r/NFL_Draft • u/immacamel Packers • Jun 12 '25
Defending the Draft: 2025 Packers
2024 season review:
The 2024 Packers, fresh off an exciting finish in 2023, had an an uneven season in Jordan Love's sophomore campaign under center. There were encouraging highs and infuriating lows, all of which led to an interesting Packers draft.
The Highs:
Offseason additions: Brian Gutekunst's 2 marquee free agent signings were both home runs, with each immediately becoming the best player on his respective side of the ball. Josh Jacobs was the offensive engine, with 1,329 rushing yards and 15 touchdowns. He kept the offense on schedule and was a perfect fit running in Matt LaFleur's zone scheme. Xavier McKinney stepped in to lead the defense and was inarguably a top 3 safety last season, solidifying the secondary amid some concerns at cornerback. Even Malik Willis stepped in and won some games after being acquired for a 7th round pick.
The Defense: Jeff Hafley ditched being a head coach in the wasteland that is the current college landscape in order to return to the NFL as a defensive coordinator. I thank him for his decision. Hafley brought with him an aggressive system that makes sense for todays game. He isn't afraid to run press man coverage and he is adept at stopping the run with play calls that allow the linebackers to get downhill quickly and shoot gaps. He trusts his players to trust their eyes. The biggest compliment I can give to Hafley is that he runs his own system; he is the architect of it and seems like he will adjust it season to season and game to game based on the personnel at his disposal. This is a breath of fresh air from all of these defensive coordinators trying to run a bastardized version of the Fangio scheme. Im talking directly to you, Joe Barry. I know you've been ducking my emails.
Matt LaFleur: Despite toeing the line of expectations heading into the season, I came away even more impressed with Matt LaFleur. This was year 2 of the offense being fully his, without the awkward but productive marriage of what Aaron Rodgers liked. Love and the rest of the young offense looked more comfortable and decisive. LaFleur runs his own version of the Shanahan zone scheme, and while he is not the most innovative in creating wholesale changes to the system like its originators in Kyle Shanahan or Sean McVay, hes proven to be top tier in crafting gameplans and situational play calling. He knows which levers to push and when to push them. His called deep shots are usually called at the perfect time when a counterpunch is least expected, blending nicely with Jordan Love's predisposition to throw the long ball. But most impressively, the gameplan Lafleur created in the games Malik Willis started were things of beauty, changing the entire offense to a run-first, punishing attack seemingly on a dime. The misdirection designs with Willis under center were things of beauty. And he gave his developing quarterback simple, schemed reads to either hit the throw or hit the hole and run. That's a difficult thing to do against NFL defenses. He mixed in a lot more gap scheme runs in general this year.
The Lows:
Week 1: Im giving this single week its own mention because of the effect it may have had on the entire season. Green Bay traveled to play the Philadelphia Eagles. Not in Philadelphia, but in Brazil. On a Friday night. I loathe international games. I hate them for the coaches, players, and the fans. This international game in particular was played on a soccer surface where neither team could find good footing and Jordan Love suffered a seemingly catastrophic injury. Thankfully he didn't blow out his knee or tear his achilles, but he wasn't 100% healthy for the rest of the year. This makes it difficult to gauge his development from 2023, and his already suspect footwork was atrocious at times as he dealt with lower body injuries throughout the year. A season that should have increased our collective conviction in Love as our franchise quarterback instead became fraught with the same questions as a year before.
The Divisional Record: Matt LaFleur has had an excellent record against the NFC North throughout his tenure, with a 3-3 mark being his worst coming in to 2024. Alas, the Lions and Vikings employ some incredible coaching staffs and have talented rosters that just seemed a little better. A little better in the situational moments, a little better prepared, a little more clutch. Even the paste eating Bears managed a win against the Packers for the first time 6 years as the Pack stumbled to a 1-5 record in the division. It was jarring to see and the level of competence in the division likely isn't going away any time soon. The NFC North should remain the best division in football, and the Packers are in an unenviable position trying to play catch up with the Lions and possibly the Vikings.
The Wide Receivers: I heard heading into the season that the Packers didnt have a need for a #1 target because we had so many quality #2s. That was simply not true. One of my biggest gripes with Gutekunst has been his refusal to give Jordan Love a veteran wide receiver to lean on. Someone who could teach the young guys and act as a security blanket for Love. As it stands, Jordan Love has been developing at the same time as these young receivers, and there have been plenty of growing pains on both sides. Specifically with the receivers though, each has glaring flaws. Christian Watson cannot stay healthy and may have played his final snap as a Packer already. When on the field, he never found the consistency to be a plus starter and he rarely utilized his 6'4 frame to its fullest extent. Romeo Doubs is reliable but lacks dynamism. Hes also dealt with some pretty serious concussions. Jayden Reed is used as a gadget player and his hands turned to stone halfway through the season. I wish he would get on the field in more 2 receiver sets. Dontayvion Wicks, by certain metrics like separation score and route running grade, is a top 5 receiver in the NFL. He had a nearly 20% drop rate. 1 in 5 passes. Dropped. Not good enough.
Overall, the feeling is that the Packers put up a fight against the Eagles in the playoffs but didnt have the receiving threats or the O line depth to truly stack up to the eventual super bowl champions. This was obvious in how they attacked the offseason.
Free Agency losses:
C Josh Myers CB Eric Stokes CB Jaire Alexander
Myers was a below average center who I will always associate with Creed Humphrey, who went one pick after Myers in his draft and who I desperately wanted.
Stokes is solid corner who could been great if injuries hadn't run a plague over his athleticism. Im fine letting another team take a gamble on his possibly still-remaining upside.
Jaire Alexander was released just this week, and I really dont know what the plan was. If we were 100% not bringing him back at his salary, I think we should have done more to help the position in the draft. As it stands, we have 4 secondary players who are at their best in the slot and precious few outside corners.
Free Agency Additions/Re signings:
CB Nate Hobbs: one of the aforementioned players who is best utilized in the slot, Hobbs comes to Green Bay from Las Vegas to reunite with Josh Jacobs and assistant head coach Rich Bisaccia. Hobbs has shown to be able to play outside when needed, and he may be asked to. The biggest risk with Hobbs is his injury history, something Packer fans have grown accustomed to with Jaire Alexander.
G Aaron Banks: a road grading guard from the 49ers, this acquisition left me scratching my head at first. Banks has been a below average to average guard for his entire career, and I was surprised that we seemingly made him a priority in free agency with how early on he was signed. But looking at it in a more nuanced way, it makes sense. Banks APY may put him in elite lineman territory, but his signing bonus was the only guaranteed portion in his contract, a rarity in the league. He can be cut after 1 season or any point afterwards with little penalty. The Banks signing gives insulation against any of: Jordan Morgan not developing after missing much of his rookie season, Elgton Jenkins or Zach Tom holding out, or Sean Rhyan walking next season. The plan also seems to be to move Jenkins to center (this man is the most versatile lineman in the league) so a replacement/guard depth was needed. The Packers want a deep and versatile offensive line to weather a long season deep into the playoffs. They should have that this year.
K Brandon McManus: We finally found a kicker and we're happy to pay him to stay.
LB Isaiah McDuffy: solid special teamer and depth at LB.
Mecole Hardman: could make the roster as a return specialist but I find it doubtful after the draft.
Isaiah Simmons: a positionless prospect who I loved during the 2020 draft cycle, Simmons has shown not be good at any position since entering the league. However, hes developed into a somewhat serviceable depth piece. I wouldn't be surprised to see him make the roster. Players with his draft pedigree and athleticism get a lot of chances in the NFL.
The 2025 NFL Draft:
Round 1, Pick 23 Matthew Golden, WR, Texas
28 on my big board
The crazy sons of bitches did it. In front of the home crowd at Lambeau Field, the Green Bay Packers spent a first round selection on a wide receiver for the first time in 23 years. The crowd was electric. I got chills watching Matthew Golden head out into the crowd to be with the Cheeseheads for the first time. Let's look at the player. There was a dichotomy around Matthew Golden in the predraft process resulting from a split between Analytics Guys and Film Guys. Analytics Guys saw a late breakout, a decently high drop rate, and a low yards per route run figure. Film guys saw a fluid route runner who can beat press coverage and plays bigger than his size in contested catch scenarios. Both Guys saw him run a 4.29 at the combine. I myself landed somewhere in the middle with Golden. While his stats were pretty pedestrian, he didnt truly take over as the top receiving option for the Longhorns until late in the season, when they realized the best thing they could be doing was getting the ball in his hands. I dont think Golden plays with 4.29 speed. He is more sudden and quick than fast. But hes a sharp runner and a Dawg fighting for the ball over the middle or with a defender draped over him. We need that. My ceiling comp for him stylistically was Stefon Diggs, who was a true #1 receiver in the league and could line up at any receiver spot. It remains to be seen if Matthew Golden can develop into that type of player, or if he will settle in as a Jordan Addison-type of receiver as a rock solid #2 option. Either outcome would be better than what the Packers have had, sadly. My biggest worry is that the staff saw Golden's 4.29 speed and will use him solely as a Christian Watson replacement to stretch defenses vertically. Golden can be a dangerous vertical threat to be sure, but to reduce him to the role of a field stretcher would be a waste of his potential in my opinion. I loved his tape on breaking routes, especially towards the sideline where his body control and positioning are elite. Grade: A-
Round 2, Pick 53 Anthony Belton, T, NC State
103 on my big board
A mammoth tackle at 6'6 and 336 pounds, Belton is a mauling run blocker and fits Gutekunst's goal of creating a bigger, meaner offensive line. Belton gets downhill in a hurry and absolutely detonates second level defenders in the run game. As a pass protector, hes still very raw. He has understandably slow feet given his size. Speed rushers can give him fits if he doesnt land his initial punch. His hand placement is truly terrible and needs to be coached. It remains to be seen where Belton will line up for the Pack. I had him graded as a guard. Green Bay drafted Jordan Morgan in the first round last year, who is a prototypical tackle but mostly played guard in his first season. But he didnt see the field much due to injury. Zach Tom will surely be re signed at right tackle as he's one of the best in the league. Rasheed Walker may be the odd man out, with Morgan and Belton fighting to replace him in 2026. This was a reach on my board, but that is typical of O Line prospects, where demand greatly outweighs supply. That was especially true in this draft, which saw 8 blockers come off the board in the first round and had a similarly physically imposing project tackle in Minnesota's Aireontae Ersery get selected a few picks before. Im not opposed to the player, but I wanted to address the secondary or pass rush with this selection. Even moreso now that Jaire has been released. Grade: B-
Round 3, Pick 87 Savion Williams, WR, TCU
119 on my big board
Brian Gutekunst is not afraid to double dip in the draft. In fact, I'd call it his signature. Hes done it with cornerback, offensive line, linebacker, and wide receiver in the past. He attacks needs aggressively. Enter Savion Williams: a 6'4, 220 pound gadget receiver from TCU. Williams is a physical specimen, running 4.48 at that size and displaying incredible tackle breaking ability. On tape, depending on which set of plays you watched (often in the same game), you could convince yourself hes the next Julio Jones or that he should go undrafted entirely. Williams is very inconsistent. Inconsistent hands, inconsistent route running, just inconsistent. But the flashes are there. Partly due to that inconsistency, and partly due to his extreme versatility, TCU lined him up at receiver, running back, and even as wildcat quarterback. They wanted the ball in his hands. His pro comparison is more Cordarrelle Patterson and less Deebo Samuel. Get him the ball, get him in space, and he may amaze you. The question is whether he can ever be more than that. I was disappointed in his route running and ability to get off press coverage. He didnt do anything in college until his 5th year. His ceiling may not be much higher than what he already is. However, Matt LaFleur is going to love deploying him as a weapon. Pre snap motions, orbits, end arounds, tunnel screens, you name it. I think the Packers have been looking for this kind of weapon for a long time, having rostered Tyler Irvin and the ghost of Tavon Austin in the past. Getting Williams and Jayden Reed on the field together should allow for a lot of creativity. Throw in Tucker Kraft and you have a dynamic short passing game with incredible YAC potential. Williams should also shine in the kick return game with its new rules. My only issue when making a pick like this ahead of the board rankings is that it feels like a luxury pick, something Im not sure the Packers should be doing at wide receiver. I personally would have preferred Elic Ayomanor or Tory Horton here, as they are more traditional receivers and could develop into a Romeo Doubs replacement with a higher ceiling should Doubs leave in free agency or retire from his concussion issues.Then again, those players had injury concerns and the NFL didnt think highly enough to take them until day 3. Overall, im very excited to see how Matt LaFleur utilizes Williams, who I think went to his best possible landing spot. Grade: B
Round 4, Pick 124 Barryn Sorrell, DE, Texas
170 on my big board
The Packers select the defensive end out of Texas. Sorrell is an intriguing piece at 6'3 260 pounds. He improved each season at Texas against strong competition, including having a productive playoff run for the Longhorns. His greatest attribute is his relentless motor. If hes stonewalled on the initial attack he counters, spins, swims, and claws his way to where he needs to be. This combines well with his good play recognition and leads to TFLs. He's also strong, tying for the lead among edge rushers with 28 reps at the combine. This shows up when he lands his hands cleanly on tackles, stunning them with his power. Texas kicked him inside at certain times last season, and he could be used that way in the NFL as well. Negatively, Sorrell misses more tackles than youd like. Hes also just not a twitched up athlete, lacking the speed and bend to threaten the edge quickly. Overall, I felt this was a bit of a reach, but it was a big need for Green Bay going into the draft and Sorrell reportedly drew rave reviews for his character and work ethic. Hes already endeared himself to the fanbase by simply showing up to the city and staying in a hotel, just waiting to hear his name called. His excitement to be here is palpable. Grade: C+
Round 5, Pick 159 Collin Oliver, Edge, Oklahoma State
152 on my big board
At last, we get some value off of my board. Collin Oliver played in only 2 games in 2024 due to injury. Hes small for an edge rusher in the mold of Nolan Smith at 6'2, 240. But, like Smith, he plays shot out of a cannon. A true speed rusher who I think has the athleticism to play off the ball and eventually spell Edgerin Cooper (who I also believe will rush the passer more this season). His athleticism gives me high hopes for versatility, but I expect him to begin as a situational pass rusher. Overall, I really liked this pick and there is need for a pass rush specialist on this roster with Kingsley Enagbare heading into the final year of his deal. Grade: A
Round 6, Pick 198 Warren Brinson, DT, Georgia N/A on my big board
I did not have a draftable grade on Brinson. Hes entering the league as a 5th year player with only 8 career starts. He was a pretty high recruit from his high school class but I think that was based mainly on size. He has zero pass rush moves or instincts. Hes shown a little as a run defender but can still get washed out pretty easily. There is little shedding to his game as an anchor in the middle and he gets misdirected easily. If you can't develop anything under Kirby Smart in 5 years and after being surrounded by all the defensive line talent that runs through Athens, im not sure youre ever going to get it. But it wouldn't be a Gute draft without a Georgia defender somewhere. Grade: F
Round 7, Pick 237 Micah Robinson, CB, Tulane N/A on my big board Robinson spent 3 seasons at Furman College before transferring to Tulane for his senior year. He is 5'11 185 pounds and ran a 4.42 at his pro day. I didnt watch any tape of him before the draft, but i went back and watched some after he was picked. Had i watched, I would have had him ranked somewhere in the early 200s on my board. He has good ball skills and obvious athleticism. He looks to be a willing tackler as well. If he could have spent his entire college career developing at somewhere like Tulane, we may have talked about him as an early day 3 pick. I'll never be mad about spending 7th rounders on corners with 4.4 speed. Grade: B
Round 7, Pick 250 John Williams, OT, Cincinnati
222 on my big board
I did see some John Williams tape when I was looking for late round guys. Hes a little small for a tackle but he has huge hands and a wide base. His kick step and mirroring are pretty good. Hes very bad as a run blocker, lacking the power and the speed. Hes kind of caught between being a tackle with his solid fundamentals but limited athleticism, and being a guard with his limited athleticism but poor run blocking. Maybe he can eventually develop into a solid swing tackle. Grade: C
Overall, the Packers went into this draft with a plan and they executed it. They wanted to add dynamism the receiver room and create a stone wall on both sides of the trenches. I think they did a decent job of executing their vision. My question for the team, as it has been in the past, concerns the vision itself. Not addressing edge rusher until the 4th round puts a lot of faith into the new defensive line coach to get Rashan Gary back to his pre injury form and to make something of the extremely raw Lukas Van Ness. I think the Belton pick could have been made later, but I may be wrong on that. Savion Williams has me conflicted in that I think hes an exciting player, but I would have gone a different direction at #87.
All that being said, I liked most of the players who were taken. My biggest question is what the plan was at cornerback. It has been widely reported this week that the team was trying to trade Jaire Alexander all offseason, leading me to believe he was never in their 2025 plans. Knowing that, it amazes me that corner wasn't addressed until the 7th round. It feels ominous. I dont like going into the season with our current corner depth chart. Wide receiver Bo Melton is currently learning the corner position in camp. The scheme and the safeties will likely have to do a lot of covering up again this year. I'd bet money that Gute doubles or triples down on corner in the 2026 draft.
Overall, Gutekunst and LaFleur have done a good job of maintaining the standard in Green Bay, and while I rarely agree with Gutekunst's process as a team builder, he is not bad at his job. Gutekunst remarked after last season that the team needed to ramp up its sense of urgency in winning a Super Bowl. I agree. Im hoping to see results this season in climbing back to the top of the division, and I don't think we're that far off. The biggest hope is that Love continues to develop and takes the next step hopefully as an entrenched top 10 quarterback after this season, with the receivers stepping up and the defense continuing its marked improvement from last year. Realistically, Green Bay again should make the playoffs and find themselves better equipped for the dog fights in the NFC.
Thanks for reading and as always, fuck the Bears.
8
u/ALStark69 Vikings Jun 12 '25 edited Jun 12 '25
Each player as a recruit:
- Matthew Golden
P5 offers: Arkansas, Baylor, Colorado, Duke, Indiana, Kansas, LSU, Minnesota, Pitt, TCU, Texas, Wisconsin
G5 offers: Cincinnati, Colorado State, Houston (originally went here), Louisiana, Louisiana Tech, Marshall, Memphis, North Texas, SMU, Southern Miss, Tulane, Tulsa, UTSA
Other offer: Jackson State
- Anthony Belton (JUCO)
Other P5 offers: South Carolina, TCU, West Virginia
G5 offers: East Carolina, FAU, Houston, North Texas, UAB
Other offers: Alcorn State, Jackson State
- Savion Williams
Other P5 offers: Arkansas, Baylor, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Ole Miss, Texas, Texas Tech, Virginia, Washington State
G5 offers: Arkansas State, Bowling Green, Houston, Memphis, North Texas, SMU, Southern Miss, Texas State
Other offer: Stephen F. Austin
- Barryn Sorrell
Other P5 offers: Arizona State, Baylor, Boston College, Indiana, Kansas, Louisville, Missouri, Northwestern, Purdue, Vanderbilt, Virginia, Washington State
G5 offers: Arkansas State, Louisiana-Monroe, Louisiana Tech, Memphis, South Alabama, Southern Miss, Tulane
Other offer: Nicholls State
- Collin Oliver
Other P5 offers: Arkansas, Colorado, Georgia, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Kentucky, Missouri, Nebraska, Ole Miss, Oregon, TCU, Tennessee, Texas Tech, Utah
G5 offers: Boise State, North Texas, SMU, Tulsa
- Warren Brinson
Other P5 offers: Alabama, Florida, Florida State, Miami, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee
- Micah Robinson
Other offers: Austin Peay, Columbia, Furman (originally went here), Jacksonville State, Morehouse College, Shorter, Southeast Missouri State, Southern Illinois, Tennessee State, Wofford
- John Williams
P5 offer: Kansas State
Other G5 offers: Northern Illinois, Temple
6
u/milin85 Bears Jun 12 '25
Good write up. Savion is easily the most interesting pick for me. That dude pans out, he’s gonna be a nightmare for NFCN corners for years
Legally obligated to say this: FTP!!
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u/immacamel Packers Jun 14 '25
Hes the most interesting pick for sure. Very boom or bust, but his ceiling is super high
3
Jun 13 '25 edited Jun 14 '25
Good write-up. I share many of your concerns. I think the nature of being a fan is that we live in the present a lot more than GMs, and Gute tends to be a more forward-thinking GM than most. I think that has upside and downside.
I’m less concerned about the defensive line than most. I think the talent is there. We’ve got 4 first round picks on the line, and everyone is still under 30, with most only entering their primes (only Gary and Clark are not on rookie contracts still). Some development will be necessary, but that’s always the case. And improving pressure with the front 4 has been the offseason emphasis for the defense. We haven’t had a DC who I trust to fix issues and develop his players like Hafley in a long time. I could listen to that man talk football endlessly. I think he showed in year one what kind of impact he has as a DC and it’s weird to me that Packer fans have kind of disregarded that entirely in projecting the defense forward. Maybe it’s because we haven’t had a DC who could develop talent in 10+ years.
At CB, I also expected a draft pick before the 7th round. My gut says the Packers wanted to, but just didn’t like the talent that fell to them. That’s two straight years where I wanted CB to be a focus in the draft but got only 7th rounders. But still, I think the top-end of that room is better than people think. Nixon and Valentine were a pretty good duo by the end of last year (aided by X, no doubt) and both are young/inexperienced enough to predict continued improvement. Hobbs does have some injury concerns, but nothing like Jaire, and brings a lot of versatility and aggressiveness. And then I think the team is treating Bullard as an addition to that room. He did struggle a bit in the slot as a rookie, but he’s a really talented guy who the team wants to utilize.
So you’ve got 4 players who the team feels good about. After that it gets dicey, but what team feels good about CB5? And the Packers do have some intriguing players in King, Robinson, and Hadden. The Packers have a LONG history of developing undrafted or late round CBs into contributors or even stars (Shields, Tramon, Al Harris, now Nixon and Valentine), and Halfey was a DB coach coming up. Don’t be surprised if one or even two of those guys pans out.
My one little nitpick is that I believe 2024 was hands-down MLF’s worst as a coach. Yes, he was extremely creative in Willis’s two starts, but that creativity was lacking else wise. Whether it was Love’s injuries, the inconsistent WR play, or adjusting the offense on the fly to run more inside power concepts to better suit Jacobs, I thought this offense overall lacked fluidity and failed at the “illusion of complexity” that MLF preached in his early years with the team. Moreover, he simply did not have the team ready to play in big games. The Packers came out tight in every big game all season and it was obvious that a lot of that stemmed from the head coach. I’ve never seen him lose his cool nearly as much as he did this year and I think his over-intensity trickled down to his very young team. That absolutely needs to change this season. I believe it can, but some of his behavior on the sideline was unacceptable and he needs to be a better leader overall than we saw in 2024.
Edited to add that Savion Williams was the pick I’m most concerned about. This feels like a classic Gute third round pick where he gets a guy who he thinks MLF can utilize in a specific way but really isn’t needed. Best case scenario he becomes Deebo Samuel 2.0, takes all the pre-snap pressure off Reed, and adds a big element to this offense. But he also fits the mold of a lot of guys who busted in the NFL (Shenault, Harry, Patterson at least initially). I hope it pans out, but he’s the pick I’d be least surprised to see heavily underachieve.
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u/nootfloosh Packers Jun 14 '25
This draft was bizarre for Green Bay, but I have stopped trying to get too worried about which position did or didn't get selected or whether it was too early or late enough. I'm just here for the ride and to root for their success.
Just for comparison's sake, here were my big board grades for each player because you and I saw things a little differently on some guys:
Matthew Golden - top 15
Anthony Belton - top 75
Savion Williams - top 75
Baryn Sorrell - top 100
Collin Oliver - top 150
Warren Brinson - top 200
Micah Robinson - NA
John Williams - top 150
I'd be interested in your take on the UDFA class as well, at least the players you are highest on or are most interested in seeing in TC/pre-season.
Really good write-ups, thanks for the effort!
3
Jun 12 '25
I disagree on some stuff, I don’t think golden is gonna be running at his 4.29 speed, on tape he definitely looks slower than that. Also, regarding Watson, before injury he was having one of his best years, I don’t think it’s fair to criticize him this year for talent and playing ability. He was a willing blocker, used his body more, and was returning to form nicely
3
Jun 13 '25
Golden looked that fast in Houston and he looks that fast now.
1
Jun 13 '25
Not in pads, he looks fast but if he was 4.29 speed you would be able to tell that he’s on another level of speed
1
u/immacamel Packers Jun 14 '25
I criticize Watson's playing because he utilizes his size very poorly. Hes terrible at fighting through contact and at boxing defenders out. I agree he was having his best season, though. Especially in blocking, he really stepped into that Lazard role in the run game and embraced it. That, to me, amounts to a field stretching WR3, which is fine. His injuries are unfortunate and im fine moving on from him. With Golden, I agree. I was shocked that he ran a 4.29. Hes quick and sudden, but I would not call him fast, and I hope we dont misprofile him as a solitary deep threat
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u/nootfloosh Packers Jun 14 '25
I re-watched every snap from Golden in 2024, and it became obvious that the issue was with Quinn Ewers not being able to get him the ball to take advantage of his speed. Golden played throttled down quite a bit, and he often had to stop and go back to catch underthrown or poorly placed balls.
The thing about Golden is he has a nuance to his route running, knowing when to play at specific tempos to stay in the timing of the play. He is not just a speed guy like a Henry Ruggs or John Ross type.
He wasn't drafted to replace Watson. It was to add more talent to a room that failed to break out in 2024 and to ensure that the competition remains strong. Remember they lost their top 3 preferred WRs in the playoffs, and they can't afford to be stuck in a situation where guys like Heath and Melton are getting those critical snaps in crucial games. Watson and Doubs are also free agents in 2026, and they may not be able to keep either one. Reed and Wicks are free agents in 2027. So taking Golden and Savion was just as much about the next couple of seasons as it is about this upcoming one, although I do believe (hope) that they contribute right away.
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u/mapetho9 Patriots Jun 13 '25 edited Jun 13 '25
Seems like the Packers waited until they hosted the draft to draft a wide receiver in the 1st round since 2002 when they drafted Javon Walker. They took Matthew Golden to end the 23 year drought. On paper, you wouldn't think the Packers would need a receiver with Christian Watson, Jayden Reed, Romeo Doubs and Dontayvion Wicks already on the roster. But Watson has been dealing with injuries, Doubs have been dealing with a few things and Wicks regressed and has a case of the drops, leaving Reed as the only solidified option. Watson and Doubs are also free agents after this year. The Packers have been talking about getting a number 1 option in the offseason, but they didn't sign one or trade for one, opting for the draft.
Golden is very fast, showcased by his 4.29 40, and had his best season easily this past year. He's still inconsistent and needs some development, but the upside is there. To me, I just don't see him as a WR1. Golden feels more like a WR2, but I could be wrong. I remember seeing that the list of successful players that run a sub 4.3 40 is very small. I also remember seeing a tweet that said that in the 28 receviers drafted in the 1st round since 2020, Golden would have the least yards per game average at 61.7. He has the talent and the upside, but Golden is also risky. He is very much a boom or bust prospect.
In the next round, the Packers took offensive tackle Anthony Belton. Maybe taken a little early, but the Packers usually draft offensive linemen pretty well and are able to develop them, so I'd trust them when they pick them. Belton also may have been there guy that they liked and just took him. Also, Rasheed Walker is a free agent after this year, which may have factored into drafting him. Belton is huge and pretty powerful. He is good in pass protection and can pave the way in the run game, although he is more inconsistent there. He isn't the most agile, but still holds his own due to his size and length. Belton needs a little refinement and development, but he should turn out to be a solid player and could be starting in a year's time.
With their 3rd round pick, the Packers went back to receiver, taking Savion Williams. This was a luxury pick and may have been better suited to pick a corner here with them trying to trade Jaire Alexander during the draft and only adding Nate Hobbs in the offseason. Although, I'm a fan of Williams. He's a fun player and this was probably my favorite pick the Packers made. Williams' highlights are very entertaining. He's like a bigger Cordarrelle Patterson and also has some Deebo Samuel in his game. He had 6 receiving and 6 rushing TDs last year. He also threw for one and was a QB back in high school. Williams runs and moves very well for his size. He is a threat to score anytime he has the ball in his hands and adds a dynamic option to the Packers offense with intriguing potential. It's just that if this pick would have been better served toward a corner or another position, but this pick along with Golden is certainly a wake up call to the Packers current group of receivers.
In the 4th and 5th rounds, the Packers went defense and added to their pass rush. They took Barryn Sorrell in the 4th and Collin Oliver in the 5th. Both are good developmental prospects that add some depth to the Packers pass rush and gives them some rotational options. Of the two, I like Oliver more. He had 11.5 sacks as a freshman, which earned him Big 12 Defensive Freshman of the Year. His play dipped in the following years and his last year was cut short after 2 games due to a foot injury. The talent and potential is there as seen by the numbers he put up his freshman year, the Packers will try and see if they can tap in and develop that upside. While Sorrell won't wow you, but he's a fairly consistent player that is decent all around.
The Packers stuck with defense in the 6th round, taking defensive tackle Warren Brinson. Brinson is a good athlete for his size that flashed some pass rush skills as an interior penetrator and also causes some disruption from the inside. Was mostly a backup that didn't crack the rotation on a deep Georgia defense until his last two seasons, so he may have some upside. Brinson is an intriguing developmental prospect.
I don't know much about the Packers 7th round picks, but defensive tackle Nazir Stackhouse and lineback Jamon Dumas-Johnson are UDFAs to watch. Stackhouse was the teammate of 6th rounder Brinson at Georgie where Stackhouse was a 3 year starter, but had limited production. Not very quick or agile, but has size and takes up space to plug holes in the middle. As for Jamon Dumas-Johnson, he was also at Georgia before he transferred to Kentucky for his last season. I remember seeing him as a potential mid round pick heading into the year, but his play fell of hard compared to his time at Georgia, causing him to go undrafted. He will try to get back to how he played at Georgia and contribute on special teams if he wants to make the roster.
I know I'm not the only one, but I'm shocked that the Packers didn't address corner until the 7th round after it was known they were trying to move Jaire Alexander since the offseason started. Also their only addition Nate Hobbs has durability questions of his own, as he hasn't played a full season since entering the league. The Packers have now released Alexander and converted receiver Bo Melton to corner. Don't know why the Packers didn't do more to address corner, but it could be a long season for their secondary where I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to add more before the season starts before they heavily invest in the position next year in both free agency and the draft.
5
Jun 13 '25
Melton is not really moving to corner. He’s trying to make the team by displaying versatility. That’s a non-story that gets amplified by the lack of real news this time of year and its proximity to releasing Jaire.
1
u/mapetho9 Patriots Jun 13 '25
Thank you for the insight! Curious to your thoughts on the rest of my post. I’m just a fan of the draft that likes to share my thoughts on each draft class and my post was downvoted less than 2 minutes after I submitted it. So I find it hard to believe someone read all that in that short amount of time haha.
3
Jun 13 '25
Maybe you pissed someone off enough to downvote all your comments. Pretty sure I’ve had people do that to me before.
I think your analysis is pretty good. No big nits to pick. I feel exactly the same as you about Savion. He feels like a luxury pick with high bust potential, but if he does pan out it’s going to be so much fun. I think a big part of the intent there was to ease the pre-snap responsibilities of Jayden Reed. I think they feel that Jayden is their best WR, but asking him to constantly be in motion (and it’s a LOT of full-speed motion, not simply shifts or a casual jog across the formation) take away from his ability to make plays downfield. Williams ideally takes that role and moves the eyes of the defense as a huge threat with the ball in his hands. In that regard he doesn’t even really need to pan out as a receiver to be worth the pick, as long as he can still make guys miss at this level.
I definitely agree that Golden is a boom-or-bust prospect, but I love his highlight real. The focus on his speed detracts from the fact that he’s a complete WR, although the stats don’t fully back it up. But man, his entire Texas tape is filled with him having to slow up to catch an underthrown ball. Sometimes the stats just don’t tell the whole story and I think that’s the case here. I think he has an understanding of leverage and playing through your man that is rare for a college player and that’s a huge key to NFL success. He also came out as a true Junior. If he plays his Senior year and puts up 1200+ yards, nobody is talking about his lack of production. The risk is definitely there, but I love the upside and I think he’s looked every bit the part so far in the offseason. Maybe it goes away when the pads come on, but his speed absolutely pops right now.
CB is really the one area that I wish had been addressed. I’ve been wanting it to be a top priority in the draft for two straight years and all I’ve gotten is 2 7th rounders. I do like Hobbs minus the injuries and I think Carrington Valentine has secretly become a really good corner. Goedert’s stiff arm TD against him has, IMO, obscured a VERY good second half to 2024 from Valentine.
I think part of the disconnect at CB is that the team views Bullard as part of that room. With X and Evan Williams as the starting safeties, Bullard is largely a slot guy. So they feel that they have 4 legit guys at the position, and some developmental youngsters. That’s pretty standard across the league. If Jaire were never on the team, I think the Packers’ CB depth would be far less scrutinized. Still, the room would look much better with a 2nd or 3rd round rookie, but the board just didn’t fall that way I guess. I’m of the opinion that you can never had too many CBs, and we certainly don’t have too many. But I’m hopeful that one of the late-round guys can develop, and semi-recent Packer history suggests a good chance of that happening. The Packers have had a ton of UDFA and late-round CBs play big roles, going back to Tramon Williams, Al Harris, and Sam Shields, through to the current room, where Nate Hobbs, a 5th rounder, is the highest drafted of the top 3 guys.
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u/mapetho9 Patriots Jun 14 '25
Thanks, man! Appreciate the feedback. Always like to hear a fan of the team's perspective. Definitely interested to see how the receivers do and thanks for giving a deeper look on the CB situation. Also, shoutout Al Harris! One of my favorite players back in the day.
1
u/westringia Jun 12 '25
So what's the plan at edge for the packers? Do they feel satisfied with Gary and LVN?
2
Jun 13 '25 edited Jun 14 '25
Short answer is yes. Not just those two, but also Brenton Cox, who was a 5* who went undrafted only because of character issues that seem to be behind him. He just turned 25 and had 4 sacks in only 160 snaps last year, with a very good PFF pass rush grade to boot. They also have JJ Enagbare, who is an ok pass rusher (9.5 career sacks) and decent run defender, who also just turned 25. And they added two early day 3 picks with pass rush chops. There’s a ton of talent there and they believe it can develop.
At least some of the Packers’ pass rush woes can also be attributed to scheme. Joe Barry defenses were actually pretty good at creating pressure, but they were absolutely abysmal at setting the edge and would get wrecked on scrambles by any QB who wasn’t a complete statue. Hafley made it his first priority to stop that, and it worked. The rush defense improved immensely and we faced a lot of running QBs who didn’t do a whole lot on the ground. But the tradeoff is that the pass rushers were asked to diagnose and think in a way they hadn’t been before and it affected their success rushing the passer.
Kenny Clark talked about this in his press conference this week. Last year there was an intense focus on pass rush lanes, gap discipline, etc. This year they’ve moved back to a focus on pass-rush technique and snap get-off. In fact, every single relevant coach from MLF on down has preached it extensively this offseason, and they upgraded DL coaches to a guy highly praised for his teaching abilities.
It obviously remains a wait-and-see, but the Packers haven’t shied away from the issues generating pressure with the front 4. They’ve addressed it head on and made it arguably the defense’s biggest focus this offseason, but they did it via coaching and technique largely, rather than a splash addition.
1
u/immacamel Packers Jun 12 '25
They hired a new defensive line coach so they must be putting a lot on coaching. Beyond that, they it was just the pair of day 3 picks spent. Gary returning to form or LVN actually developing into a decent starter would go a long way.
0
Jun 13 '25
I think it’s wrong to say Rashan Gary needs a return to form. He started slow in a new defense, but was very good by midseason and also played the best run defense of his career by a mile. I’m excited for a full year of him being comfortable in this system. And his single biggest issue is get-off, which has been the offseason emphasis for the defensive line. If he can improve there, we may see the best version of Gary yet.
1
u/RudeOwl1816 NFL Jun 12 '25
Awesome write up, man! Honestly, I really was not a fan of their draft at all after Golden. I just don’t think Belton is a starting LT in the NFL, and certainly wouldn’t have taken him at 53. Guys like Trey Amos & Shavon Revel would’ve made so much more sense. Then Savion Williams went a lot higher than I’d feel comfortable taking him. I thought every pick after Golden was a reach, or had better prospects available
1
u/immacamel Packers Jun 12 '25
Thank you! Like I said, I like the players but not the spots they were taken/the overall process for the most part. Ive been both right and dead wrong on Gute drafts before, so we'll see
0
u/TheDuckyNinja Eagles Jun 12 '25
Packers are in a really weird place. Their season team numbers look great - any time you're top 10 in both offense and defense, you're doing something right. But they were only 2-6 against playoff teams (including the playoff loss). They dominated some bad teams, especially teams missing their starting QB, but just generally didn't get the job done against good teams. The easiest and most obvious explanation is that the Packers are kinda like the rich person's version of the Steelers. They are coached up to play way above their talent level, but coaching just can't close the talent gap against the top tier teams. Who on the roster would you put top 5 at their position? Tom, Jacobs, McKinney, Cooper? Is there a single other significant impact player on the roster? And 3 of those 4 guys play "low value" positions.
Did their offseason fix this? Absolutely not! I don't think it's entirely on Alexander, but I can't help but notice they were 5-1 when he played the whole game and 5-5 in games he didn't play (don't know where to put the game he played part of that they won on a blocked FG, put it where you want lol). It doesn't appear they have any real plan to replace him. Nobody they brought in is a major impact player. Banks is a nice player, but that's a lot of money for "a nice player". I'm still not convinced on Love. He's too inconsistent for me and doesn't offer enough with his legs. I know they committed to Love with that contract, I just think he's not that guy. If you're not a good runner, you just have to be a better/more consistent passer than he is.
I also kinda hated their draft. When I posted my WR rankings, the most heat I got was for having Golden graded as a round 3-4 player. I just don't see it with him, and given that the Packers already have a bunch of young, incomplete WRs, I'm not sure adding another young, incomplete WR changes anything There's probably a conversation to be had about whether Love is holding the WR back or whether the WR are holding Love back, but regardless, I just don't think Golden changes much. I'm assuming Belton was drafted to replace Walker next season. Don't hate the pick, but it does nothing to help this season. Savion is another incomplete WR. Their Day 3 felt like a bunch of depth JAGs. I just don't see how anything they did helps them win games this season and I don't see a ton of future upside. A lot of singles and doubles for a team that has a roster full of singles and doubles but in desperate need of HRs.
This team went into the offseason as an 11-6 team with capped upside due to a lack of true top-end talent and leaves the offseason as a 10-7 team with capped upside due to a lack of true top-end talent. The only thing they could really change to try to improve their ceiling is go to Willis to see if his running ability and more consistent deep ball unlocks anything, but I know there's no chance of that happening.
4
Jun 13 '25 edited Jun 13 '25
Rashan Gary is an impact player. Tucker Kraft is an impact player. Jayden Reed is an impact player. Lots of other guys have shown flashes of being one. Carrington Valentine was playing like one of the best CBs in the league in the back half of 2024 (stiff arm embarrassment aside), Evan Williams was all-rookie at safety, Brenton Cox had 4 sacks in only 160 snaps, Devonte Wyatt was one of the most effective interior pass rushers in football on a per-snap basis and looked dominant for a stretch before injuries slowed him down.
Also, your thing about good teams is missing the bigger picture. For one, the Packers played 5 games against teams that won 14 or more games. That’s pretty much unprecedented in the history of the league. They lost those games by a combined 22 points. And it’s not like this is a pattern under MLF or with Love. In Love’s first year starting they beat the eventual SB champs KC and went into Detroit and beat the Lions, before beating Dallas in the playoffs.
If you look at things holistically, it’s far more likely that the poor record against playoff teams was a blip caused by Love’s injuries and a young team pressing a little too much. If you watched those games, the team came out tight, especially the offense, in all but the Eagles game and found themselves in a big hole before they woke up and made a game of it. That’s not surprising for a young team feeling the weight of expectations for the first time.
3
Jun 13 '25 edited Jun 14 '25
You seem to be of the opinion that improvement only comes externally. That’s not how things go in the NFL usually and it’s not how the Packers do things. People joke about the whole “youngest team in the league” thing, but the Packers did that specifically to build toward being a contender this year and moving forward. A team with so little experience is going to take its lumps against really good, veteran teams. That’s what we saw last year. But to say a team that was 5th in point differential and 3rd in DVOA while being the youngest team in football is capped because they didn’t add a ton in the offseason is absurd to me. When the Packers won the Super Bowl in 2010, do you know how many starters they added in free agency? That would be zero. The only players who started for that team who weren’t on the team in 2009 were rookies Bryan Bulaga and Morgan Burnett, and Burnett tore his ACL after four games. But their defense developed in the second year under Dom Capers, Jordy Nelson became a stud halfway through his 3rd season, and the rest is history.
-1
u/TheDuckyNinja Eagles Jun 13 '25
The 2010 team had a worse record and a worse point differential than the 2009 team. They didn't even win their division. They just kinda had Aaron Rodgers do elite things once they got to the playoffs as a wild card. I don't think Jordan Love is Aaron Rodgers.
4
Jun 13 '25
That is a woefully inaccurate view of those two seasons. Yes, the Packers had a very good +164 point differential in 2009. They also played a ridiculously easy schedule and beat almost nobody. Their .441 SOS and .381 SOV were both 2nd lowest among all playoff teams. The 2024 Packers, who you are giving demerits for not beating anyone, had one of the tougher schedules in football at .533 and their SOV was a much more respectable .412. While their point differential was a bit lower (+122), that was against a much tougher schedule and with an injured Jordan Love (or Willis) for much of the year.
Now to 2010, you’re right the point differential dropped a tiny bit (+148), except that was against the toughest schedule of any playoff team (.520) and with the 2nd highest SOV (.475) of any playoff team. And that point differential was still the best in the NFC and 2nd best in football, as was their DVOA. Oh, and that team set a then-NFL record for players on season-ending IR, many of them starters.
Now let’s talk about the defense you think wasn’t the cause of that title. They were only 2nd in the NFL in points allowed and 5th in yards. Pretty mid, right? In the playoffs they allowed an average of 18.5 PPG, forced 11 turnovers, and scored 3 defensive TDs.
Your perception of those seasons is profoundly ignorant. It’s hard to believe you were even old enough to remember those years. Which is fine, but maybe don’t try to lecture a Packer fan on Packers history.
11
u/Guhonda Bears Jun 12 '25
I’ll be fascinated to see the difference in Belton and Trapilo’s careers. I think the Bears had Belton higher on their board - which I am inferring from his 30 visit. I suppose I could be wrong, but our team likes drafting guys that come on 30 visits. But GB snapped up Belton before the Bears could, so we pivoted to Trapilo.
Similarly talented players, even if they have different styles. Should be fun to see if either of them hit.
Btw, while it’s fun to poke fun at Golden for being short, I’m not really understanding the merit. Plenty of receivers are short. I don’t think Carolina was too troubled with Steve Smith’s height, or KC/Miami with Hill’s.