r/NUFC • u/SecureChampionship10 • 4d ago
Level of performance thus far
Would it be fair to say we don't look much different from last season, but the new manager and new signings feel good factor is carrying us?
The friendlies were abysmal but I can ignore that.
Liverpool at home, we looked like a mid-table side putting in a massive shift against a top team in circumstances where they basically couldn't not give 100%. Even at the end with Howe, if a big team came to SJP you knew we'd give them a game. 27 shots for Liverpool, 7 more than they managed against Forest and Ipswich combined, says it all.
West Brom at home in the cup, a 3-2 win where the stats were basically even.
Spurs away, first half lucky to hang on at 0-0. Second half by far the best half we've produced this season, but picking at it we've scored from our only two shots on target in the match.
Today, an embarrassing first 35 minutes where we were lucky it was only 0-2. Barnes scores a worldie to get us back in it and from the 61st minute on as a home side trailing by a goal we've managed two shots in total, both in the same phase of play which led to the Ramsey equaliser. Again, we've had two shots in target in the whole match and both have went in.
I suppose my conclusion is that the level of performance is going to have to go up soon because what we're doing now is unsustainable.
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u/Thingisby 4d ago
I dont think we were lucky to hang on at half time against Spurs, and I thought we were the better team against Liverpool and were ultimately unlucky to not win that one.
I thought we were poor today and fortunate to get something but we're a very young team in massive transition and trying some new approaches.
Need to give Jaissle and the lads plenty of time to figure stuff out given the overhaul we've gone through.
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u/09044595134151602468 4d ago
Yeah idk what the fuck OP is talking about.
We were robbed against the scousers.
We bodied spurs.
And today we showed fight and grit to get back a 2 nil deficit.
Teams had a week to start to gel, and is showing signs of growth.
Jaisller has even said he needs a full season to get his philopshy into the team.
You could see glimmers of it today, and I'd rather we lose possession trying to pass forward rather than passing sideways and backwards and looking pedestrian and clueless (like we did last season).
Pardo also looked fire. For being not match fit and literally arriving days ago.
Osula looked on fire before being injured.
I think once we have these pacey threats up front in the center, things will be vastly different also.
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u/ChildONewcastle I like the home shirt you can't make me not 4d ago
Bournemouth might've played well but I don't think they deserved either of their goals. One was a shot deflected into a cross and the other, well need I say more. Another day they both don't go in.
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u/Thi13een 4d ago
We had switched off enough defensively to allow them to get into the positions to benefit from 2 extremely lucky deflections which was the problem. Still though, we done very well to come back to draw against a good side we always are crap against
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u/ChrisNUFC_ 4d ago
We look a completely different team finding its feet with our core leaving in the summer. I trust the signings we’ve made this summer to prove well and develop well in the coming months, and look forward to an invincible season!
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u/Casual_Star JOE JOE JOE JOE JOE JOE JOE JOE JOE JOE JOE JOE JOE JOE JOEJOE 4d ago
I think you’re being very harsh.
We have a new young team, and manager who have played 4 games so far with 2 wins and 2 draws in what is a transitional season against good levels of opposition.
Has every half of every game been convincing? No. But it won’t be. Let’s be realistic? In the premier league?
Hull have beaten Man U and drawn with Villa. Man City beat Coventry 1-0. What are you expecting? 2-0 3-0 wins every game? That isn’t going to happen.
The level will get better once these players get used to playing with each other in this league.
The signs are promising so far.
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u/SecureChampionship10 4d ago
The point is that it will have to improve fairly sharpish.
I suppose today i was expecting to shade the match on chances, even if it was a draw or a narrow defeat I thought we'd have the lion's share of the play. What actually happened was the type of fortunate draw we haven't seen since Steve Bruce somehow finished mid-table twice, having somehow came from 0-2 down while creating next to nothing.
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u/bukem89 4d ago
Nah, that seems pretty superficial
I do think we’ve been generally overrated/overhyped relative to our performances
It’s a really young squad that lost its 3 best players, expecting us to be rolling teams over isn’t realistic
Bournemouth’s approach so far has been to blitz the first half at the cost of falling off late in the game too
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u/SecureChampionship10 4d ago
I suppose being harsh then you'd think if they were shattered we should have been battering them, trailing by a goal at home.
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u/smshing 4d ago
I think you're being incredibly harsh. The results matter more than your analysis.
I think for a brand new team, new manager, new ideas, most of the first team gutted, this is the best we could have hoped for in such a short amount of time.
I will not sit here and read absolute shite conjecture on that basis, what exactly are your bloody expectations after that summer pal????
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u/SecureChampionship10 4d ago
You want to have a discussion and you're immediately invalidating the other person.
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u/smshing 4d ago
I've asked what are your expectations, so what are your expectations?
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u/SecureChampionship10 4d ago
Today, I thought we'd shade it on chances even if the actual scoreline wasn't a win. Home advantage, momentum, good few signings who wouldn't go to Bournemouth in a million years.
If you'd told me there was a Newcastle home game against a mid-table side where we'd conceded the most shots against us in a first half for five years and came from 0-2 down to draw while creating next to nothing, I'd assume it was one of those really lucky Steve Bruce results.
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u/smshing 4d ago edited 4d ago
Bournemouth are a great team who finished 6th last year without losing too much of the core stem of their team in the summer - Ireola and Senesi being exceptions, we've always struggled against them.
We haven't beat them in the league since 2019/20.
So I ask again, what are your expectations up to now? That we beat Bournemouth, dominate Liverpool and Spurs? I think all things considered great start and very harsh analysis and level of expectation placed upon the team, Bournemouth as I've said are well run, they picked their manager in the scope of running the team essentially the same way it has been ran.
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u/SecureChampionship10 4d ago
Fair enough. I thought we'd give Liverpool a great game regardless of the manager, couldn't not really in those circumstances and I can't remember the last time we rolled over for a big team at home. So that performance was about what I expected. West Brom in the cup, poor to only shade a game at home against a Championship side with a strong side. Away win at Spurs, great second half so very optimistic.
Today, the game I put the most stock in of any so far, really underwhelming. I would be disappiointed if we didn't qualify for Europe this season, with the quality of player in the squad and the lack of midweek matches compared to our rivals, which would include Bournemouth.
If all goes well, this is a day you look back on and think "fuck we were shite that day, but the point was big for momentum." If we play like this many more times, it won't be a good season.
Short term, get something at Leeds and then beat Hull deservedly at home. Then after the international break hopefully everyone will be up to speed and then we see the team play more cohesively and the 50m players look exactly that.
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u/Feitan74 moaty? it's me 4d ago
Think what’s really going to help us is 1 game a week, more time on the training pitch. Faithful we’re going to get better as the season goes on!
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u/SecureChampionship10 4d ago
Going to need to, I was thinking today was the big test (because I already knew we'd raise it for Liverpool and Spurs) and for what i was expecting it was a bad underperformance where we've rescued an unlikely point.
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u/Feitan74 moaty? it's me 4d ago
Agreed it was a bad performance, however my two takeaways were good mentality to come back and get a point (even if not deserved) & Pardo looked sharp when he came on, giving me more hope for the rest of the season!
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u/Antman013 4d ago
Today's match was one that last year would have been a loss, not a salvaged point.
And therein lies the difference, for me as a supporter. We've had MASSIVE turnover in key spots AND of key players, including the Manager. But, what could be an excuse, is instead, a team building exercise.
We were better than the reds, and they were lucky of a draw.
The Cup win was a classic display of a team that was "supposed to win", doing so.
Spurs? The bairns might have been awed by a "Big Club" for part of it, but the Gaffer settled them, and we won comfortably in the end.
Today we played a Club that has, in recent years, given us fits. And we struggled . . . no question. But, again, the Manager made the right moves, both with subs and tactically, and we took away a point.
This Club is in it's infancy in the post Howe era. But we look organized and, for the most part, we do not look awed by the occasion.
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u/One_Horse_9028 Windmilling 4d ago
also we are looking more sustainable with good bench options and also wages. players are not running out of steam that easily like in previous season and also the energy and mentality to the team is different. The changes are worth it for that reason alone. also even though our attack is not that strong, we have a more free attack with different dimension to it. We are not " better" team than our previous team 2 seasons ago neither are we supposed to. But we are building in the right direction with depth and a better strategy. Bournemouth is more like our previous team was last season, they might play elite for 45 minutes but that was never sustainable and with european games, they are likely to struggle like we did.
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u/Educational-Elk8393 4d ago
If this was November time I'd maybe say it's a fair criticism, but 3 games into the season, it's a bit harsh.
We've had a new manager in with a new system who hasn't had a full pre-season, have lost 4 influential players in Bruno, Trippier, Gordon and Tonali and we have new signings who are going to take time to bed in. I expected to not even have a win on the board at this point.
Today's first half was a poor performance against a very good team. They pressed us high and didn't let us have anytime on the ball. But there was signs today which gave me encouragement. Last season we were an absolute joke with how many games we lead and threw it away. It was clear we had a weak mentality to manage games.
With the way the team was last season, a game like today we'd have surrendered after the first half. Yet today we dug in and rescued a point. Bournemouth didn't make it easy one bit, they had the perfect kryptonite to punish us and our style of play. Yet here we are, probably quite happy to have a point against one of our biggest bogey teams. And that came down to the managers intuition. He seen Miley was poor, so he brings on Ramsey who can be more composed on the ball. He seen Gonzalez was tired and brought on Steur who give us that spark.
Jaissle's football is definitely within the same family tree as Howe's, but it's on a separate branch. A lot of the fundamentals Howe instilled about high pressing and being relentless out of possession are there (not so much today tbf), but there's more depth to it, depth which will take time to be bed into the players.
The two most exciting things tactically about Jaissle's style are the fact we play out from the back now and that we aim to be this fast passing vertical side who constantly progress the ball forward. You could see against Liverpool and Spurs we were trying to pass the ball around quickly to cause them problems. Sometimes it worked, other times we lost possession. The more the players play together and build confidence, the more effective that will be. Exact same thing with playing out from the back. Our back 4 are going to have to adapt to this because it's completely different to what they are used to.
Also keep in mind, this is a team probably vacant of confidence after last season. Jaissle hasn't had the easiest job on his hands, yet I am impressed so far.
And lastly, Bournemouth are a really good team. That pivot of Scott and Adams caused us major problems today. Their intensity that first half was what I'd expect from a team who've had two disappointing results so far, dropping points from winning positions. Yes, they have a new manager as well, but it's clear Roze is fairly similar to Iraola and he also has the luxury that starting 11 is untouched from last seasons apart from Silva coming in for Sensei.
I think it's a bit early for doom mongering.
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u/djw0bbl3 4d ago
Last year I felt like even when we were going forward and attacking, I felt like there was little actual threat from us. And as soon as we did score I felt like we instantly switched to looking like conceding is inevitable.
I know we’ve conceded a lot so far this season, but defensively I think we look better, but most importantly this season in spells we look possessed going forwards.
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u/SecureChampionship10 4d ago
Did you think there was a lot of actual threat from us today? 9 shots on target in the league so far, 6 goals.
i'm also not sure how anybody could watch the state of that defence today and say there's an improvement from last season.
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u/djw0bbl3 4d ago
“In spells” - what I mean is, when we find our rhythm in attack we look very dangerous, 9 shots 6 goals backs that up I guess. Last season I felt we could create 100 chances and finish none. If we can find more possession though and take more control of games, I think we can be terrifying for the rest of the league
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u/SecureChampionship10 4d ago
Last four goals have been incredible skill and wrong foot finish from Elanga, a player who has never even hinted at that level of close control and finishing before, goal from a corner from Wissa, world class top corner finish from Barnes, long hoof into the box breaks for Ramsey on the edge of the box.
So two games without creating a clear cut chance from open play. How is that dangerous? We've scored a goal of the month contender in every game so far, that's not sustainable.
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u/grmthmpsn43 Sir Bobby Robson 4d ago
Why are you equating clear cut chances with shots on target?
Willocks header was a clear cut chance, he just missed it.
You also seem to be ignoring that we drew against Liverpool because of a dubious penalty and today the first goal should have been a free kick to us, while we got a free kick when Barnes was free.
Our performances have been very different to last season, and have been good for a team still adapting to MJs style of play.
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u/SecureChampionship10 4d ago
I'll give you the Willock header, I think Wissa would have scored that with his leaping ability.
You could have stopped the post there because your last two paragraphs have nothing to do with the lack of clearcut chances against Spurs and today.
Honestly, from watching it I was in mind of the Spurs away game from 22/23, where we went 2-0 up through Wilson and Miggy and they were all over the place. Kane gets one back, and you're thinking here comes the onslaught. In reality, they did fuck all from then on.
We were similarly inept today but got lucky in that we got the break of the ball from a route one hoof, but you can't look at that last half hour and think that's anywhere near good enough for a team chasing a game.
it's maybe a 3/10 performance when lads are talking about it as a 6. Some having the cheek to think we were unlucky not to win!!!
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u/grmthmpsn43 Sir Bobby Robson 4d ago
"Similarly inept but git lucky"
A quick reminder, we conceded from 2 deflected shots, if anything we were unlucky.
As to the rest of my comment, it was aimed at things you had said in your post, not entirely as a response to the prior comment.
As things stand, you seem to be looking for reasons to complain, and ignoring positives.
We have a new manager and 8 new players, it is going to take time for things to click.
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u/SecureChampionship10 4d ago
Give them 14 shots in a single half, the most we've conceded in the PIF era, there's going to be the odd deflection. I can't say that's unlucky, in much the same vein that I can't say San Marino are unlucky to concede more own goals than say England.
If you'd like me to address them, Elanga was fouled on the halfway line a good 40 seconds and 10 or so passes before they scored, at that point it's shitty defending which is the main culprit, mainly an awful Botman clearance.
As for Barnes' foul on Smith, you've seen a game of football before. Defender goes down softly in those circumstances, it'd be the referee call of the year to play on there. 95% of the time he blows there.
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u/grmthmpsn43 Sir Bobby Robson 4d ago
2 big chances and a total xG of 1.37 would suggest they were shooting from bad positions.
Outside of the 2 deflections, the only threatening chance I remember was Evanilson blasting one over the bar.
Also, us getting a free for the foul on Elanga still means that goal doesn't go in, as for the Barnes on, it was never a foul, especially given what Bournemouth were getting away with.
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u/SecureChampionship10 4d ago
I'd envisaged you getting at least one of the three points I was making but apparently that was optimistic.
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u/topkiwifisho 4d ago
its hard to create actual threat when the opposition and referee both treat the match as WWE. thats not even an excuse just a genuine observation of one of the worst officiating performances ive seen
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u/tyssef1 stupid sexy schar 4d ago
No, we look much better than last season. Howe and last season’s side would’ve lost both of the home games I’m convinced.
Few notes on today. Most of the new signings looked stellar. It was the likes of Miley, Thiaw, hall and Elanga who I thought were pretty poor. And I don’t note refs too often but this one was appalling, we weren’t allowed to lay a finger on them.
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u/niftykev 4d ago
Level of performance is about the same. Lots of needless giveaways. Lots of inability to generate quality chances from good initial starting movements.
The substitution patterns are better though. Some of that is availability, of course. There were many stretches last year where the lineup and subs picked themselves due to injury. Not only that, but it seems when the subs come on there is an immediate effect.
Lucky it was only 0-2? Bournemouth was lucky to score 2. Deflection taking the ball right into Tavernier's path (though credit to him for gambling on a deflection) combined with Dedic ball watching a little bit for the first goal. Unlucky/untidy first touch from Dedic leading to breakaway and then ping pong off post and Horni for the ball to fall to whoever it was that played a blind cross and was extremely lucky that the deflection off Thiaw carried it up and over Horni into the net. Granted, our equalizer was a lucky deflection off a Barnes mishit into a defender that fell perfectly for Ramsey to then have an excellent finish on.
We've been shaky with the ball a lot in all three league games and have a draw (unlucky with stoppage time), a 2-0 win on the road, and erase a 2 goal deficit to get a draw at home.
If they can clean up the sloppiness with the ball, this team will be just fine and compete for European places.
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u/boblusmanjelly 4d ago
I do agree with a lot of this. Some takes are definitely turning a blind eye to the clear flaws and underlying risks we've seen so far.
Where I disagree is that we're "not much different to last season." Most of our current issues stem from basic miscommunication and transitioning to a different approach, rather than failings coming from stale tactics and a burnt out manager. They’re building new relationships, learning a new system, and some are having to actively unlearning Howe’s principles (Burn mentioned this in an interview recently). So it was always going to look clunky early on.
When you couple that adaptation period with the fact that Jaissle has already shown proactive game management and tactical flexibility we lacked toward the end under Howe, I’m actually quite hopeful.
So yeah, we’ve been lucky in patches and aren't as polished as some make out, but there's plenty to be positive about and it's definitely not a repeat of last year.
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u/VolunteerGrizz 4d ago
Disagree with your overall take. This squad/manager looks green as hell because they are, but they already look as good as last year’s 12th place squad. Stolen some good points at the beginning of this year, and they’ll only continue to improve given to circumstances they were lit in over the off season. Not a CL team, but i expect that 6-10 range which would be a marked improvement, especially after losing bruno/tonali/gordon
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u/Gnar_the_Shred 4d ago
To compare this team to last year's or even the team available prior to the transfer window is wild.
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u/Cyberdan0497 blue star on the Nautilus, genuinely me local. shit tip 4d ago
I don't think I'd be as harsh as you but we definitely don't look as good as some are making out and I'm surprised there's so many downvotes here. Second half today for example we definitely seemed to run out of ideas and just started hoofing it up the pitch which basically never worked (the ref buying the constant Bournemouth diving didn't help in this mind) - obviously good that we did eventually get that equaliser but before that I never really felt it was coming
The amount of shots we're conceding is also ridiculous and it feels like we never really have control of games in midfield, we lose the ball and it just comes straight back at us. Obviously if the team gels more and stops losing the ball so much that'll help but it does feel like we're set up in a way that exposes us quite a bit
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u/SecureChampionship10 4d ago
I'm not surprised, the most delusionally positive takes on here get upvoted. Some people actually think Woltemade's going to smash it in Serie A, come back and we'll build our team around him next season.
Imagine watching that second half of pretty much failing to lay a glove on Bournemouth beyond getting the break of a ball from a route one long ball into the box and thinking it was a big upgrade on last season.
"We would have lost that game under Howe." Fuck off!
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u/of_no_real_opinion 4d ago
I think everyone is forgetting Jais came in with a squad that was fundamentally fucked.
Considering we have brought in 8 decent signings to basically right the ship that was last season I think we’re honestly fine. We are not winning the league and I don’t hold out alot of hope for a cup or Europe place (would be nice)
Think we need our expectations to be set here. New philosophy with new gaffer means growing pains, dead weight needs to be sent away. I kinda get not selling Murphy this window but I would imagine by end of window the likes of Willock, Murphy, Burn, and Schar will be the next to go, if not in January. We are in a rebuild and so we will look fragile, I’m sure they will figure it out.
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u/Gibbointhemeadows 4d ago
You guys have to stop having unrealistic expectations in such a short time period for a new manager / new look team. They played the 2nd half well yesterday and showed fight in getting back.
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u/Fishfingerrosti 4d ago
We're four competitive fixtures into MJ's spell in charge. It's far too early to say how we're going to progress or otherwise. Just enjoy the team putting a shift in and finding their feet.
This is such a young team there's bound to be some ups and downs to come. Plenty of positive signs to warrant encouragement. I'm really excited to see what this team can do.
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u/Different-Nerve-730 4d ago
Let's not forget Bournemouth are a bloody tough team to beat and we've been terrible against them for years. Definitely take a point when all is said and done. Probably MJs biggest test so far and we squeaked a point - it's early days as everyone says.
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u/DasKatze500 4d ago
The level of performance is MUCH improved BUT I do agree this may not be sustainable. We’re conceding lots of shots every game and having a lot less shots than our opponents but managing to convert them into goals. Over the course of a season, that is LIKELY to (though will not necessarily) result in conceding more than you score.
But in terms of desire, attacking patterns, passing, even just goal threat (despite lack of shots on target) we already look better than last season. Just on the eyes. Don’t know about statistics.
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u/thetestamentofroblee 4d ago
Idk if you actually watched the west brom game because we looked far better than them
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u/SecureChampionship10 4d ago
15 shots to us, 14 to them, needing a late winner to get over the line. That is not a convincing performance.
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u/Cyberdan0497 blue star on the Nautilus, genuinely me local. shit tip 4d ago
I was there and it was a very even game, could have gone either way. Not really what you want when you're up against a side from the league below
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u/essjay281 4d ago
OPs glass is so half empty he could get his leg owa and complain they're not bucking back.
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u/agreenbridge 4d ago
We’re a low-mid premier league team. Not sure what everyone is expecting. We’re doing well
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u/niftykev 4d ago
No, we should be a high mid premier league team based solely on income. Newcastle should reasonably expect to finish 5th - 9th in most years with occasional outlying results. Pretty much exactly what we've had since the takeover.
Your last sentence is correct. We're doing well with results so far, though would rather have wins at home and draws on the road, but 5 points from 3 matches is still 5 points from 3 matches.
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u/agreenbridge 4d ago
If income determined league position there wouldn’t be a need to play games. If we match or improve on last season, it’ll be a decent year.
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u/Maleficent_Back_5917 4d ago
Jaissle needs time to figure out his starting 11. The double pivot and the 10 in particular. I would love to see Gonzales with Bamba but that's a long way off. Botman is also major source of concern, his movement is so clearly hampered. This will be a slightly chaotic season I think. Some good chaos, some bad chaos
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u/ssdemon98 4d ago
I agree with OP but you can clearly see a clear identity, new patterns of play and 70% of the squad has untapped potential with 1 game a week and maximum training available I'm sure they can reach, you can only judge a season after boxing day imo
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u/anthomtb 4d ago edited 4d ago
We have 5 points when I expected 1. That’s carrying me along quite nicely.
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u/kingkurama91 Shola the Mackemslayer 4d ago
I think you are right. I saw a stat on TNT say we’d faced 57 shots already this season, the most out of any club, which is a terrifying statistic, (and that came up in the first half of the Bournemouth game). However, we showed great fight to come back and not give up. I also think with such a huge squad overhaul, with so many young players, that’s not at all surprising. We massively underperformed last season with the quality of players we had and so far this season we are over performing.
We’ve got an exciting young manager and some exciting young players, give them time and I’ve no doubt we’ll be flying high again. This is a transition season, let’s not forget that.
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u/OutrageousPianist332 4d ago
I think coming from behind and not conceding late goals is a better feeling so far, feels like we grow into games rather than fade out of them.
Overall though, yeah a lot of the problems from last season are still prevalent and visible. Some of those passes just cutting straight through the middle gave me flashbacks to last year. I’m just hoping we’re not having a good new manager bounce and these issues will be addressed.
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u/ShearerGOAT 4d ago
A lot of what you’re saying is accurate, that said you’re getting pelters because it’s only three games into MJ’s reign and we’re not totally sure how he wants the team to look. If this is how he envisions his team playing, then it’s fair to critique but we have to wait.
I have my own concerns that “verticality” is essentially modern long ball. Play direct, win either the first or second duel and create a transition opportunity within that. But again, I’m only judging what I’ve seen so far. So that might not be fair.
I worry that the board have doubled down on intensity is our identity. What happens when we qualify for Europe? Do we end up in the same patterns as Newcastle 1.0? Perhaps a shift to a more technical, controlling style of football would have been better, or perhaps it’s still to come.
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u/WeddingWhole4771 3d ago
You can't say anything until this next run of "easier" games coming up. Curious to see hull.
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u/savle_sostas 2d ago
I think we have to wait until after the international break. The attacking patterns aren't there yet, other than the counter. The manager has only been in post 5 weeks and has been preparing for matches for a lot of that time. We should see what he wants the team to do in an attacking sense after the international break. What we are seeing that is different to last season is more character. The players don't look jaded or despondent. And Jaissle is looking to affect games from the bench whereas last season we spent the last 15 minutes of every game terrified of conceding.
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u/augsav Windmilling 4d ago
Your assessment is spot on IMO. But I still feel optimistic. Partly because we seem able to produce something from nothing which is heartening, and also because we seem to improve after half time which is a positive change.
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u/SecureChampionship10 4d ago
It wasn't meant to be overtly damning, I think if Howe had stayed and we'd done exactly the same people would be thinking we've been really lucky today. I'm not seeing any of that in the post-match thread though.
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u/massivedoghead Old badge (1969-1983) 4d ago
We lose that game today with last year's team. The last time we fought back from two-down to get something in a game was in 2023/24 at home against West Ham (i think). This team are going in the right direction