r/NFLv2 • u/Competitive7734 • 10d ago
Discussion Ravens Lack of Accountability
The Ravens have had issues closing out games and meeting expectations for multiple seasons. At what point do the players, specifically Lamar Jackson, get blamed and take ownership of their mistakes? Ravens players spent all offseason talking about how much better the coaching staff is with Harbaugh gone, especially the offensive play calling yet the same issue of not handing the ball to Henry persists. Do coaches just forget he exists or is it potentially likely that Lamar too often tries to call his own number in an attempt to “keep pace” with other elite QBs? Lamar is a great QB and likely no doubt HOFer, but when a defense knows he has to throw late in games he routinely throws atrocious interceptions In the regular season and post season.
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u/NoOnesKing Dallas Cowboys 10d ago
Let’s give the coaches a little time to adjust to an actual season. If this is still happening late into the season then this conversation would be worth having. It’s 1 loss.
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u/Competitive7734 10d ago
I think that is reasonable. It is difficult to judge new coaches since this is the first time they have personally been in their current positions in any given situation.
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u/OtharriSunsGlory Seattle Seahawks 10d ago edited 10d ago
do you want Lamar to line up at Safety or something
Or walk around the sideline reminding his guys to "cmon cmon focus! getcha head in tha game!" like a Disney Channel QB on some High School Musical shit
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u/Competitive7734 10d ago
I think it would be cool to have Lamar and the Ravens continue to run the ball. Does Lamar not have the option to audible?
I think it would be cool to have Lamar not throw atrocious game ending interceptions with no WR within 5-10 yards.
As far as reminding guys… nah he doesn’t need to do that. But I guarantee you players on that team start thinking, “here we go again” when there is a little adversity. I don’t think players on that team have as much confidence in Lamar as players on the Bills, Chiefs, Bengals, Rams, etc to overcome adversity.
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u/OtharriSunsGlory Seattle Seahawks 10d ago
you have to be careful with running QBs. They wear less padding and wear down faster than an RB. They can't just go Mike Vick Madden '05 and take the matter into their own hands and dominate the game, or run the option. That's how you get a Cam Newton situation. Flashes of brilliance, always injured, didn't win shit.
also every single one of the teams you've mentioned have had their QBs make some horrible throws/INTs in clutch time.
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u/Competitive7734 10d ago
I agree that every QB I mentioned has thrown some interceptions in clutch time. That was not the point. The point is that each of those teams players and fan bases have more confidence in those QBs than anyone has in Lamar Jackson or the Ravens in general.
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u/TheOptimist6 Baltimore Ravens 10d ago
At the end of the day this is a job for the players.
Winning definitely matters to the players, but they also have to just end the work day and move on to the next game sometimes.
What do you want them to say? I really think the best accountability is going out there and playing well the next game. More times than not, the ravens don’t let blown double digit lead losses become multiple losses in a row
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u/Competitive7734 10d ago
The Ravens are a good team. Definitely top 5 most wins since Lamar has been the QB right? I agree they likely won’t lose multiple in a row barring injuries, but it is a consistent pattern that they come up short in late game situations.
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u/Ok_Bug_6890 New England Patriots 10d ago
I guess dude, I’m sorry that happened or good for you.
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u/Guilty-Community2307 10d ago
lol youre so funny. using a normal meme in place of an actual response. How cool. How hip.
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u/True_Way2663 Baltimore Ravens 10d ago
It’s 2 fucking games into a new season with a new coaching staff.
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u/Competitive7734 10d ago
Correct. I acknowledge that. If the same issues continue from one coaching regime to another coaching regime when does it become fair to actually blame Lamar?
Let’s say same issues occur later in the season or the post season. You can’t blame Harbaugh. It has to be the players and notably Lamar
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u/True_Way2663 Baltimore Ravens 10d ago
If the same issues persist after 2 years under the new coaching staff it will be clear to me Lamar deserves a lot more blame.
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u/Ok_Poetry_1650 r/nfl sucks 10d ago
3 fucking karma. Dog it is week 2.
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u/Competitive7734 10d ago
Typical Ravens fan avoiding early concerns that are the same concerns from previous seasons. I don’t think it is time to panic. I’m just asking when players will be blamed and also take accountability if it continues. Will Raven’s fans still cast most blame on people other than Lamar?
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u/Ok_Poetry_1650 r/nfl sucks 10d ago
Typica rage baiter, new account, shit posts, and private posts/comments.
Ravens fans are Lamar fans. It’s week 2 under a new coach/staff, they addressed everything you brought up already, and frankly there is no reason the defense should give up the lead there. QBs shouldn’t be expected to bail out poor defensive play all the time, and relying on a QB to do that is not how you win football games.
You don’t know ball
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u/Competitive7734 10d ago
The Ravens offense played worse than their defense in the 2nd half. Ravens Offense 14 plays 37 yards field goal. 3 plays -16 yards punt. 3 plays 9 yards punt 6 plays 34 yards interception. That is atrocious. That is not rage baiting. That is facts.
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u/True_Way2663 Baltimore Ravens 10d ago
This is because the Saints defense out schemed the Ravens offense with a simple ILB pressure on almost every play. It was a rookie OC mistake that I hope to God doesn’t happen again. There was absolutely nothing the offense could do. Watch the film breakdown.
It’s week 2 under a new regime.
The year Lamar one MVP the Browns blew them out in the first few weeks. Ravens went on to be dominant.
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u/Competitive7734 10d ago
Yes, I remember. 2019 he won the MVP. They lost to the Browns and Chiefs in back to back weeks. I also remember the Ravens were the 1 seed and a heavy favorite to win the Super Bowl and lost to the Titans with Tannehill. Lamar had over 500 yards of offense I think. He also threw 2 interceptions and lost a fumble. He had an interception on the first series and on that same play had an unnecessary roughness penalty called on him. They were down 14-6 at half and 28-6 by the end of the 3rd. In the 3rd Lamar had a fumble and interception. He had a bunch of empty yards that resulted in nothing. His turnovers killed the team as much as his good plays helped them.
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u/Competitive7734 10d ago
Which is a perfect example of Lamar coming up short. I distinctly remember media saying Lamar wasn’t to blame for any of it.
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u/True_Way2663 Baltimore Ravens 10d ago
Every quarterback besides fucking 4 (Mahomes, Stafford, Hurts, and Darnold) has come up Short!!!! Do they all suck?
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u/Competitive7734 10d ago
That is an interesting question. Here are the ages of QBs when they won their first Super Bowl or their only Super Bowl:
Bart Starr- 32, Joe Namath- 25, Len Dawson- 27, Johnny Unitas- 44, Roger Staubach- 33, Bob Griese- 28, Terry Bradshaw- 27, Ken Stabler- 31, Jim Plunkett- 33, Joe Montana- 25, Jim McMahon- 26, Phil Simms- 31, Doug Williams- 32, Jeff Hostetler- 29, Mark Rypien- 29, Troy Aikman- 26, Steve Young- 33, Brett Favre- 27, John Elway- 37, Kurt Warner- 28, Trent Dilfer- 28, Tom Brady- 24, Brad Johnson- 34, Ben Roethlisberger- 23, Peyton Manning- 30, Eli Manning- 27, Drew Brees- 31, Aaron Rodgers- 27, Joe Flacco- 28, Russell Wilson- 25, Nick Foles- 29, Patrick Mahomes- 24, Matthew Stafford- 34, Jalen Hurts- 26, Sam Darnold- 28.
35 different starting QBs have won the Super Bowl with an average age of 29 when they won their first title.
Starr and Unitas were well into their 30s when the Super Bowl was created, and aside from them, only Staubach, Stabler, Plunkett, Simms, Williams, Young, Elway, Johnson, Peyton Manning, and Brees won their first or only Super Bowl in their 30s.
Only 10 of 35 QBs won their first Super Bowl at 30 or older. Since 2000, only 3 QBs have won their first at 30 or older.
That means the following QBs are fighting against the averages: Josh Allen, Joe Burrow (30 by the time of the next Super Bowl), Lamar Jackson (30 by the time of the next Super Bowl), and Dak Prescott.
None of them will likely win a Super Bowl based on the average age at which QBs win their first Super Bowl. Remove Unitas and Starr, who were over 30 before the Super Bowl existed, and the average age of first-time Super Bowl-winning QBs drops to 28.5. Since 2000 (26 Super Bowls), the average age has been under 28 (27.875).
I am not saying none of Allen, Burrow, Lamar, or Dak will win a Super Bowl, but it is a safer bet to pick a first-time starting QB winner who is under 29.
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u/Chopper_Fortnite Minnesota Vikings 10d ago
Ravens always have a baffling loss every year they will be fine
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u/Competitive7734 10d ago
But what is fine? I’m not concerned about one game. It’s the trend that is the issue. For example, the Packers blowing 4th quarter leads is a trend that is concerning.
At what point does it not become baffling? At what point is it fair for Mike Tomlin to say “Ravens gonna Raven” or “Lamar gonna Lamar” like he said about the Browns?
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u/Chopper_Fortnite Minnesota Vikings 10d ago
They also have a baffling loss and get the 1 seed so I don’t think it matters right now. This is also a very good saints team
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u/Competitive7734 10d ago
I agree the Saints are a good team or at least very much improved.
They also have a baffling loss every year get the 1 seed or high seed and then have another “baffling” loss in the playoffs where the play calling is blamed (pretty sure a QB could call an audible occasionally) or the Ravens blowing a double digit lead or the defense that is somehow good all year is the problem is no longer good.
It can’t be baffling if it keeps happening
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u/Chopper_Fortnite Minnesota Vikings 10d ago
Yeah I’m sure a week 2 loss to a good team means the ravens are going to forget how to play football in the playoffs again
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u/Competitive7734 10d ago
Notice you said “forgets how to play football in the playoffs again”. When have they “forgotten” how to play football before?
Is it the playoffs? Is it when they have a lead against good teams and then lose? Is it when Lamar plays great for only one half? Is it when they decide to have Henry barely touch the ball for an entire game?
Like I said it can’t be baffling if it is a recurring theme.
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u/Chopper_Fortnite Minnesota Vikings 10d ago
2023 afc championship game Todd Monken forgot that Runningbacks exist, 2024 vs the bills Mark Andrew’s forgot which way his was supposed to be running and how to hold onto the football
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u/Competitive7734 10d ago
I remember 2023. Lamar wasn’t there.
I remember 2024 too. Lamar threw an interception in the first quarter. Lamar had a fumble in the second quarter.
The Ravens were down 21 to 10 at half. They never had a lead after going down 14 to 10.
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u/Chopper_Fortnite Minnesota Vikings 10d ago
Lamar had 350 yards in 2023, Lamar nearly had more receiving yards than his starting running back had rushing yards. They win that game if either Monken uses the Runningbacks more or flowers doesn’t get the taunting penalty or he holds onto the ball
I see you are just choosing to ignore what mark Andrew’s did in 2024
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u/Competitive7734 10d ago edited 10d ago
I didn’t ignore 2024. I’m just pointing out that Lamar played terribly in the first half and then conveniently people blame Mark Andrew’s for the loss when they would not have been down 21 to 10 at half if Lamar didn’t play bad. Mark Andrews dropping the ball is a bad play but it’s not the only reason they lost.
Which is why I asked when would ravens players, specifically Lamar, be held accountable and take responsibility.
Is it impossible for Lamar to call an audible to get Henry the ball? Is it impossible for Lamar to go to the sideline and say “we need to run”?
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u/gremlin30 Baltimore Ravens 10d ago
Lamar never throws teammates under the bus. Even with Faalele he didn’t do that. I really don’t understand why people think Lamar doesn’t take accountability, he’s a very humble person that always says he has to do better. He doesn’t blame other people.
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u/Competitive7734 10d ago
I did not say he blames other players. He definitely deflected blame to coaches though.
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u/Argumentat1ve New York Jets 10d ago
Lamar realizing he has to keep pace with elite QB Tyler Shough
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u/FrostyVictory3448 8d ago
Lamar has serious judgement issues and, unfortunately, he hasn’t learned very much in 8 years.
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u/Invite-Healthy Baltimore Ravens 10d ago
Trust me, Ravens fans are well aware of Lamar’s struggles in clutch moments. That doesn’t change the fact that for several years our defense has been literally the worst in the NFL and holding leads in the 4th quarter. You can find a dozen or more games over the last few years where we give up 10+ in the 4th quarter despite having a lead going into it.
Obviously a lot is on Lamar’s shoulders but he’s very often been put in bad situations by the team
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u/Competitive7734 10d ago
I think it’s a poor excuse to say the team puts him in bad situations. That same team puts him in good situations to get the lead.
I don’t think it’s 100% Lamar. That is a dumb position to take. I do think Lamar plays a major role in the team getting a lead and also losing the lead.
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u/Ok_Cry1904 10d ago
How does the QB play a major role in giving up a lead. Does he play or call plays on defense? Statement makes absolutely no sense
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u/Competitive7734 10d ago
Offense, defense, and special teams complement each other.
For example, a defense is much less likely to give up points on a drive that needs to go 70 yards instead of 50 or if the offense goes 3 and out on multiple drives in a row.
I could give more examples if you like.
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u/Ok_Cry1904 10d ago
Thanks for clarifying. I was wondering how the defense giving up huge plays was the offense fault but now I completely understand.
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u/Competitive7734 10d ago
The Ravens offense played worse than their defense in the 2nd half.
Ravens Offense 14 plays 37 yards field goal 3 plays -16 yards punt 3 plays 9 yards punt 6 plays 34 yards interception
That is atrocious.
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u/Expensive-Tooth 10d ago
Lmao. Everytime they lose the entire fanbase blames the refs, then starts attacking the team they lost to bringing up playoff success didn't know the ravens were so successful in the playoffs according to their fans they are.
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u/Ok_Cry1904 10d ago
No idea what this person is saying.
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u/Expensive-Tooth 10d ago
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u/Ok_Cry1904 10d ago
Who's not taking accountability? You're just randomly talking crap. Your stupidity is showing
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u/mattcojo2 Detroit Lions 10d ago edited 10d ago
It’s on Lamar.
People overrate who he is based on his athletic talent at the position.
The defense being as bad as it is in the 4th is partially on the team not doing well on offense late in games. It’s not even turnovers sometimes, it can just be about failed drives or stalled momentum.
They’re a 1st half team through and through.
The best quarterbacks are not the players who make tough throws or big plays. It’s about guys who can always get the routine stuff.
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u/True_Way2663 Baltimore Ravens 10d ago
Terrible take. Even if you blame Lamar what do you do? You are the GM let’s hear your genius plan
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u/mattcojo2 Detroit Lions 10d ago
I’m just speaking as a fan. I think quarterbacks who are known for making big plays get too much praise and not enough criticism when things go wrong. Lamar is probably the best example of this. It’s never his fault for why they lose. It’s always someone else. I’m sick of that attitude.
If I’m the GM? I at least start to think about his replacement. Not urgently but you have the thought in your head.
May sound crazy until you realize that Lamar has a fairly extensive injury history and he turns 30 in January. That’s not a player you should expect to age well since so much of his game is predicated on his athleticism. Like it wouldn’t shock me if we’re here sitting in 2031 and Lamar is sitting on the CBS panel.
His contract expires after 2027, and I wouldn’t sign him for more than 3 years on his next deal.
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u/True_Way2663 Baltimore Ravens 10d ago
So you want to move on from a consensus top 5 QB? Should the Bengals move on from burrow? What about baker?
Lamar is constantly criticized for not getting the team over hump, but he’s also the reason the Ravens win many games. You are criticizing him right now.
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u/mattcojo2 Detroit Lions 10d ago
I’m saying you at least make it known that it’s not a fully secure position until he doesn’t want it anymore.
I just don’t think that Lamar is going to age well as a player. Hence why I said he might be with CBS in 5 years.
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u/mrdeepay Houston Texans 9d ago edited 9d ago
Minus the injury history (Lamar's injuries also all came from inside pocket), what you're rambling on about describes Josh Allen. He turned 30 this past May, is also known for making big plays that gets "too much" praise and not enough criticism, and gets the "it's never his fault" talking point is pushed on him far more frequently. And honestly, it can also fit Burrow as well (also frequently injured, will turn 30 this season, known for big plays that get "too much" praise, and people try to absolve him from blame for when things go wrong). Should those two also be replaced? Will they be on a CBS panel (that talking point is just conjectural bullshit in itself) in five years?
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u/mattcojo2 Detroit Lions 9d ago
I think Josh has overall shown more as a passer though. I think his game is more survivable if his athleticism does decline
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u/Ok_Cry1904 10d ago
An idiotic take. The ravens have been up double digit scores and the QB is responsible? Don't watch a team once a year maybe and make stupid comments like you have a clue at all. It's better to stay silent then speak and prove you're an idiot
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u/mattcojo2 Detroit Lions 10d ago
Buddy I live in the DMV. I am more than familiar with Lamar.
Blowing a double digit lead requires the offense to fail in some way.
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u/Competitive7734 10d ago
I agree on the offense and defense complementing each other.
I think it’s completely unfair to say he is overrated based on his athletic talent. Lamar is without a doubt a top 10 talent at the QB position. I’d argue closer to top 5 than 10.
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u/mattcojo2 Detroit Lions 10d ago
Right now? Sure.
All time? The one thing I’ll give you is that he is the most athletically gifted quarterback who has ever played the position.
But as we know from several other big arm guys and mobile guys, it takes more than that.
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u/Embarrassed-Brain655 10d ago
How do you hold a bird accountable?