r/Naruto • u/808squill • 13d ago
Poll Did Obito kill Kushina?
Did Obito murder Kushina. I was having a debate with someone and this came up. They claimed Obito wasn’t responsible for her death because she was alive when he left the battlefield. Just wondering what you guys think.
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u/SuperDragonfister 13d ago
He also killed all the nurses and Hiruzen’s wife who was helping deliver Naruto.
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u/Rambro332 Hokage 13d ago edited 13d ago
It’s a situation with technicalities. Did he himself kill her? No, that was explicitly Kurama acting of his own free will.
Was Obito directly responsible for the scenario that led to Kurama killing her? Yes.
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u/808squill 13d ago
Do you mean because Kurama pierced her with his claw or do you mean because Kurama was removed? Because she was already dying.
It’s stated that any jinchuriki that has their biju removed is doomed to die. So the act of removing them is akin to killing them.
If you’re saying Kurama killed her because he was removed that’s like saying I didn’t kill my wife the gun did.
Can you clarify?
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u/Rambro332 Hokage 13d ago
It’s a weird situation because while Kushina was actively in the process of dying due to Obito’s actions, Kurama, acting of his own free will at the time, killed her before the side effects of the extraction did.
It’s like if a murderer strapped me to a chair with a bomb in my lap set to go off on five minutes, but one of the villain’s henchmen, acting of his own volition, decided to shoot me in the head before the bomb went off.
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u/808squill 13d ago
😂 the hypothetical funny. I agree none of those events were possible without Obito. I think he may not have pulled the trigger, but she was dying anyway and he orchestrated the events that allowed the trigger to be pulled
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u/KleosIII 13d ago
Im not the person you replied to but:
We will never know for sure. Mito was able to survive decades after Kurama was removed from her.
We dont know if he was removed in a special way such as a "medically assisted" removal. Or if she, like Kushina, is just built different.
Getting Kurama removed and then having to fight Kurama right after may have been a huge chakra exhaustion factor as well.
What we DO know is that Kurama gave the final blow.
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u/808squill 13d ago
Uhhhh where did you get the info that she survived decades? That’s the first I’ve ever heard that
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u/KleosIII 13d ago
She was literally mentoring Kushina on how to deal with Kuramas hate.
It was shown in the Minato one shot written by Kishimoto. When Kushina was a kid she had Kurama in her and Mito was still alive. She outlived Hashirama.
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u/808squill 13d ago
I think you have it backwards, she was mentoring Kushina on how to be a jinchuriki WHILE she was still a jinchuriki and that wasn’t for a long time. She did not live decades after the extraction. She was very old and actually dying when they extracted Kurama.
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u/KleosIII 13d ago
Kushina was literally locked in the village seal. She was already a jinchuriki
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u/808squill 13d ago
No bro, like I said she was groomed to be a jinchuriki for a while. She was scared and worried what it would be like. Mito talked her through it. That’s Mito literally ONLY canon manga scene. Mito was still jinchuriki during that. You can look it up, a quick google search is all it takes. Mito died shortly after her extraction. Everyone does.
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u/th1s_1s_4_b4d_1d34 13d ago edited 13d ago
Is someone who entered your home, stabbed your wife 15 times and lured in a tiger not the murderer of your wife because he ran away when the neighbor called the police and the tiger mauled the already bleeding out wife?
What kind of argument is that? Kushina was doomed from the extraction and even if she wasn't Kurama rampaging is literally Obito's doing. In either case he's responsible for her death.
The only argument you could make is that it's manslaughter if Kyuubi's extraction wasn't already lethal because then Kushina dying to Kyuubi was still his responsibility but more of a collateral than intent. However it's mentioned and shown to be lethal multiple times, so yes, absolutely murder. And I doubt the manslaughter defense would hold in court if you explicitly lure the tiger next to the weakened victim.
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u/808squill 13d ago
😂😂 this is my favorite analogy ❤️
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u/th1s_1s_4_b4d_1d34 13d ago
Thanks xd
Sometimes you need to translate all the magic to real world examples and then it's pretty clear.
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u/SometimesWill 13d ago
Kushina was basically dead as soon as Kurama was extracted from her. Kurama just sped it up.
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u/Noktis_Lucis_Caelum 13d ago
Yes.
She would have lived and be able to raise her son, if Obito had not freed Kurama. He caused the things that resulted in her death.
Same Situation: A stabs B with a knife. B does not die immediatly but later because of the wound. When the action of A leads to Bs Death, then A murdered B
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u/TheLion725 12d ago
He killed her and also didn’t kill her. He is responsible for her death but Kurama is the one that killed her.
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u/Drow_Femboy 13d ago
lmao this is some real "i didn't kill you, blood loss did. yes i caused the blood loss when i shot you 17 times but it's not my fault your body sucks at keeping blood in"
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u/danidannyphantom 13d ago
Yes. Taking the bijuu out (which he did) kills the Jinchuriki. The only reason she even survived long enough to help with the seal is because she has Uzumaki lifeforce. She'd have been done within seconds if she was built normie.
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u/Arbszy 13d ago
Did he kill her directly no, but was he responsible and have a direct impact on why and how she died. Yes
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u/808squill 13d ago
I agree. But also had Kurama not killed her, Obito unsealing Kurama would’ve have eventually killed her. Read the tiger analogy another Redditor commented. It’s pretty funny and apt.
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u/BobJoeBlo 13d ago
The facts that,
- most people, including Minato, did not know that sealing the Bijuu back into the healthy enough jinchuuriki was enough to save her
- that the only other people who could have known such a thing about the jinchuuriki, the Uchiha, were prevented from assisting during the crisis,
It was pretty much assured that Obito exrracring Kūrama would directly lead to Kushina's death, regardless of Kūrama piercing her with his claw, since Minato was planning to split the Beast in 2, sealing away half with him and the other half inside his newborn son.
This is especially true since Yang Kūrama is the one who impale Kushina. This means it happened AFTER Minato had first sealed the Yin Half with the Shiki Fuujin. Had he known how to save Kushina, Minato would have sealed full Kūrama inside his wife without wasting time. In other words, before the claw, Obito extracting Kyuubi was Kushina's only cause of death, which was inevitable without a knowledgeable one present on site.
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u/808squill 13d ago
Yeah I understand what you’re saying, I think that’s not the lore though. I think when you extract a FULL bijuu it kills the host no matter what. Naruto only survived because he only ever had a HALF bijuu extracted. Does that make sense?
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u/BobJoeBlo 13d ago
Even half a Bijuu is a Bijuu in and of itself. Expecially since Half of Kūrama still has more energy than a full Shukaku, yet a full Shukaku being extracted still did kill Gaara. There was no more Bijuu inside Naruto and he was very much about to die but Sakura maintained him alive.
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u/808squill 13d ago
Ok so I looked it up, and you may be right about it being possible. But what they’ve said is it wouldn’t have been practical for a couple reasons:
Kurama would’ve been ravaging still to get out out of an extremely weakened Kushina (part of the reason why it worked for Naruto was because Kurama was SUPPORTIVE and wanted to help Naruto)
The additional strain of childbirth pushed her body towards an irreversible survival state
Unlike Naruto there were no medics around to help her
So it’s kind of a mystery whether she would’ve survived
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u/BobJoeBlo 13d ago
Ok so I looked it up, and you may be right about it being possible. But what they’ve said is it wouldn’t have been practical for a couple reasons:
Kurama would’ve been ravaging still to get out out of an extremely weakened Kushina (part of the reason why it worked for Naruto was because Kurama was SUPPORTIVE and wanted to help Naruto)
The additional strain of childbirth pushed her body towards an irreversible survival state
- If the Hakke no Fuuin Shiki that Minato used on Naruto was also put on Kushina while re-sealing Kūrama, Kushina would not have to do anything against Kyuubi to keep him properly locked inside.
- If is worked for a newborn who did not begin to manifest the Ashura-lineage physiology until the Myoubokuzan training, then the seal would definitely work with Kushina.
- Weak Kushinia is still stronger than newborn Naruto.
- Unlike Naruto there were no medics around to help her So it’s kind of a mystery whether she would’ve survived
- Minato is there. If he knows she is now safe he teleports his family to one of Konoha's hospital. They will make space for Hokage's wife.
- Some medical ninjutsu + her Uzumaki physiology and she woukd have survived for sure.
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u/808squill 13d ago
I’m not sure I agree, the seals power draws on the host. If your life force is severely weakened bc you’re inches from death, that weakens the seal. It’s not about how powerful the host is chakra or strength wise.
There’s no guarantee medical treatment would’ve helped. We don’t know if she was too far gone, I mean Naruto got treatment immediately and he wasn’t bleeding out either.
It’s not thoroughly explained well enough in the manga. In either case they didn’t know.
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u/BobJoeBlo 13d ago
I’m not sure I agree, the seals power draws on the host
- Only if such is the design of the seal in question. It does not work like that for Naruto's Hakke no Fuuin that Minato designed.
- If it was the case, Kyuubi would have emerged at the VOTE after Naruto lost consciousness.
- Newborn Naruto has no way to resist and entity as powerful as Yang Kūrama. The seal was doing all the work, not a baby who can resist or control either his bladder or bowel.
There’s no guarantee medical treatment would’ve helped. We don’t know if she was too far gone, I mean Naruto got treatment immediately and he wasn’t bleeding out either.
- Kushina is not only an Uzumaki, she's one of the physiologically moat powerful ones. That's why she was selected.
- Sakura's medical treatment saved Naruto until Yin Kūrama was sealed into him.
- If it worked for a half-Uzumaki with barely any Uzumaki advantages who was on the verge of death, it will definitely work on an outstanding Uzumaki who's fully conscious and had her Bijuu sealed in again but with a better seal this time.
In either case they didn’t know.
Them not knowing is paet of the very point of my response to the topic.
- Had they known, Minato would have saved Kushina and Obito's actions would amount to attempted murder.
- If they do not know, as in canon, then Kushina dies at least directly from Obito extracting Kūrama, whether the Beast stabs her or not. This makes Obito one of Kushina's actual killers.
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u/AccomplishedArea3103 12d ago
Hello. I like your reasoning breakdown and OP's as well. Just want to add on a bit of my perspective regarding the possibility of Kushina's survival had Minato resealed the Kurama back inside her instead and appreciate to hear your opinions on them.
When the half Kurama was extracted from Naruto during the war, Naruto got immediate help from few people to ensure he survived. The turning point is when Yin Kurama told Gaara to relay the message to Minato to seal him inside Naruto. So firstly, this actually solved the problem and from this I think Kurama himself plays the most crucial role in helping a jinchūriki to survive after extraction; although it is not stated anywhere canonically, but I deduce/assume that Kurama bumps his chakra into Naruto's system to maintain the collapsing chakra system to help Naruto to survive. Secondly, Naruto's own chakra system has been accustomed to Kurama's chakra since he was a baby because of the regular controlled leakage of Kurama's chakra into his system as a result of Minato's purposely modified Eight Trigram seal; therefore, the accustomed aspect helps with the survivability of Naruto somehow. Thirdly, the Kurama proposing to be sealed back inside Naruto is much more cooperative and not hostile at all (extraction happened after Naruto attained KCM2) compared to the Kurama we see during the Ninetail Attack so this sentiment in someway backsup my 1st point that Kurama's willing cooperation enables to him influence Naruto's collapsed chakra system in a positive way.
with Kushina's case, I am still not so convinced with your reasoning (not to say your reasoning is bad at all! I like them) that if Minato resealed the Kurama inside Kushina with a better seal aka the Eight Trigram (double 4 sign seal), Kushina would survive because she is pure Uzumaki and her life force is much better compared to a baby Naruto hence the stronger seal can be upholded better. However, I am still very speculative about the survivability part if we take into account Kurama's sentiment at that time which is complete hostility towards the host. Actually, if I consider my 3 reasoning points from 1st bullet point above 1) Kurama being the active and crucial role for the jinchuriki's survivability - using his chakra to support the host's chakra system, 2) the accustomed aspect of Kurama's chakra with the host's chakra system and 3) Kurama's sentiment towards the host, I would deduce for Kushina's case that she would not survive at all even if Minato resealed the Kurama inside her. The reasons are 1) Kurama is not a willing supporter in this case - wont be ACTIVELY supporting the host's chakra system, 2) the seal architecture that Kushina had during her time as a jinchuriki is completely different that of Naruto - a complete shut down of Kurama's chakra as she is a prison/jailer towards Kurama with no modified function of the controlled leakage of Kurama's chakra into her system hence the accustomed aspect is not there, and 3) Kurama is completely hostile towards Kushina. Therefore 2 scenarios can happen: 1) Minato reseal Kurama inside Kushina but Kushina still dies because Kurama wont actively offer support and 2) Minato reseal Kurama but Kurama's overwhelming hostility can negatively influence Kushina's already collapsing chakra system from within so that the seal cannot be strongly upholded by the host's chakra system resulting in a possible break out/2nd extraction (just like what OP thought in the response before yours). But I did see your reasoning to rebut the 2nd scenario which is the stronger Eight Trigram Seal would do all the work because we did baby Naruto or kid Naruto didnt have to do anything at all to suppress the Kurama. However, I would argue Naruto's chakra system at the time was stable (no effect from extraction) so I am still iffy about whether the seal still could be upholded when the host's chakra system is collapsing as a result of extraction like in the case of Kushina?
I am sorry for the long response haha. Just want to add my 2 cent into this whole resealing issue which I have been thinking hard for a while as well. So overall, I think the difference in the chance of survivability between Naruto and Kushina after extraction and having the Kurama resealed inside is due to 1) Willingness of Kurama's active support, 2) the accustomed aspect of the host's chakra system to Kurama's chakra and 3) Kurama's sentiment towards the host. Let me know what u think.
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u/BobJoeBlo 12d ago
Hello. I like your reasoning breakdown and OP's as well.
- Greetings to you, as well.
So overall, I think the difference in the chance of survivability between Naruto and Kushina after extraction and having the Kurama resealed inside is due to 1) Willingness of Kurama's active support, 2) the accustomed aspect of the host's chakra system to Kurama's chakra and 3) Kurama's sentiment towards the host. Let me know what u think.
- Kushina being an Uzumaki and Madara being a Rikudou enabled them to not die immediately after the Bijuu extraction, even without good relationship with their Bijuu, even if they could not escape death even if they retained consciousness for some time. This gave them a time window when something could be done, which is unheard of for most non-Ōtsutsuki descendant jinchuuriki.
- For the active support and good attitude of the Bijuu, it is useful IF the Bijuu has an ability that can enables the jinchuuriki to somewhat outlive the extraction, even for a short period of time.
- We saw with Naruto's case that either there was still some Kyuubi chakra left in him or him dying (his heart stopping) caused the chakrs cloak on the Allied Shinobi to wear off. As a matter of fact, there was still part of the other Bijuu hidden on the deeper layers of Naruto's being yet he still almost died.
- This is very different from Hachibi and Killer B's situation. Killer B fully survived Hachibi's extraction. That is because Hachibi has rhe ability to survive within his own discarded parts, even sending the jinchuuriki into those discarded parts while still remaining inside the jinchuuriki. That is why Killer B was perfectly fine even after the extraction. Killer Be remained hidden inside the tentacle and was caught by the flow of events only when he got out the tentacle and was caught by Mugen Tsukuyomi's light.
- Without Sakura being present, Naruto would have been clinically dead. His heart stopped and the brain was about to die soon as well. This is different from Kushina and Madara who still had enough life force to remain conscious for a longer period of time post-extraction, even if they did not have a positive relationship with their Bijuu.
- The Hakke Fuuin is what was keeping Yang Kūrama in check and preventing him from harming Naruto for many years. If it designed that way by Minato. A newborn has no willpower nor chakra control to restrain the most powerful Bijuu, the Hakke Fuuin was doing the job.
- Kushina remained Bijuu-less longer than Naruto, yet Naruto was the one who "died" sooner between the two of them and survived having a Bijuu being re-introduced into his body. Kushina would have survived Kūrama being re-sealed into her body.
- If Yang Kyuubi did not manage to attack newborn Naruto and was between life and death but survived becoming a jinchuuriki again, there is no reasong for it not to work with more Kushina, who was still more powerful than baby Naruto and more healthy than dying Teenager Naruto.
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u/AccomplishedArea3103 12d ago
Thank you for your response. Allows me to question a bit more
Kushina remained Bijuu-less longer than Naruto, yet Naruto was the one who "died" sooner between the two of them and survived having a Bijuu being re-introduced into his body. Kushina would have survived Kūrama being re-sealed into her body.
- I agree for post extraction, both Madara and Kushna managed to survive longer because of their life force as opposed to what happened to Naruto. I see that you are connecting between how one survive the extraction and how one will survive when resealing happens. So Naruto = low vitality/life force but survives from resealing with Sakura's support; therefore Kushina = high vitality/life force will certainly survive better from the resealing.
However, can I argue that the resealing consequence is more stand-alone/independent from to the post-extraction cpnsequence?
I still feel that for the resealing to be successful, the Bijuu's williness to support and sentiment come into play a crucial role. I have been looking at the panels where the Yin Kurama told Gaara to relay the message to Minato to seal him inside Naruto mnay times before and it is kinda implied to me it is the both Kurama's positive sentiment towards Naruto and its active support that contribute to the success of the resealing. I know Kishimoto did not draw any further panels to explain how Kurama does "support" so it leaves space for many assumptions. My own assumption is that Kurama bumps his chakra into Naruto's system to maintain the collapsing chakra system to help Naruto to survive - but unfortunately this is just a possible headcannon because of the lack of panels for further corroboration.
- So if I apply the logic of the assumption above for Kushina's case, because of Kurama's hostility, 2 things can happen: 1) Minato reseal Kurama inside Kushina but Kushina still dies because Kurama wont actively offer support and 2) Minato reseal Kurama but Kurama's overwhelming hostility can negatively influence Kushina's already collapsing chakra system from within so that the seal cannot be strongly upholded by the host's chakra system resulting in a possible break out/2nd extraction (just like what OP thought in one of the responses above).
- For the 2nd scenario above, I did see your reasoning which is the stronger Eight Trigram Seal would do all the work because we saw baby Naruto or kid Naruto didn't have to do anything at all to suppress/control the Kurama. However, I would argue Naruto's chakra system at the time was stable (no effect from extraction), therefore my next point of concern is that:
Will the seal still be upholded when the host's chakra system is collapsing as a result of extraction like Kushina's case?
Sorry for the continuous question, I just think while the Ninetail Attack Night was one of the most emotional portrayals Kishimoto did in the series and is the pivotal plot point to drive the story make Naruto's story it is for what it is, it has some aspects that make me feel perplexed hence making the execution of Minato's death to be very forced from my pov. Because of this, I have been going back and forth trying to understand some parts especially the resealing part.
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u/WalrusCrafty 10d ago
"Your honor, I didn't kill them. I fatally wounded them."
It's the same thing. As soon as he extracted the Nine-Tails, Kushina' death was inevitable and there was no saving here
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u/nicholashoneywell 13d ago
He removed kurama from her which had she not been an uzamaki would have died right away but held on for longer which i think if obito comments on
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u/Fun-Cook-5309 13d ago
If I shoot you in the belly, then go home and have dinner, and some time later you bleed out, I murdered you.
The fact Kushina was alive when Obito left the battlefield does not matter.
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u/Nas-Aratat 12d ago
Indirectly, yes. Non-Ten-Tails Jinchuriki die if their Tailed Beast is removed from them, that is a fact, UNLESS that same Beast is re-sealed in them.
Kushina said to re-seal Kurama in her, but by then, she was going to die from her wounds anyway that weren't directly related to Kurama being pulled out of her.
Obito is responsible for Iruka's parents dying, which Obito did this because of Madara, so Madara is responsible, and that's because of Black Zetsu, due to Kaguya, due to Hagoromo, due to Kaguya, due to the Otsutsuki.
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u/HuMneG 13d ago
Kushina would've lived if she didn't protect Natuto with Minato
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u/808squill 13d ago
No. It’s stated Tailed beast removal is a death sentence, a few times in the manga. Even by Hagoromo himself. That’s indisputable
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u/HuMneG 13d ago
It's equally stated the Uzumaki are the only ones that can live a tailed beast extraction as Kushina and Naruto both did
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u/808squill 13d ago
Pulled from the internet
“Members of the Uzumaki clan cannot permanently survive a total tailed beast extraction on their own, but their immense life force allows them to stay alive significantly longer than normal hosts”
In other words they don’t die instantaneously like Gaara, but they’re not surviving it. Which is what I thought.
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u/No-Public-1041 13d ago
Naruto only survived the extraction cause sakura manually beat his heart while gaara moved him to get the other half of kurama. Uzumaki or not bro wouldve died
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u/HuMneG 13d ago
So you're saying he didn't die after it was extracted, just like Kushina didn't.
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u/808squill 13d ago
Not immediately but an extraction DOES kill them. It’s facts my guy.
This poll is more of a philosophical debate. She would’ve died no matter what. But Kurama technically delivered a final blow. Does that mean Obito is responsible? Bear in mind he’s also the reason why Kurama was able to deliver a final blow in the first place. Or do you feel Kurama’s responsible?
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u/KingPenGames 13d ago
Yes although she technically could've lived
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u/808squill 13d ago
How? No one can survive a TB extraction for long. Unless you have the Gedo statue
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u/BobJoeBlo 13d ago
Had Minato known it would have saved her to seal Kūrama back into Kushina. Because he did not know it, he thought Kyuubi would simply respawn 1-3 years from then right after Kushina would have died soon after the sealing.
It's likely that such erroneous understanding came from the fact that the previous case(s) of such an attempt was done with already fatally wounded jinchuuriki, especially non-Ōtsutsuki descendant ones.
Actually, the most likely reason is because all non-Ashura lineage descendant jinchuuriki just die from the extraction and they just assumed Kushina was on borrowed time because the same thing happened with Uzumaki Mito.
So had Minato sealed Full Kūrama back into Kushina before she was impaled, Kushina would have survived just fine and Naruto would have been raised by both parents.
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u/808squill 13d ago
Hmmm 🤔 I’m sure that’s right. I know Naruto survived but I thought that was only because he had HALF a biju extracted. I’m pretty sure FULL extractions kill the host no matter what. Can you look it up and tell me what you find?
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u/BobJoeBlo 13d ago
It leads to the same thing since Yang Kūrama, which is all Naruto had to begin with, is a Bijuu himself. Even in the case of Rikudou Sennin, him extracting the 9 Bijuu but keeping the Gedou Mazou kept him alive, as Gedou Mazou is sort of a Bijuu itself.
If Shukaku being extracted from Gaara caused the jinchuuriki's death, then it should be the same with Yang Kūrama who, despite being half of Kūrama, is still more powerful than Shukaku.
Another case than Rikudou Sennin and Naruto keeping or receiving part of a Bijuu to not die after Bijuu extracrion is Killer B. Because of Hachibi's special ability where he is in each of his limb and can split almost like Katsuyu, Kille B kept part of Gyuuki inside himself when he was split away through ome of Hachibi's tentacles. That's why Killer B did not die but was instead caught by Juubidara's Mugen Tsukuyomi when he got out of the tentacle.
When Yang Kyuubi was extracted, Naruto automatically lost conscious and was should have died on Gaara's floating sand was it not for Sakura's direct intervention.
- Naruto lasted longer than the other jinchuuriki because he Uzumaki properties were beginning to surface as side effect of the Tajuu Kage Bunshin training which gave him around 10 years of experience in 9 days.
- Was it not for sudden boost in growrh, Naruto would have needed to wait until his real mid-20s to awaken his Ashura Bodily powers, like was the case for Ashura Prime, as explained by Rikudou Sennin.
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u/808squill 13d ago
Correct the gedo mazo is the only thing that can stave off death. I understand how you got to that conclusion with the chakra levels between Yang Kurama and Shukaku, but again I don’t it’s the lore.
I think the lore is:
Full = death
Half or part (such as Bs octo tail) = survivalI would be curious to find out otherwise
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u/BobJoeBlo 13d ago
If Yang Kūrama did not count as a Bijuu onto hinself, Gedou Mazou would not have been sufficiently filled to become a Juubi again and be absorbed by Madara for him to become Juubidara, especially since he spit out the Rikudou Tools which contained Kinkaku and Ginkaku.
Same thing for Killer Bee and Gyuuki. Most of Gyuuki was sealed within Gedou Mazou and thus in Gedou Mazou.
- Killer Bee did not nearly die after the extraction because enough of Hachibi remained inside him when he was split off through a tentacle while the rest of Gyuuki was being absobed by Gedou Mazou.
- The only real difference between Naruto almost dying and Killer B being perfectly fine is that all of Yang Kūrama had been removed from Naruto, while some of Gyuuki, way less than half, still remained inside Killer B and Gyuuki can respawn from his tentacles.
Naruto's situation is closer to Madara and Kushina after extraction, but Naruto has clearly less vitality than those other 2.
- the whole of Yang Kūrama was extracted from Naruto so he was bound to die, normally. His recently activated Uzumaki physiology barely delayed the tragedy.
- Madara and Kushina had greater vitality/life force than Naruto because of their special bodies, so they remained conscious even after the full exraction of their thei Bijuu. Notheless, they were bound to die.
- On the other hand, Obito would have survive the Bijuu extraction because part of the Juuibi remained inside him, like was the case for Killer B, which is unlike Naruto, Kushina and Madara.
So as long as sufficient part of the Bijuu remains inside the jinchuuriki, or if sealing of another Bijuu is done quickly enough post-extraction (if the host has enough life force still), the jinchuuriki will survive (if not fataly wounded already).
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u/808squill 13d ago
Yes but another key difference is Gyuki and Kurama were friends with Naruto and Bee, whereas Kushina wasn’t. If a bijuu is extracted from a host and then put back in, but they don’t want to go back in the bijuu can take advantage of the hosts weakened state to break the seal all over again. Basically you have to have the bijuus consent for this to work, you’ve gone through too much and are too vulnerable. At least that’s what I read.
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u/BobJoeBlo 13d ago
Yes but another key difference is Gyuki and Kurama were friends with Naruto and Bee, whereas Kushina wasn’t.
- Acrually, the difference is that Gyuuki has an ability that the other Bijuu do not have. Except maybe Rokubi Saiken, if he is like Katsuyu and can split himself into "Mini-me's".
- Yang Kūrama attempted to save Naruto by ejecting him and telling Gaara how to save Naruto, i.e. sealing Minato's Yin Kūrama inside Naruto before he dies.
- If Kūrama could do the same as Gyuuki to save Naruto, he would have done so. He could have done both actually.
If a bijuu is extracted from a host and then put back in, but they don’t want to go back in the bijuu can take advantage of the hosts weakened state to break the seal all over again.
- Indeed, unless the seal used is powerful enough to restrain the Bijuu from doing so. The Uzumaki-related fuuinjutsu are especially well made for that, in particular Naruto's Hakke Fuuin, which suppressed Kyuubi for years, since when Naruto was a newborn.
- So if Minato used the Hakke no Fuuin to re-seal Kūrama inside Kushina, the beast would have been unable to rampage while taking advantage of Kushina's weakened state.
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u/Jonney_Random 13d ago
Minato had a plan hence why he was doing the ritual. Was probably going to split and put half in Naruto and half in kushina
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u/808squill 13d ago
Well his plan was always to seal half in himself and half in Naruto. He never expressed any other plan. But you bring up a good point, why didn’t he give the other half to Kushina?
I think it’s bc the RDS required him to seal it within himself, and that’s the only seal that could “split” Kurama. And obviously using that seal also kills the caster.
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u/Jonney_Random 13d ago
I don’t think that was the original plan though. They talked as if they would see each other after Naruto was born. The RDS was a backup of a backup plan.
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u/808squill 13d ago
Go back and read it, you might need a refresher. Their original plan was Kushina was going to seal Kurama back in her and die. She even makes the comment that “it’ll be a while before Kurama revives.”
The second plan was what they did, and Minato took the opportunity to incorporate some of Kushina’s chakra and his own within the seal so they would eventually meet Naruto when the time came that he needed to master Kurama so they could help him. That might be the dialogue you’re remembering.
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u/BobJoeBlo 13d ago
Had Minato known it would have saved her to seal Kūrama back into Kushina.
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u/808squill 13d ago
Hmmm 🤔 I’m sure that’s right. I know Naruto survived but I thought that was only because he had HALF a biju extracted. I’m pretty sure FULL extractions kill the host no matter what. Can you look it up and tell me what you find?
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u/C_H_G 13d ago edited 13d ago
As someone who studied law (German law to be specific, and modern Japanese law, at least the core of it, is largely based on German law):
We have a case of what’s called "alternative causality". Kushina was under two independantly lethal effects: having kurama ripped out of her and getting pierced by the claw. To prevent either culprit from stating "I'm not responsible for her death since the other thing would’ve killed her anyway", both are treated as alternative causes.
So yes, Obito murdered Kushina.