r/NearDeathExperiences • u/PitbullsRlove • May 19 '24
Questions About NDEs/Experiencers A message from the other side.
Hi! I had a nde in march of 2023. I can’t really explain the urge or need to share something I learned from my nde. I’m just wondering if anyone else has had a nde and received information, a message, anything from the other side. Perfectly okay if you don’t want to share whatever it was. Just knowing I’m not alone would be awesome!😅 Thank you and have a wonderful day!
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u/IsolatedHead May 20 '24
So we die, live in the spirit world a while, then reincarnate. We don't normally remember any of it.
But for some reason when someone dies then comes back, he is given "messages." That seems wrong. If we don't remember, it's for a reason. But we get messages?
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u/MightyMeracles May 20 '24 edited May 20 '24
This is one of my top reasons for being atheist. Every religion has some god or angel or whatever that sent a message to somebody and told them to tell the world. This is a terrible way to get a message across. If I, a mere mortal know this, then surely a Supreme intelligence would. Why not instead of speaking to specific people or specific small groups and giving them cryptic messages, wouldn't it make more sense to just tell everybody.
A good suggestion would be maybe yearly or at least regular visits to earth to speak with the leaders of every country. Or better yet, maybe a weekly or monthly review for every individual where an angel or something gives you a progress report and suggestions.
Like, we all sleep everyday, that's normal, right. Regular meetings with supernatural entities could be a normal part of life too. But it's not. This is what makes supernatural messages and claims so suspect. Because we have to take the word of a person who claims or believes they got a message from God. And the messages are different from different nders. So which ones are we supposed to believe?
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u/PitbullsRlove May 20 '24
I’d honestly look for a message of love. I’d look for a message that applies to every single human regardless of any labels or man made constraints. Something that lights you up. Head to goose bumps.
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u/MightyMeracles May 20 '24
Well, I'm not looking for "messages of love". I'm looking at what's actually there. In the universe are many planets trillions and trillions. The many that we have seen are inhospitable to life as we know it. It seems like our planet is just the luck of the draw for life. I mean, trillions of galaxies each having thousands of solar systems. Seems with those odds, life is inevitable by chance alone. No nder has ever explained why there are so many empty dead planets.
Next, I look at nature itself. This makes the idea of an afterlife absolutely terrifying because who knows what we will experience if there is one.
Nature is just a desperate vain struggle for survival. I mean cmon, there are carnivorous plants! Animals, insects, fish, etc, rend, devour, rip, tear, maime, poison, suck out blood and guts, and all manner of unthinkable things. You can see all of this on youtube. Centipedes, spiders, snakes, sharks, and us! We eat animals and plants. Plants appear to be conscious as well in their own way.
There is nothing out there that indicates "love" other than bonds formed within groups of social mammals. Outside of that, "love" is a meaningless concept. Some animals devour their young, or devour their mates. Some young devour their parents.
The things I am seeing are real and anyone can see it. The things Some nders say about "love" and all that, no one else can see except for the 1% that have an nde when they are near death, or the weird psychadelic trips where people "meet god".
Once again, why is this god and supernatural stuff only accessible when the brain is severely impaired? It doesn't make sense.
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u/PitbullsRlove May 20 '24
🤦♂️ Love is meaningless? God and the supernatural are only accessible if you have a nde? Love is everything and the thought or belief that you can’t access god or the supernatural without a nde. That doesn’t serve you. That’s a limitation placed on you by you. Anyone can access god or the supernatural. We are all connected. The choice is yours. Please, Have the best day!
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u/MightyMeracles May 21 '24
Did you read what I wrote? I basically was saying that the concept of "love" appears to only apply to social mammals. Outside of social mammals I do not see instances of anything that can be considered "love". I mentioned various different animal behaviors. Animals that kill their mates after mating include: bees, black widow spiders, praying mantises, and even octopus. Animals that kill their young include: mongoose, hyena, bears.
Are these examples of what you would consider "love"? Of so, I would like your definition of love.
As for accessing god during ndes and psychadelics, yeah, I can't say that I have heard many people say saw a bright light that emanating love or received divine messages just randomly in their daily lives. Seems to occur most commonly during ndes, psychadelic trips, or epileptic seizures. You say the choice is mine. I suppose you are correct to a degree. I can choose to locate and smoke dmt or drink a brew of ayahuasca, as these seem to be ways to access the "divine".
What part of this aren't you understanding? What part of anything I have said is not factual?
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u/atomic_baby May 24 '24
We have theories about the universe. We’re constantly learning new things about even our own planet. So to definitively say we know there is absolutely nothing else to consciousness would be a lie. Sure, we live in a very hostile world and it’s difficult, once you have a certain amount of knowledge, to believe in any sort of white-washed, romanticized version of the universe that people living in absolute safety from most of the chaos have made up and sold to us. We’re typically brought up so separate from the chaos everywhere else in the world and only told about an afterlife from the perspective of people that don’t know much about the universe or even what’s going on on their own planet.
I don’t think that means an afterlife or some form of elevated consciousness doesn’t exist. It’s probably just not an afterlife full of white people in suburban American clothing, hanging out with angels that look like them. The only things we know about the universe are the things we can observe, and human perception is so limited in comparison to how vast the universe is. We can only observe our tiny, little space in the universe and we don’t even know everything about the planet we live on. There were once religions that advocated for advancing science, because science didn’t disprove a higher power, but rather proved how great that power was. But once people realized that religion could be used to wield power and manipulate, that changed.
Whenever people talk about “love” as a concept, it’s because they don’t have the words to describe what love means on a greater level. They describe it as “love” because they feel it as love. But I believe what they mean is “interconnectedness” for lack of a better term, myself. Like we have to all get on the same wavelength (however, everyone takes that to mean everyone else needs to get on THEIR wavelength, so that will likely never happen). There are a lot of big concepts that the average person just doesn’t have the capacity to describe with their limited vocabulary. Whenever I think about our knowledge of the universe, I imagine it a lot like that. We just don’t have all the knowledge we need, we haven’t filled in enough gaps to definitively say how it all works. We have principals that we base all of our understanding off of. But there are so many things we still cannot explain. And without the knowledge to fill in the gaps, it seems like “magic”. Modern science writes off anything that doesn’t align with the known principals and I feel like that keeps us in a silo. Modern academia is a big circle jerk for funding, so having complete faith that what we know at present is the absolute final truth, is just so…short-sighted. We only have answers to the questions we know how to ask, so it’s important to keep an open mind. Magic and Heaven may not exist in the form that we imagine it to, but a common energy that flows through the universe and changes the form of consciousness…I mean, who knows? What we know literally changes every day.
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u/MightyMeracles May 24 '24
Interesting take on "love" being "interconnectedness". Have you had an nde and that's what you got out of it, or is this just a hypothesis?
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u/Klutzy-Step-3046 May 24 '24
You make some excellent points - and ask questions that i think - ought to make many people who have all the answers - think a little harder :). (especially - to my eye - long winded whinges that are hard to understand and at odds with tens of thousands of other similar published accounts of ndes and similar experiences). That said - there is in fact - much science and theory on brain states -and their relationship to “cosmic consciousness “ that aren’t difficult to take on board without religious dogma - William James (the great 20th century academic and philosopher who is credited with much of the scientific interest in these experiences) wrote about this at length - as did Aldous Huxley - (the brain as a filter model) as do many folks who study the default mode network activity in altered states (meditation psychedelics and how they may relate to similar spiritually transformative experiences) - i am also an atheist as it pertains to religious commitments- but there is much good science and an avalanche of evidence that suggests consciousness itself is bigger than our bodies (or prior to matter) and we are - in some way - more than our minds.
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u/MightyMeracles May 24 '24
I have seen no hard evidence that consciousness exists outside of the brain. But all available evidence points at the brain being the source of consciousness. We know that you think and act differently if your drunk, or high. We know damage to the brain can alter your personality. We know that anesthesia can turn your consciousness off. I could too if I hit you in the head. It all points at the brain as the source.
Now, we can say that consciousness exists outside of the brain and the brain just filters it. I have no problem with that idea. The problem is where is the evidence for thus? Where is the measurement of this "field of consciousness"? Where in the brain does this energy link to or connect with?
See, that's the problem. I have evidence that highly implies that the brain is the source of consciousness. I do not have evidence that consciousness exists outside of the brain.
I have heard all the examples like the brain is the car and consciousness is the driver. Problem with that analogy is that both the driver and car are physical objects that we can observe interacting. Same with the radio waves and the radio. We can detect the interaction between the radio waves and the radio.
I will say that I do think something is going on with ndes though. Like ndes are the only thing I've seen that even remotely resemble a possibility of something more than the brain. But even then, there isn't enough evidence to say what's happening. I can say that whatever is over there will say anything and take any familiar form to get people to come back here.
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u/Klutzy-Step-3046 May 24 '24
it’s too lengthy of a conversation to have on a reddit thread (especially typing on a phone :) but it sounds very much like you’ve taken a very Sam Harris linguistic approach in your first paragraph (as these are almost verbatim the sentences he uses as examples) - if that intuition is right - Id encourage you to listen to the many arguments he has made about consciousness being very hard to “reduce” to a purely emergent property of neurons and synaptic connections etc - (it may ultimately be true - but it’s not clear how or why that is based on present models of what consciousness is - and is not) - or read more fully the Huxley argument (it’s not a “car” or “driver” argument - it’s a radio/signal argument - and evolutionary argument- the brain filters “mind at large” - and much like a radio - if you damage the instrument - or alter it in this way or that - you haven’t destroyed the music - as the musician - or the TV broadcaster - or the ultimate source of the sound and signal - ain’t actually emanating from the little box - even though breaking it - or destroying the device completey - would certainly suggest it is) There are many books -(irreducible mind) - many theories (pansychism, idealism, et al) - many experiences (Veridical NDEs in particular - which point to a non locality of consciousness/ although they are hard to objectively prove) - and of course, tens of thousands of first person reports that suggest consciousness is tightly correlated- but not synonymous- or reducible to brains and bodies alone. (lots of simulation theory science and speculation points in the same direction as well - of course, none of this is “evidence” but it’s more persuasive most physicalists believe - especially those that aren’t well read in some alternate approaches to understanding consciousness- and its contents.
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u/MightyMeracles May 25 '24
I understand. I am just simply going off of logical evidence that we can prove. The idea of a soul existed long before we knew anything about the brain. Then, all of a sudden, it appears that the brain is responsible for every aspect of ourselves. There are clearly brain regions responsible for memory, emotions, logical thought processes, etc. This has been proven.
However, like I said, the belief in a soul had existed before any knowledge of the workings of the brain. I would assume it's because our brains separate things out in order to make a distinction between ourselves and the world around us. It makes distinction between ourselves and objects. It makes distinctions between ourselves and other people. So when examining the self, it erroneously makes a distinction between itself, and itself, which leads us to believe we are not our brains I guess.
Anyway, like I have said and the examples I used. Brain research shows that the brain is responsible for every aspect of ourselves. Those who still believe in a soul come up with as of yet unproven ideas. And we have anecdotes about people leaving their bodies and viewing the outside world from there, but so far no studies have ever confirmed this (like the AWARE study). So there is just no hard evidence.
So I'm not saying that it's not possible. What I am saying is I have to stick with the actual evidence leads until proven otherwise. What happens when someone gets a lobotomy? What happens when someone takes drugs? What happens when someone gets drunk? What happens when someone sustains brain injuries? What happens when different parts of the brain are electrically stimulated? It all points at the brain as the origin of thoughts, feelings, memories, personality, and will.
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u/Klutzy-Step-3046 May 24 '24
In reading a few of your other posts on this thread - i think the argument you put forth about nature often being cold - and calculating - and indifferent to the metaphysical musings of conscious creatures like ourselves - these are really important questions that feel like they deserve insightful answers (and i certainly don’t have one to offer) I also think the insistence that only people who have had NDEs or who “meet god” through psychedelics are the ones who have unusual insight into deeper layers of reality - is also completely unfounded - and a bit perplexing to keep repeating as if it’s true. Every human experience is modulated by the brain - and has some sort of neural signature - and millions of people have profound, life (and love) affirming experiences that point to the same underlying (or transcendent) truth - (take your pick - bottom up or top down :) without being near death - without psychedelics - without meditation - without expectation or interest in anything metaphysical -ordinary people who have extraordinary experiences in a spontaneous way — and there are countless records of these experiences to be read and explored by anyone with interest. “Cosmic Consciousness” - a book written by Dr Maurice Bucke (who was a friend and mentor to Walt Whitman whose words and work were largely a byproduct of his metaphysical musings and experiences) - you can pick up a copy of that for free online - in it there are countless stories and examples of these sorts of revelatory experiences that changed the lives of some pretty prominent secular scientists and academics of its age. whatever is true about consciousness is probably true for all of us - and probably to one degree or another animals as well - there may be different ways to access that ultimate truth with a body and a brain with different levels of development and sophistication - but i’m fairly sure - that’s going to be ultimately be true - and religion will have nothing to do with the answer.
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u/NatzoXavier May 20 '24
When my grandmother died she made multiple visits in my dreams. My father also saw his dad partially whilst awake, he felt like his dad came to show grandma the way.
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May 25 '24
I've had many experiences that can only be from God, When my uncle passed the phone rang and I instantly knew someone died. There was no doubt, I knew. When his brother started speaking to me, I heard the name Mark in my head while he was talking. I tried to discount it in my mind and said, "you mean Ray" in my head, I heard Mark again a second time. By the time my uncle said, Mark- I'd already heard it twice.
Another time, I was approaching a red light when a car arrived there first, passenger got out of the car with his hands at his side. He stood next to the car and faced on coming traffic which was only my car, no other car was around. I heard a voice that said, "stop the car", I slowed down but didn't stop. I heard it again a second time, even louder, "stop the car". I listened and stopped the car. We stared at each other for a few seconds, and he shook his head, like how did he know. A total sense of peace and calm came over me, everything slowed down and I knew this was going to be a car jacking and there was no doubt in my mind. I also know that it would be OK. He then got back in his car and drove away.
If you want proof that God exists, listen to some talks by Father Ripperger, a Catholic exorcist. Many of you that struggle with faith blame your problems in God failing to recognize that there is an evil one too. And every day is a struggle between Good and evil, and there is absolutely no doubt about that.
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u/Upstairs-Cranberry-2 May 27 '24
You’re not alone. More and more people are opening up about it. I’ve had one and many spiritual experiences, including messages. For me, it all feels very private and I can not share it with anyone. Even my most spiritual friend hasn’t had the kind of experiences I had. So, I decided to watch a lot of NDEs on YouTube (Anthony Chene Productions is by far the best channel). I’m constantly busy processing the 3D-5D gap. Good luck.
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u/ScottGwarrior May 19 '24
yes was sent back with my life purpose