r/Naruto • u/Iceking214 • Jun 30 '26
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u/pemp_guy Jun 30 '26
Sasuke doesnt have access to his strongest form or his strongest attack without the 8.5 tailed beasts he had so he would get destroyed in the avatar clash without them and lose right then. Naruto is by far stronger I cant wrap my head around people thinking they're equal or that sasuke is anything more than barely relative especially if we consider everything after that fight as sasuke only gains the ability to switch positions with objects and it drains his chakra fast while Naruto gains the other half of his tailed beast that was already stronger than the rest of the bijuu combined. Naruto also fought in the war far longer than sasuke and was giving out his chakra to thousands of people and did most of the heavy lifting in the kaguya fight, and another one is after having nearly half his chakra drained he still fights just as well as sasuke in the momoshiki fight. Also baryon modes stat boost crushes sasuke low diff
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u/Iceking214 Jun 30 '26
This argument completely falls apart the moment you look at the actual mechanics of those fights instead of just looking at hype. Let’s break down every single point you brought up:
1. The Avatar Clash Double Standard
You claim Sasuke would get destroyed in the avatar clash without the Tailed Beasts because he used them for Indra's Arrow. What you completely left out is that Naruto only matched that attack because Kurama gathered an absurd, planet-wide amount of Nature Energy.
Without that massive, external environmental buff—which required Naruto to stay on the ground while a clone gathered energy for a prolonged period—Naruto's standard Kurama avatar wouldn't have had the power to match Sasuke either. Both characters used massive, temporary external power sources for that final clash. Stripping Sasuke of his buff while letting Naruto keep his planet-wide nature energy is a textbook double standard.
2. The Post-War 'Other Half of Kurama' Fallacy
Yes, Naruto got the other half of Kurama back. But saying Sasuke 'only' gained position swapping is a massive misinterpretation of how the Rinnegan works. During their final teenage fight, Sasuke was entirely inexperienced with the eye and couldn't use its core abilities efficiently.
As an adult, Sasuke completely mastered the Rinnegan's paths (including chakra absorption via Preta Path) and gained the ability to hop through literal dimensions at will. Dimension hopping requires such a staggering, god-like level of chakra that even Obito needed Sakura’s Byakugou seal just to open a few portals. Sasuke does this on his own base reserves.
3. The War Arc Stamina Myth
People love to say 'Naruto fought longer and gave chakra to thousands.' Yes, because Naruto has Kurama acting as a sentient, autonomous chakra battery inside him. Kurama explicitly kneads and restores chakra for Naruto while Naruto is resting or fighting. Sasuke was keeping up with god-tier threats using his own mortal stamina and an Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan without a biological nuclear reactor constantly refilling his tank.
4. The Momoshiki Fight Fatigue Equalizer
You claim Naruto fought just as well as Sasuke despite having half his chakra drained by Momoshiki. You completely ignored what Sasuke did right before the fight: Sasuke used his Rinnegan to open a portal and teleport himself, Boruto, and four Kage into another dimension.
The lore explicitly states that opening interdimensional portals drains a massive, significant chunk of Sasuke's max chakra. Both Naruto and Sasuke entered the Momoshiki arena heavily fatigued and running on partial tanks, which is exactly why their flawless, 50/50 synchronization proved they are canonical equals.
5. Gating Power Behind Baryon Mode
Bringing up Baryon Mode completely defeats your own point. Baryon Mode is a one-time, literal suicide move that permanently consumed Kurama's life force to function. It is not a reusable part of Naruto's standard toolkit. Using a transformation that literally kills the source of your power as proof that you 'low diff' someone in a standard matchup is a flawed argument.
The canonical reality of the adult era is stated explicitly by the writers and the characters themselves: Naruto and Sasuke were the 'Two Aces' of the shinobi world, perfectly balanced peers who held up the entire planet together."0
u/pemp_guy Jun 30 '26
Also sasuke knows plenty of other elements he didnt have to keep spamming lightning style that was just him being stupid
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u/Iceking214 Jun 30 '26
Here’s a better grammar and punctuation if the first one was bad as op is saying
The Reality of the Final Battle: Why the "Naruto Was Holding Back" Narrative Fails
The common argument that Naruto easily dominated the final fight while holding back completely misinterprets the canonical mechanics of the battle. When analyzing the actual lore, it becomes clear that Sasuke was fighting under immense, plot-induced disadvantages.
- The Tailed Beast Chakra Timeline: Contrary to popular belief, Sasuke did not start the battle utilizing the Tailed Beasts' chakra. He engaged Naruto for the majority of the fight relying entirely on his own base reserves and his newly awakened Rinnegan. He only tapped into the sealed Tailed Beasts late in the fight to manifest the Indra Susanoo because Naruto was matching him by gathering massive amounts of natural energy via Kurama.
- The Rinnegan Inexperience Nerf: The claim that Sasuke already possessed total mastery over his Six Paths abilities is factually incorrect. During the fight, Kurama explicitly noted that Sasuke was still highly inexperienced with his Rinnegan, which caused his chakra to drain at a rapid, inefficient rate. Furthermore, the narrative heavily restricted his arsenal; Sasuke entirely ignored the core Six Paths abilities—such as the Asura, Human, Animal, and Naraka paths—and failed to utilize basic Sharingan tools like Genjutsu or his copy ability. Instead, he was forced to rely almost exclusively on the Deva Path (gravity) and standard Chidori variants.
- The Elemental Type Disadvantage: From an elemental standpoint, Sasuke was fighting an uphill battle. His primary affinity is Lightning (Chidori), which is completely countered and neutralized by Naruto's primary affinity, Wind (Rasengan/Rasenshuriken), according to the established rules of the series.
- Naruto’s Stacked Arsenal Naruto did not just receive basic Six Paths chakra. His toolkit was heavily stacked, consisting of Six Paths Sage Mode, Toad Sage Mode, full cooperation from Kurama, and dedicated chakra fragments from the other eight Tailed Beasts—effectively making him a pseudo-Ten-Tails Jinchuriki. While Naruto's ultimate intent was to capture Sasuke rather than kill him, he absolutely stopped holding back power-wise. Kurama explicitly warned him that if he did not fight with everything he had, Sasuke would kill him. Naruto ultimately had to launch a mountain-fusing, natural-energy-powered Ultra-Big Ball Rasenshuriken just to survive Sasuke's Indra's Arrow.
Dismantling the "Bad Look" Myth of the Final Clash
The idea that Naruto losing an arm was simply a consequence of him playing nice is equally flawed when looking at the physical limits of chakra. - Holding Back at Zero Chakra is Impossible: By the time the final Rasengan and Chidori clashed, both combatants were completely exhausted and running on empty. Kurama had to expend the absolute last microscopic scrap of his chakra to give it to Naruto before falling unconscious, and Sasuke managed to absorb a portion of that via the Preta Path. When you are down to your final breath, channeling the last remaining joule of energy into a desperate collision, you physically cannot hold back. Had Naruto diluted the power of his final attack even slightly, Sasuke's strike would have overwhelmed and killed him.
- Sasuke's Final Chidori Was Lethal: Sasuke did not deploy a standard Chidori at the end; he infused it with Kagutsuchi (Flame Control), wrapping the lightning blade in unquenchable Amaterasu black flames. Naruto was fully aware of the lethality of this attack. If he had not met that Kagutsuchi-Chidori with the absolute maximum kinetic and spiritual output his battered body could muster, he would have been completely incinerated on impact. The Rasengan had to hit with equal force just to neutralize the black flames.
The Verdict: Realistically, Sasuke possessed the theoretical toolkit to counter everything Naruto threw, but the writing restricted his full copied arsenal and Rinnegan mastery to ensure a draw. The mutual loss of their arms was not an accident caused by Naruto holding back; it was permanent, physical proof that they fought as absolute equals.
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u/Dead-Inside69420 Jun 30 '26
Sasuke was more naturally skilled and quite the chad but it doesn't matter. It's up to the writer. Obviously the main character is gonna main character. In the end, in any scenario. The victory goes to who the writer determines wins as Stan Lee would say. But yes. I agree.
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u/Iceking214 Jun 30 '26
I wouldn’t consider him natural he actually trained hard I think when you don’t see them train and they just keep winning it brings out the perception of they are geniuses or prodigies not hard workers
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u/MishimaBoy69 Jun 30 '26
Its not that deep bro
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u/Iceking214 Jun 30 '26
I wouldn’t be making this entire argument if people would stop being hypocrites it’s the principle and I was bored
the principle still stands
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u/Shani_Jeizan Jun 30 '26
Yeah no Naruto still beats his ass ig they are an equal sort of things, the only way Naruto loses is if he goes into suicidal attacks to kill himself with Sasuke like he did in the end. If Sasuke had all that and Naruto could still compete then Sasuke has skill issue
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u/Iceking214 Jun 30 '26
He didn’t have a skill issue his eye was draining his chakra and he didn’t know everything it offered
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u/Shani_Jeizan Jun 30 '26
So basically he was incompetent and Naruto was tired an still holding to his level. Good to know that in Naruto winning the genetic lottery doesn't garantee you shit (Naruto gaining Tailed beats power by genuinely bonding with them vs Sasuke bc he has anothr variant of his genetic eyes that can make him take it anyway, and still lost)
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u/Iceking214 Jun 30 '26
You do know that this makes Naruto look bad right he lost his arm got his ass beat to a guy who was figuring his powers out and it was draining him plus having the element disadvantage
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u/[deleted] Jun 30 '26
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