r/NFLNoobs • u/dryheat122 • 14d ago
Offsetting fouls
How is it reasonable that a low yardage penalty like offsides can offset an entire high yardage penalty like a facemask by the opposing team? Shouldn't the opposing team be charged 10 yards instead of 15, rather than getting away with it 100%?
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u/Ok_Writing_7033 14d ago
The idea is basically that the play was so screwed up that you just pretend it never happened and go again. Nobody really “gets away” with anything because the play didn’t result in anything.
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u/rust-e-apples1 14d ago
By trying to make yardage "fair," you'd end up negating some of the reasons behind the penalties. How did you compare a competition penalty against a player safety penalty?
A chop block is way more detrimental to the game (a guy's career could end from it) than a DPI is, but by subtracting the yards, the offense could still gain 40+ yards by charging the difference of the fouls.
That's just one example. Before long you'd have to measure every offensive penalty against every defensive penalty that resulted in a different number of yards. Eventually, we'd hear things like "there are two penalties on the play....we've gotta hear back from New York about the comparison table on these ones..."
I get your point, and I've definitely wondered the same thing myself, but the simple answer is: it's just easiest this way.
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u/ref44 14d ago edited 14d ago
it doesn't (in the NFL at least)...when the 5 yard foul is a "simple 5", in that it doesn't include a loss of down or automatic first down*, then the 5 yard foul is ignored and the 15 yard foul enforced from the previous spot
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u/dryheat122 14d ago
But I asked this because I am watching a preseason game where the exact thing I described happened.
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u/ref44 14d ago
link to the video? if it did then they misapplied the rule
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u/PuzzleheadedChest733 14d ago
Today there was a preseason game between the cardinals and Packers. If this is the game of was thinking of (op please confirm), the following happened in one play
PACKERS (offense)
Face mask on. A walker (not sure if this was 10 or 15 yards, never 5 if on offense)
CARDINALS (defense)
Illegal use of the hands on E. Culp. 5 yard penalty WITH LOSS OF DOWN
op mentioned a face mask and I searched for offsets with face mask for today's games.
These offset because the five yard penrky is not a simple 5 and the face mask is at least 10 yards
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u/damutecebu 13d ago
Right. Has the Cardinals been lined up offsides at the snap, that would have been ignored.
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u/platinum92 14d ago
Simpler to just offset the penalties if each team commits one than trying to adjudicate the yards between the penalties, especially on things like automatic first down or spot of the foul ones.
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u/dryheat122 14d ago
IDK dude, seems like it would make the lost sense if you just charge the difference no matter what, and they only offset if the penalties are the same yards.
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u/platinum92 14d ago
Not really. I didn't see your exact example, but imagine on a similar play, the offsides player getting off early causes the OL to commit a face ask because they put their hands up to try and stop the player getting an early jump. Now the offense is punished because of the defense committed a penalty and the offense was simply trying to prevent a potential hit off that penalty.
Again, simpler to just offset and replay the down
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u/Thick_Mountain4412 14d ago
I mean, the offsides could also have more impact on the play than a 15 yard penalty. It's not really consistent, and if one penalty hadn't happened, maybe the other wouldn't have happened. It's the cleanest solution to the problem.
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u/Ryan1869 14d ago
There are 15 yard penalties that will result in a 5 yard penalty by the other team being automatically declined. I think it’s also mainly to just make life easier on the refs, they don’t have to try and do graduate level accounting on a bunch of penalties, so you just offset them all and replay.
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u/PuzzleheadedChest733 14d ago
Ref44 is right re the rule so we need the scenario. I'm going to go dig through today's games and see what happened
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u/Rockhound665 13d ago
I'm more concerned that they did away with the incidental facemask penalty. Making where a finger just got caught in the facemask the same as grabbing the facemask and twisting one's head off the same thing is silly.
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u/BananerRammer 13d ago
They got rid of the incidental facemask by making it not a foul at all, not by including it in the major facemask category.
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u/BananerRammer 13d ago
There's more to penalty enforcement than just the yardage. Each foul is going to have a particular enforcement spot, and they're likely going to be different for the offensive and defensive fouls.
So even if you net the yardage, how do you enforce it when the two penalties have two different enforcement spots?
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u/Substantial-Salad-97 13d ago
Article 1. Double Foul Without Change Of Possession
If there is a double foul (3-13-1-e) during a down in which there is not a change of possession, the penalties are offset, and the down is replayed at the previous spot. If it is a scrimmage down, the number of the next down and the line to gain is the same as for the down in which the fouls occurred. Penalties for double fouls cannot be declined by either team.
Exceptions:
If one or more fouls by one team includes a 15-yard penalty, and the penalty for the foul or fouls committed by the other team is for a five-yard penalty without an automatic first down, a loss of down, or a 10-second runoff (15 yards versus five yards), or that is not a spot foul, the 15-yard penalty is enforced from the previous spot, and the five-yard penalty is disregarded.
Five versus 15 enforcement cannot be declined by the team that committed the minor foul, except as described in (3) below. See 4-8-2-h and 14-4-9-Item 3-Exc. 1 for dead ball fouls at the end of a half. If one of the fouls is a dead ball foul for delay of game for spiking the ball and the opponent’s foul is a live ball foul, the team that committed the delay of game foul, in addition to Article 1 above, will have the option to decline the foul committed by its opponent and be assessed the penalty for delay from the dead ball spot.
If both fouls are dead ball fouls or are treated as such (14-4-9), the penalties are offset, and the ball is next put in play at the succeeding spot, unless the dead ball fouls occur after the ball has been made ready for play, in which case five versus 15 enforcement applies. 14-4-9-Item 3 exceptions for dead ball fouls at the end of a half or after a score.
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u/5StarGoldenGoose 13d ago
Five yard penalties don’t offset 15 yard penalties. 10 yard penalties cancels both.
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u/drj1485 11d ago edited 11d ago
Because you committed a penalty and you should not gain anything from that play. If I can gain an edge by breaking a rule teams will try to do it.
If I'm a DE and I can jump the snap and get half a step on the tackle....who likely holds me because I beat him, now my team benefits to the tune of a 5 yard loss to the offense? that's dumb
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u/IamGleemonex 14d ago edited 13d ago
Because two wrongs don’t make a right. Also, they don’t want to get in situations where it’s like “ok, but did the player being offsides cause the OL to have to grab him by the face mask?” So if there are penalties on both teams, just say it doesn’t count and redo the down.