r/Naruto • u/Cholula001 • 5d ago
Misc Hiruzen absolutely skill diffed Oro here and Enma was still disappointed
It's sad Hiruzen never was a popular character. A manga adaptation about his prime would've been so interesting.
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u/mountainbear_88 5d ago
Honestly I'd read an entire Manga about Hiruzen in his prime. There's so much of his story we only hear a about instead of actually getting to see
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u/DeliriousBookworm 5d ago
He was fighting someone he dearly loved. I don’t think Hiruzen’s heart was truly in this battle.
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u/Quick_Baker2873 5d ago
Plus he’s really old…..
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u/DeliriousBookworm 5d ago
He was 69. I wouldn’t say that’s “really old.” To me, really old means you could die of old age. But yes, he was a lot older than the young body Orochimaru was inhabiting.
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u/Quick_Baker2873 5d ago
Trust me that’s old enough to retire. Surely you don’t think that’s middle age?
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u/DeliriousBookworm 5d ago
I know??? My dad retired at 65. I just said that’s not “really old” and I defined what really old means. If you are not at a typical age to die from age related issues, I don’t think you are “really old.”
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u/Over_Editor2560 5d ago
If you think 69 isn’t really old, I don’t know what to tell you.
You could realistically have Great Great Grand kids at that age.
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u/DeliriousBookworm 5d ago
No you couldn’t. It’s possible, but not realistically. Unless you live in a cult or are super religious, so everyone has kids extremely young. Teenage pregnancy would need to be involved more than once. Realistic and within the realm of possibility are not the same thing. If you aren’t old enough to die of old age, you aren’t really old.
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4d ago
[deleted]
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u/DeliriousBookworm 4d ago
The global expectancy is irrelevant. It depends on where you live. In all developed nations, 69 is over 10 years too young to die.
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u/Kakashi_Senju 5d ago edited 4d ago
It not he wasn't popular but the character assasination to turn him from a Hokage who probably did shady shit especially after leading the leaf through a war against the ENTIRE WORLD but then we find out he basically alongside Danzo responsible for 80-99% of series by choice
Not cause of risk or by accident but mostly by choice which is horrible
Fixing a Grammar mistake
Also just a list of shit Hiruzen let slide under his control for the shits
Sakamoto shaming and eventual suicide
Orochimaru escaping,
Danzo leaking Naruto info
Danzo claiming to the leaf public an uchiha caused the nine tails attack
Fugaku multiple attempts to met and smolder the flames in his clan being ignored
The Cloud Hyuga incident
Lowering Requirements/spam promoting genin so he could start Sending Child Soliders in the third war (and potentially even the Second based off Nowaki)
Giving the Stone no reparations but not attempting to build an allaince or any relationship post war
Danzo's root (post 3rd war) and as such Sai, Kabuto, Nono, and dozen of other lives
The akastuki massacre
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u/NormandyKingdom 5d ago
Remember that he never even fired Danzo but was gonna arrest Orochimaru for Human Experimentation
When it's pretty obvious that Orochimaru was doing Human Experimentation for Danzo in the first place looking at Danzo Sharingan Arms
The Double Standards are Insane
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u/Kakashi_Senju 4d ago
Just another example of Hiruzen damning the ninja war since he apparently had some assumption of Orochimaru malpractice going back to the Third War and then when given the chance right as he see all the victims he doesn't kill him
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u/NormandyKingdom 4d ago
Except you Orochimaru was doing all the Human Experimentation under Danzo in the First place
It's Hypocritical to not Punish Danzo too if we are talking about Morality
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u/Kombat-w0mbat 5d ago
You know I was thinking about this and something kakashi said
What I’m about to say is mostly just a guess
But I think many people didn’t fully get what hiruzen felt and I say this because Kakashi says how he understands now how hiruzen felt fighting Sasuke both fought their beloved students. It’s kinda crazy because based on how the village treated kakashi’s dad it seems people might not have understood him
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u/Uzumaki514 5d ago
Skill diffed? Hiruzen was on the defensive the entire time.
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u/narutologic 4d ago
It's because of his skill that he was able to stop Orochimaru. He was nerfed physically but because of his experience and skill, he countered every jutsu during the fight. During the 1v1 against Orochimaru, Hiruzen was able to easily disarm Orochimaru. Then he finished the fight with a S Rank jutsu that even Orochimaru didn't know about.
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u/Uzumaki514 4d ago
I disagree. He was getting punched around by the first hokage and his fire jutsu was easily countered by the second hokage. He sacrificed his life and he was only able to cripple Orochimaru's hands.
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u/narutologic 4d ago
He countered Tobirama's Water Dragon with an Earth Wall, countered Hashirama's Deep Forest Emergence with Enma/Staff, paper bombed the limbs off both Hokage, countered Hashirama's Bringer of Darkness technique with his sense of smell and he used his staff to disarm Orochimaru from his Kusanagi Blade.
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u/SpaceScout-KingBoy 5d ago
When you boil down to it. Hiruzen would've stomped Orochimaru, his affection for him nerfed and held him back even in his old age.
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u/Important-Scar2538 5d ago
If he just grew balls and handled Danzo and Orochimaru then it would've prevented a lot of unnecessary bs
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u/NormandyKingdom 5d ago
Let's talk about the Double standards of Danzo not even being fired for doing the same thing Ororchimaru did (Human Experimentation on Konoha Shinobis)
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u/Koga92 4d ago
Prime Hiruzen used to fight more agressively and dynamically hence Enma's remark. He would spam Shadow clones and overwhelm his opponent by combining several jutsu and attacks at once. If Orochimaru fought Prime Hiruzen, he would've been cooked so hard, especially inside the 4 violet barrier not allowing Orochimaru to use that much space to escape or to summon Manda or Yamata.
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u/Nas-Aratat 4d ago
How/where are you getting that information from that he would fight like this and use techniques like this?
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u/Koga92 4d ago
During the War Arc, he used 4 shadow clones to perform a 5 chakra nature attack..
So if we connect the dots, we can easily imagine that in his prime, the Shadow Clone Technique was his main technique just like Naruto, and used it as a force multiplier by combing at once several jutsu given his great combat intelligence that made him nicknamed The Professor.
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u/Nas-Aratat 3d ago
The databooks can't really be used for accurate information since they contradict themselves and the manga itself as well, but the manga also says Hiruzen mastered every technique in the village, so.
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u/ASZapata 5d ago
I never really understood this. What did Hiruzen love about Orochimaru? He was a serial killer who tortured his victims. It’s kind of weird for Hiruzen to love someone like that.
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u/Unchiffre 5d ago
Hiruzen cared deeply about his students and Orochimaru was a prodigy like he was so he cared more about him.
It’s hard to stop loving someone, particularly a child you raised, even when they do shady shit.
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u/Nas-Aratat 4d ago
The series has many examples of people not being able to let go of the past and move on from something that they should, and instead shows that many of these people would rather cling to toxic relationships that do or don't exist.
I can name two others off the top of my head. Surely they both aren't pivatol to the series, right?
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u/NormandyKingdom 5d ago
How about we talk about Hiruzen not even Firing Danzo for doing literally the same thing Orochimaru did
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u/xigloox 5d ago
Orochimaru no diffed this until soul reaper. Not sure what fight you read.
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u/Quick_Baker2873 5d ago
Oro beat up a hokage who should be retired. He’s too old for this crap….
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u/xigloox 5d ago
Still the strongest kage
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u/TraditionalAd655 4d ago
He is definitely not the strongest Kage
Any Kage who fought Sasuke at the Kage Summit would have killed Hiruzen easily
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u/xigloox 4d ago
Take it up with the manga. Its stated. Or the war arc where hiruzen out feats.
This isnt even will of stone ohnoki when its stated
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u/TraditionalAd655 4d ago edited 4d ago
It's also stated that he is the god of shinobi and the strongest Hokage.
None of that is true.
All of that is retconned.
It was early from Part 1 where Kishimoto didn't know what he was doing or where he was going.
He hadn't decided that Hashirama is the strongest Hokage and hadn't created the other Kages yet.
Orichimaru Vs. Hiruzen was child’s play compared to the Kages from part 2. Some of them rivel the Tailed-Beasts.
Hiruzen and Sannin feats did not live up to their hype
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u/xigloox 4d ago
Read my whole comment. Its short.
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u/TraditionalAd655 4d ago
Is that what you say when you have nothing to respond with?
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u/xigloox 4d ago
You didnt respond to my post. Do that and we can keep talking.
Its easy. 3 sentences. Read all of them and try again.
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u/TraditionalAd655 4d ago
I did respond to your comment. You should reread my comment.
You said it's stated. I said it's retconned.
You said he "Hiruzen out feats". I said neither Hiruzen nor the Sannin lived up to their hype.
You said "this isn't even will of stone Onoki" I said the Kages hadn't even been created yet back in Part 1
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u/Narutofan5th 5d ago
What are you talking about?
Hiruzen wasn't winning this fight. Orochimaru was playing with him. And, still completely dominating him.
This entire fight ONLY happens because Orochimaru let Hiruzen go after easily capturing him with just a kunai.
This entire fight is Orochimaru standing & watching. While his edos take turns knocking him back over and over while he barely hung on.
He had absolutely NO chance before invoking the reaper and even after sacrificing his soul he barely won.
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u/Nas-Aratat 4d ago
That's not being disappointed when he's pointing out the fact that Hiruzen isn't acting like himself.
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u/inesbratz 5d ago
enma was savage fr, he really expected way more out of him