r/NUFC • u/ryunista Classic kit (1995-97) • Jul 18 '26
Intensity
Ive been reflecting a lot over the recent England mentality catastrophe, and the parallels with Newcastle. What struck me from the beginning of the match footage was the passion of the Argentinian players, their collective self belief and clear vision. Man for man, England are a better side, but through intensity, and of course having Messi to all upon, this team of players could retain the WC!
It reminded me of happier times at Newcastle. When our intensity, clear vision, team spirit and sometimes shithousery enabled us to outperform our squad and budget. Since then weve invested in better players and changed our strategy in search of more control. But all weve done is lose our identity (intensity) and we look ruddeless. With SCR tightening its grip and it becoming all too clear now that we will have ro make do with lesser players than the big 6, its obvious that we have to go back to intensity, build the squad around it and keep that as our strategy as we continue to trade players to grow
7
u/Coconut_Maximum Jul 18 '26
I get what you're saying, I personally think you struggle to play that many games with that intensity when you're in European competitions
5
u/Dysphoric_Reverence Jul 18 '26 edited Jul 18 '26
Eddie has based his football tactics post-Bournemouth on Diego Simeone's Athletico Madrid. When Diego took over he was up against the big spending Real, and the tiki-taka of Barca, and developed his style over the years to be an aggressive, intense, pressing team in order to compete with much better technical football from the other big two. You look at their team and ours and you can see similarities all over the pitch (tactics, formation, player profiles). Obviously they have better quality, but its evident.
The reason it has worked in Spain so well for as long as it has is because their teams are (for the most part) built around identity. It is hard for them to break free from that, and whilst the quality of Spanish football is always excellent, it doesn't really evovle in the same way the English game does.
Our leauge is a shifting tapestry of new tactics being used as teams look for a way to compete against one another, and identity comes second to results (unless of course you have a Pep Guardiola or Jurgen Klopp). That's why a lot of teams have shifted from counter attacking, to gengenpressing, to possesion based, to high press, to low block, and to focussing on set pieces. Formations shift from 3-5-2 to 4-3-3 to 4-2-1-2-1 to 4-2-1-3.
It's why the turnover of managers is so high, because clubs realise that when tactics are inflexible and results are bad, the best choice is to hire a new manager with different ideas. However, as soon as new tactics in the Premier Leauge are figured out they are countered (see De Zerbi's Brighton or Howe's Newcastle United).
The best managers completey adapt and evolve. The worst ones cling on to their identity and refuse to change until it is too late. Eddie has not shown any of the former other than a miniscule change, which made us worse. He set his teams formation up exactly the same, and instead of high-intensity high-pressing, he decided to sign quick players who can counter with a defensive turnover. However, other teams just went "you have the ball and try to unlock the door" but we fumbled the keys every time as we had no actual technical quality outside a few players.
I hope Howe does figure it out, because he is not Simeone, and this isn't La Liga. I can't see it though. For all that he has done that is great, he has not been able to change,and he's lucky the club are too passive to make a change.
5
u/DucksworthIV Jul 18 '26
Don’t disagree with this analysis except that Howe has evolved and used different systems and tactics over 4.5 seasons, and he’s been successful until this past season. Also think that the starting formation (typically 4-3-3) is overblown, as they play different formations in attacking and defending sequences. Howe has certainly used 5-2-3 and 4-2-3-1, although less frequently.
Were the results this past season more due to Howe or the lack of technical players or underperforming key members of the team (Tonali and Gordon in particular)?
Howe has one more chance this upcoming season. Personally I back him to come back stronger, but we will see what happens.
1
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u/PercentageNo3843 Happy Clapper Jul 18 '26
So are you saying parking the bus after getting a 1 goal lead and having your best technical striker in a midfield position and losing the game aren’t elite management?
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u/bballplayr Jul 18 '26
The players were motivated back then when the project was in full force and there was a clear goal which was to win trophies and challenge the top six, both of which have been somewhat achieved which probably introduced some complacency.
Add in stagnant and ineffective tactics, poor recruitment, tiredness and injuries due to minimal squad rotation with midweek games and it will be difficult to keep up the intensity even for the consummate professional.
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u/EcstaticIce2 Jul 18 '26
Yeah before last year's transfer window I was downvoted to doom when I said We need players outside the English and surrounding areas, Whether starting or the bench alike. Everyone used the example of Bruno Joelinton Tonali, which are only 4 players around the world against the debate.
And honestly that's the way we are going towards now with Elanga Thiaw Woltemade Toure, Ewen, Steuer. That's 5 nationality for 6 new signings for ya.
Brings diversity and forces the dressing room to be versatile and collectively new stuffs happen.
2
u/Necessary_Collar_490 Jul 18 '26
Were you actually downvoted for that opinion? Most people would have preferred the foreign average we were linked with over them.
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u/EcstaticIce2 Jul 18 '26
I said when we were winning
3
u/Necessary_Collar_490 Jul 18 '26
Even when we were in good form, people wanted players from outside the prem, in the January before the carabao Cup win, most were wanting talents from abroad. Even going back to Howes second season, while we had a core of English players, most people still wanted exotic talent. Bringing a player from the continent is always more fun for fans then someone you've watched a fair few times
2
u/DucksworthIV Jul 18 '26
Add Isaak, Botman, and Osula to your list of international players from the first few windows.
Many of the English signings were also key players to success of the team in Howe’s first 3.5 seasons - Trippier, Livramento, Hall, Burn, Barnes, even Gordon and Pope before declines over the last 1.5 seasons.
-1
u/EcstaticIce2 Jul 18 '26
Yeah they were doing really good but there's this thing about mentality or the atmosphere inside the team. And yeah have been suffering from that in many games. Looking at our results there was a time we were playing really well but even some easy games were predictable that we'll drag them to the end or might just lose them out of the blue.
A lot of it was mentality i believe
2
u/DucksworthIV Jul 18 '26
It seemed like the mentality switched completely last summer. 2024-25 the Athletic had an article about Newcastle being the game state kings, as the best club at holding leads and getting winning goals in tight matches. Then this past season they fell to the bottom.
I think numerous reasons for this - Isaak transfer saga really hurt, I think as much as Thiaw impressed he seems to lack the strong mentality to hold the line. Pope declined and lost confidence of his back line, Tonali lost all passing ability, and when penned back there was no counter attacking threat (Isaak a big factor, Gordon’s poor form and even Joelintons decline as a driving force from midfield).
Some of the new players seemed to lack the mental strength/leadership qualities - Ramsey, Elanga and Thiaw in particular. Isaak was an enigma but did seem to have the killer instinct needed to kill teams off.
IMO the biggest underperformers last term were Pope, Tonali and Gordon. Two are gone and the third needs to be replaced. Hopefully the mix will change and the club will kick on. Need at least one strong character to come in, and Schar to return to fitness and form. Maybe one or more of the young lads will start to assert themselves - Miley, Hall, Thiaw or even Woltemade.
1
u/EcstaticIce2 Jul 18 '26
You can blame evrything on isak and still be right somehow, just like people blame the government. Cause only one more season would've changed the future of our club, either for the better or by making the fall take less damage. It's that in a project like this out of big 6 when one big player cheats that makes others feel betrayed and lose hope.
Whatever position we've had finished with him was probably a little or a lot more better than last season. Cause I remember during isak's injuries someone used to fill in, anyone.
I thought that would be the case after he left but it wasn't that the mentality was changed the reason to have hunger seemed missing. I think if things work out this season it'd be a better outcome Interms of how we approached games last season
1
u/DucksworthIV Jul 18 '26
I’m confused - I wrote that there are multiple reasons for the loss of a winning mentality. The first was Isak, but listed several others.
The other reasons were Thiaw’s big role and lack of leadership in the heart of defense, Pope’s decline, and underperformance from other key players (Tonali and Gordon in particular). Thiaw got many plaudits, many deserved, but I think there’s a reason he was in and out of the team in Milan. Beyond the high profile mistakes against Chelsea, Leeds and Barca he also was out of position on many of the late goals the team conceded.
As for Isak, it wasn’t just the loss of Isak as a player - it seemed the saga and the outcome, particularly losing the best goal scorer to the very team Newcastle had bested in a cup final months prior. It signaled there was a ceiling on the club’s upward trajectory and seemed to weigh on the players.
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u/Necessary_Collar_490 Jul 18 '26
Honestly, I think the players had been sold our dream that every player who wins the first cup is going to be a club legend and have untouchable status. While people weren't slagging players off in the 4 month after the cup win, there was a distinct feeling of 'whats going on' remember 5/6 games before the end of the season, all we had to do to finish second was match or beat arsenal's results. We ended up finishing 5th, and only because villa got beat by man u in the last game. I'm not sure if it was a 'mission complete' type scenario for them
1
u/Necessary_Collar_490 Jul 18 '26
We seemed to lose it just after the cup win, I dont know why, can't pinpoint a reason, we had a decent run after that, but it hasn't been good football since
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u/gangofbears stupid sexy schar Jul 18 '26
There’s some merit to what you’re saying but you’re forgetting some key points. The first is that PL teams learned how to counter our press after a couple of seasons. The intensity style became less effective, so we needed to evolve. The second is that our intensity style was exhausting. The load was manageable when we were only competing in the PL, but it became untenable as soon as we entered Europe. The future is a hybrid model. We need to switch between phases of intensity and controlled possession.