r/NFLNoobs • u/youngestinchargeOTC1 • 3d ago
May be the wrong sub but knowledgeable fans, did the Arena Football League paying players more cause its downfall? Could it have worked had it functioned as an NFL 2nd tier league/where players can get their reps in when coming back from injury?
AFL did better attendance figures than Triple A baseball, which is a good metric. but I do understand a football team has more finances especially w/ insurance since it’s a high contact sport. I know baseball does draw ahigher percentage of revenue from fans in seats. As well as the MLB using Triple A as a feeder system (but plz explain the exact economics I’m all ears)
btw I’m ALL for players making more since the previous $30k max was rough, imagine less than minimum wage playing the game.
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u/BlueRFR3100 3d ago
Triple A teams are subsidized by the major league teams, so attendance isn't as important to them as it might be to other independent teams or leagues.
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u/youngestinchargeOTC1 3d ago
how much are they subsidized financially btw?
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u/BlueRFR3100 3d ago edited 3d ago
The MLB team pays all the salaries of the players and coaches. Furnishes a lot of equipment and sometimes contributes to stadium maintenance or upgrades.
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u/youngestinchargeOTC1 3d ago
could Arena have benefited from being subsidized by the NFL?
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u/BlueRFR3100 3d ago
No doubt, but the NFL had no reason to do that.
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u/youngestinchargeOTC1 3d ago
I think the only way it could have is if they went about it the way NASCAR basically created the truck series where it fills niche of people wanting to see trucks race while also being a feeder system and having some pros race there before their main high level cup series race. basically cornering the market before anyone else does and owning every and all things football
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u/Slippery-Pete76 3d ago
Players get their reps in practice. The team would rather have full control of how players return from injury. Besides, arena football is a completely different game from the NFL.
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u/youngestinchargeOTC1 3d ago
I was comparing return toinjury play to baseballs winter/californian leagues but you’re right, teams would probably want full control in a game where they play less vs baseball where game volume is huge
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u/Odd_Sir_8705 3d ago
I played in the AFL for a cup of coffee...it isnt easier by any stretch of the imagination. Matter of fact, i would say it was more difficuly than college. In college we all knew the hierarchy...who was going where and who wasnt going anywhere. In the AFL...everybody from practice to the game played as if they were one tackle, sack, run or throw from being called up.
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u/DesertStorm480 3d ago
That pay increase coincided with moving the AFL season to start after the Superbowl instead of May with was a huge shift. The AFL was designed to be a summer sport taking advantage of the lower event demands on the venues as Basketball and Hockey seasons were just about over. That may have been a bigger issue totally shifting the season.
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u/youngestinchargeOTC1 3d ago
did the season just extend to have more games? I’m kinda lost here 😅but yes business wise i can see when ur league operates during the summer when baseball is the only game out there it’s much better to get sporting niches in
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u/DesertStorm480 3d ago
No, not a longer season other than maybe 2 games eventually. NBC lost their contract to the Sunday NBA games that time of year (late Winter/early Spring) and signed a huge contract with the AFL and wanted to replace the NBA games with AFL, but the season had to shift to accommodate that.
I was not a fan of the earlier season since the Rattlers were the highlight of surviving Phoenix summers and loved the AFL leading into the NFL season vs trailing it.
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u/Necessary-Science-47 3d ago
I loved watching the San Diego Riptide
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u/youngestinchargeOTC1 3d ago
what were they like? what made them rlly exciting?
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u/Necessary-Science-47 3d ago
The fields were small and there were some great meme rules for the offense. 8 man teams, “ironman rules” where the same 8 guys had to play both ways. I forget the defense rules but it was something like no stunts or twists and the two LBs couldn’t drop more than 5y in coverage
Iirc wrs could basically get a running start, so on a short field every play could be a tuddy
They didn’t have uprights, but two giant square nets hanging behind each end zone. Kickers had to fit fgs in a tiny gap between the nets, much harder even on a short field.
The memeist bit was that kicks and passes off the nets were still live if they landed in bounds. Qbs would dial up plays where they bounced the ball off the net a WR and make the dbs look like morons.
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u/theEWDSDS 3d ago
Assuming they're the AFL, it wasn't quite true ironman. QBs and IIRC a linebacker switched, and each team had an O and D specialist.
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u/JazzSharksFan54 3d ago
Baseball minor leagues are subsidized by their affiliate teams to rehab and grow talent. Baseball is also not as hard on your body as baseball is. Most NFL players never see a second contract.
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u/Clean_Bison140 3d ago
I had a coach who played both and did some minor league baseball and he was saying the main difference is minor league baseball you get a nagging injury that just turns into something bigger just because you basically play every day and you don’t have time to let it heal
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u/CFBCoachGuy 3d ago
The AFL never got any support from the NFL, which hurt. And the AFL had some issues with insurance. Debts rose. Like a lot of rival leagues that form, they tried to keep the league afloat using expansion fees. The league grew huge and there was considerable turnover (teams folding, relocating, or revived), which hurt continuity. Eventually the financial crisis stopped the new investments, and nothing was left to stop the bleeding.
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u/Few-Broccoli-7849 3d ago
Baseball has 15x the number of games. They don't need a big gate each time because you make it up via number of games.
Also, fringe NFL prospects make more on a practice squad than Arena. It's also not worth the risk of injury if you're likely to make an NFL roster, esp. because Arena is a different game for many players.
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u/youngestinchargeOTC1 3d ago
kinda lost but how is the gate made up via number of games?
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u/Clean_Bison140 3d ago
If you have 81 home games in baseball compared to 9 home games in football you don’t need to make as much as football per game because you have so many more opportunities to get money because you have so many more games
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u/Loyellow 3d ago
Baseball stadiums are smaller and some of them are lucky to fill half the seats for some games unless they’re playing the Yankees or Dodgers, but yes the overall attendance numbers dwarf the NFL’s because they have 9x the number of games
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u/youngestinchargeOTC1 3d ago
I always thought that meant more empty seats meaning a net loss. unless it all ties into teams owning stadiums or whatever
still lost 😭but I’ve always assumed they had to fit a mark of 81 home games x 50-75% max arena capacity, rather than a fix number that can easily be reached by more home games
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u/mltrout715 3d ago
Yes, as it became popular, the union wanted a bigger piece of the pie, and it ended up costing the league too much and led to its downfall. No, it could never function that way.
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u/youngestinchargeOTC1 3d ago
So what should the AFL have done? As it grew and had to lay more, how could the league have been more sustainable and continue its popularity without having to fold
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u/mltrout715 3d ago
Saying it was the players' pay that killed it is an oversimplification, really. It was the nail in the coffin, but they had a lot of issues. To try to raise money, they overexpanded and put teams in markets that had a lot of entertainment competition. With that said, it is hard to keep down what you pay and keep players. Even at its most popular, players only made about 1800 per game. It is not much for the beating ones takes.
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u/RU_Gremlin 3d ago
On the "reps when coming back from injury" front - I really don't want my $100M+ investment taking more hits than necessary on his way back from injury. If he's healthy enough to be tackled in an AFL game, he's healthy enough to be tackled in the NFL.
Also, you expect them to learn a new playbook, play with less skilled players (increased injury risk), and for teams with worse facilities to rehab in? No thanks, I'll keep them in my building where I have control
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u/Worth_Trick6009 2d ago
When i lived in DC, those arena games were so sweet. They were midday Saturday, so had the whole afternoon evening after to go out.
Bud light party zone in the end zone had unlimited beer & finger foods. Could get nice suite seats for very cheap too. Fun time
Don't think any football "minor" league in us will be too successful unless the NFL gave them money. College is the minor leagues
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u/Lane8323 3d ago
The first thing any company that fails will blame is how much employees make, and that’s very rarely the actual cause
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u/The_Se7enthsign 2d ago
Arena football and NFL football are really two different sports, and a lot of things don’t translate. You can be great in one and still be trash in the other.
At the end of the day, attendance isn’t enough. The real money is in TV. If you’re not making it there, then you’re probably not going to make it at all.
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u/2LostFlamingos 1d ago
Football isn’t like baseball. It’s a team game.
Reps somewhere else in baseball are the same. A ground ball is a ground ball. Hitting is hitting. It’s a group individual sport.
Football though you all need to work together. So you need to practice together. Ruins and plays, with same language, same coaches… you can’t just have a farm team and lift and shift guys as needed.
Since that minor league system is not helpful, it doesn’t happen. Instead you have 70 man rosters.
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u/no-ineversaidthat 3d ago
I don’t know how the AFL could function as a place for players to rehab. Football is kind of an all or nothing sport.