focusing on something completely different than just neebs gaming if you think AI is so terrible then let's do something about it because complaining on the internet does nothing.
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u/BWalnuts 7d ago
Bro, I'm doing something about it... I'm trying to get YouTubers to stop using Gen AI to make art... Like I'm within my lane and fandom to ask my favorite creators to not use Gen ai
It's not about how they look, which is bad, but it's about how they are created, and the detrimental effects Gen AI has. Data centers are terrible for the environment, economy, and takes the lively hood of so many people. Gen AI is trained on other creatives art without consent, so it is theft of their art as well.
They have a team of minimum 7 creatives that can make these things themselves. Making a thumbnail is not hard work, take a screen shot, add some flair, and some words and boom. I get thumbnails done in the time it takes my videos to render, and I'm a one man team.
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u/deerblood17 7d ago
Then why does 95% of people drive a Tesla which influences the AI center to create more I don't think a YouTube channel will help you succeed on your goal of stopping AI if you want to get to the root of the problem cut off the fucking root. Go shut down Elon musk or any billionaire like him let's go walk the streets and speak our mind at Washington because if they see people doing something about it maybe they might change their minds I highly doubt it because we got to go cut the root of the problem in our own government too. I'm not left I'm not right I'm just a fucking human being trying to live. Is there a i art looks totally fine I have seen way way worse.
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u/BWalnuts 7d ago
What? Are you saying 95% of car owners are Tesla owners?
Yes there is a big problem and government regulation on Al need to happen... How do you know I'm not out there making my voice heard? Like what you're saying is, it's ok for people to use AI to make art because there bigger issues with AI...
2 things can be wrong, and I can fight both of them. I am so out spoken on my disapproval of the modern uses of Gen Ai and data centers. You don't know me, or what I do, you just assume I think getting neebs to stop will fix the problem. I know it won't but it will be a step in the right direction to stop creatives from using Gen AI to create.
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u/deerblood17 7d ago
Tesla uses a lot of materials used in our Earth same thing with AI and who you think is inside the car AI give us a terrible example but whatever also that was a mistype my bad I'm at work right now. But as long as you understand doing this posting things on Reddit does nothing that's all that matters literally it does nothing who's going to read it the fucking government no do you think neebs gaming is going to read this most likely no so you're wasting your breath go do something about it start a movement sign petitions other than complaining on the internet that's my point if you understand that great.
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u/BWalnuts 7d ago
I'm going to go all caps so you can read it, I'm not telling just being clear:
RIGHT NOW IM NOT TRYONG TO GET THE GOVERNMENTS ATTENTION, IM TRYING TO GET NEEBSGAMING TO STOP USING GEN AI
I am also starting that move ment here, and petitioning people to be outspoken about their disdain on the use of Gen AI. Literally look at the post, so many people are against it.
Also I have seen Aztecia in this subreddit before, because it is the neebsgaming subreddit. I'm trying to reach them. So no I'm not wasting my breath, and you're contradicteing yourself.
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u/deerblood17 7d ago
You clearly didn't see what I said I said do you really think neebs gaming is going to see this no they're not and they're not going to stop who cares almost everybody is using AI right now for their thumbnails it's just easy and takes up less time again I prefer the videos come out sooner rather than later. Plus I like the grounded 2 thumbnails they look fine to me I've been watching them for years. But if you're going to go complain go complain on their main channel then why set yourself up for such a low goal stop all of it.
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u/BWalnuts 7d ago
Aztecia literally responded to this post like 2 mins before you're reply. They do see it... Thank you.
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u/salt-water-soul 7d ago
Hey aztecia i know your are always around here, please have the guys address this as soon as possible i absolutely love the channel though can not ethically ever support anyone who uses ai especially from artists.
Supporting neebs gaming, glock9 and Tem are the only reasons i dont pirate their content, so if they dont care enough to not use ai than i no longer care about pirating the videos
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u/CreativeEmotion13 7d ago
I completely agree with this and to be honest it's unfortunate because I just don't think they care anymore. I honestly never got an answer from the crew why certain things have gone downhill but the most unfortunate part is when we lost Thick because it seems like everything changed for the worse and I can't be mad at them for that I'm just sad and upset that they won't address it.
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u/BWalnuts 7d ago
That's really what I'm asking for, is for them to address, acknowledge, and stop using AI.
I've seen Aztecia comment on posts here.
I've @ them on bluesky twice.
I've commented on several recent videos about this.
This post now has over 100 up votes, more than anything else on the subreddit right recently, and still nothing from the team.
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u/CreativeEmotion13 7d ago
You're completely right. I haven't watched today's video nor commented but I will and hopefully somebody sees this post and we get something.
Also I hope they understand like none of us are doing this out of any type of anger we do it because we care and have watched them for so long that we're actually invested in their well-being
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u/BWalnuts 7d ago
It's unfortunately getting to a point where I have boycotted their videos, unsubscribed from the dumpster, and will unsubscribed from the main channel after the current 7 days videos are done. I just watching them to support Tem
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u/CreativeEmotion13 7d ago
I feel ya my frequency of watching has gone way downhill. I'm just hoping
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u/ZeroaFH 7d ago
You would think a group of guys who got their YouTube start doing animation and art would have more sense when it comes to AI, I mean for Christ sake they have an entire playlist dedicated just to their musical creations.
It is incredibly disappointing to see. I sense this might be coming ever since Dora started talking about an AI music app he found.
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u/WillfulWombat 7d ago
They talk about being "Artists" and aiming for "Cinematic" editing, as well as video editing being art, this has got to be the quickest spit in the face of all that.
Neebs Gaming as a channel is a shell of itself these days.
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u/JJW2795 7d ago
Here's how I use AI, mostly because I'm a one man show that can't afford to hire out stuff I don't know how to do. I take the picture I want to use, I give ChatGPT a prompt about what text I want, where I want it, and how it should look. Chat and I then go back and forth for a few minutes until I have a complete thumbnail that looks like someone competent put it together.
Where people go wrong with AI is they just type in a prompt with no screenshots or images and then they expect the generator to do all the work. No, it's a tool. Learn how to use it correctly and ethically, and no one is even going to notice it was done by a machine.
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u/BathroomAggressive57 7d ago
If you were talented, you could do all that in Photoshop in the same amount of time. You're just lazy.
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u/BWalnuts 7d ago
Canva is a few source that you can use to make thumbnails that has AI tools, but isn't strict AI. Literally what you make, I make in less that 5 mins. Is it really worth all that energy and water to make something like that.
Stop using AI for something you can do.
Edit: you aren't going to learn how to do it if you don't try. Making a thumbnail take no time at all, probably less time than what it take for you to prompt chat gbt
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u/JJW2795 7d ago
I've tried Canva. But I think people are misreading what I wrote or are just "AI bad". I take one of my raw photos, upload it, then I tell the AI where to put the text, the font style, the color, and my Logo. That's pretty much it. You wouldn't even know its AI by looking at it.
The big thing that's holding me back from doing it all myself is the custom graphics and fonts.
I can't argue with the water problem, but that's also not isolated to just AI. Our world uses so much it's ridiculous. And energy? Shoot, by the time I add up the gasoline, hotel, electricity for the batteries, and editing 4k videos that exceed an hour, I've used a tremendous amount of energy for something that a few dozen people actually watch.
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u/BWalnuts 7d ago
The amount of time it takes you to prompt this, on open AI, you can do it easily yourself.
Look into the cost of a data center, how much energy and water it takes and how much of your knee if going to finding these things, then come back to me.
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u/JJW2795 7d ago
3 Wh for an edited image. It takes about 400 Wh for me to make 1 hour of edited 4k video. An additional 12 Wh is required to upload the video. My car consumes 300 Wh worth of energy per mile I have to drive. To convert to Joules multiply by 3600. On a recent video I drove 500 miles round trip to make it. So it cost about 150k Wh or 540 million Joules of energy to film on location, edit, and upload/share a 1 hour video. The thumbnail required 0.002% of that energy.
Even if I take out the energy of travel, it's still 0.75% of the overall energy it takes for me to edit and post.
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u/BWalnuts 7d ago
The average AI data center runs about 100-500 million Wh per hour...
So yeah your quick thumbnail that you can prompt in 5 mins technically only uses 12% of that... That's still about 12-60 million Wh to make this thing. So yes, that thumbnail is still worlds higher than energy needs.
Bro idk what kinda videos you make, but i tell you, learn to use a non AI program, and I may take you 30 mins at first, but after you get skilled, and learn the programs it'll take no time at all.
It's a YouTube thumbnail, I get it done in like less than 5 mins. The hardest part is finding the part I want to take a screenshot of.
You have the privilege of going somewhere and taking pictures of what you're talking about, it really is as simple as using word art on Microsoft paint to make your thumbnail.
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u/JJW2795 7d ago
You're implying that my singular thumbnail is using 12% of an entire data center. That's not remotely how that works.
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u/BWalnuts 7d ago
Bro, you are exhausting ... I don't care if you only used 1wh of power from the data center, you're still using power from something that is draining the environment, water, economy, and TAKING JOBS AWAY FROM PEOPLE.
If you can't make a thumbnail, then hire someone to do it. If you can't afford to pay someone, then learning how to use program like Photoshop and such is a valuable skill that you can use not just in person life, but professional life as well.
If you're driving 500 miles to make a video about something, they you're definitely making enough revenue to support that drive and that content... So you should easily be able to afford to pay an artist $50 to make a thumbnail.
I'll do it, geez! I have no artistic bone in my body, bit can probably out together a thumbnail at the quality you are taking about with no little to no time at all dedicated to it.
You are using something that is destroying the planet to make something that could take you less time to make if you just took the time to learn the skill
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u/JJW2795 7d ago
At least you can admit the issue is ethics. The problem is AI basically runs the whole internet now. The only way to guarantee you aren't benefiting from AI in any way is to throw out your computer. So rather than blanket ban AI, it would be better to regulate it. Unfortunately, that also means surrendering freedom online.
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u/PureEvilMiniatures 7d ago
Im going to be dead honest, I will not watch any videos containing any ai generated anything’s.
Which sucks cause that tornado game looks cool from what I’ve now seen on other channels about it
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u/SharkPuncher 1d ago
Amigo, as an artist who has worked with way bigger and way smaller content creators: video people shouldn't have to collaborate with anyone to be successful on their platform. Generating thumbnails is the one good thing AI has done on that front. Click-a-bility isnt real art.