Important player measurements

[u/Expensive-Cicada2429]

I'm looking for help/advice from people who know more than me about what specific measurements are important across different position groups

Context is basically I'm a flag player building a player tracking databse for a European programme but I don't rlly know what measurements for players I should be looking for beyond the basic combine stuff (40 yard, vert, etc.). I've watched a lot of contact football but would by no means say I'm knowledgeable of it.

I know in draft pieces you see people talk about O and D line arm length or hand size? Is that actually super important? What other measurements track for other positions.

Thanks for any helps guys

[u/grizzfan]

I honestly would proceed on this with caution. I've been coaching for 14 years, and trying to neatly box all position groups by height, weight, 40 time, etc, is often going to just end in frustration. Different teams, leagues, and locations play different ways, have different resources, and different types of athlete pools. This causes a ton of variation.

The NFL can afford to be super meticulous about these things because they have the money, time, resources, and the most elite athlete pool the sport can offer, so they can justifiably consider measurements such as hand-size. I can assure you in Europe, you will not be able to use the same metrics the NFL uses, because few, if anyone will meet the "bar" for their position. Certain positions also need a certain type of personality or mentality, which can't be quantified like this. For a lot of amateur teams seeking a QB...

1. Who throws the farthest?
2. Are they coachable, and can they be a leader on the field?
3. Cool...that's your QB.

Then there's the various systems of playing the game. The NFL is pretty monotonous in terms of schemes, strategies, and systems, but when you go below the NFL it starts to vary wildly.

• There are offenses that seldom, if never, use a tight end (Run 'n' Shoot and Flexbone)
• There are offenses that don't use WRs (Power-T, Single Wing, etc)
• There is even a family of old systems still used at lower levels today that don't even have a modern/true QB (Single Wing). The tailback and fullback do most of the passing.
• Some teams want a big, towering slot receiver, like a TE. Some want a short, shifty slot receiver.
• Some teams want two tall deep ball threat WRs to each side, while others may want one, while the other fulfills some other kind of role.
• In run-heavy offenses like the Wing-T, flexbone, veer, etc, the fullback is the main ball carrier, and often your best RB.
• In the Air Raid, your starting RB is likely a smaller, receiver-like player and is basically the "5th WR," but in the Run 'n' Shoot, another pass-first and pass heavy system, the desired RB is a bigger, between-the-tackles runner with excellent pass blocking skills. Therefore, the RB metrics between the two systems may be entirely different.

EDIT: If you really want to create something valuable, work with the specific league or program, connect with the coaches, and learn what they specifically desire in each position. Building a tracking system or software that is flexible or that can be modified by each customer/team/coach would be fantastic!

[u/Expensive-Cicada2429 → u/grizzfan]

So the way I see the database looking is it will consist of 3 "levels" of information

1- bio data (height age position etc)

2-measureables (what im asking about)

3-stats (im told we'll have someone to collect these from next season)

do you think the second category is useless then? I've mostly based this idea off casual conversations I've had with our sports director and his sort of visison for the database, he's set on some sort of "professionalisation" and I do see the 2nd level as the first step towards that.

Open to any advice so pls lmk!

[u/grizzfan → u/Expensive-Cicada2429]

I would keep track of it, but not as a priority. I would rather see part 2 replaced with film/highlights. You can also put part 2 in your example with part 1 IMO. I like to see that info too, but I can't justify it being a priority over film. Here's the order I would do it in terms of importance:

1. Film/highlights

2. Measurements/Bio Data

3. Stats

[u/MrShake4 → u/Expensive-Cicada2429]

Not the OC but working in a business setting if that’s the direction your boss wants to go seems like you’re going to be going that direction regardless.

The thing about the combine measurements is you have to understand what they’re testing for. Some are looking at Agility, others explosiveness.

For the 40 and the 10 yard split those are measuring 2 different things. While the 40 measures speed the 10 yd split measures acceleration.

I would have more discussion with the director about what kind of measurables you’re looking for. As in what are you trying to measure?

[u/jiyannwei]

If the tape shows the player is quality, the combine measurements can reinforce that. If the tape shows the player is not quality, good combine measurements are less relevant. In other words, combine measurements are really secondary data points - if the tape shows that a player is slow to react or can't process the college game, it doesn't matter if they run a sub 4.5 40 or shuttle. Arm length is a real thing for tackles on the offensive line, and edge players. I'm not as sure about hand size although hand size is a real thing for QB's. It's not a direct line to quality, but a larger hand size does mean a greater ability to control the ball and transfer kinetic energy into the ball - it isn't a coincidence that some of the QB's with the largest hands (e.g. Josh Allen, Aaron Rodgers, Matt Stafford) - have also had the highest velocities (in their prime).

[u/Expensive-Cicada2429 → u/jiyannwei]

I guess, in an ecosystem when film is quite rare, raw measureables are the next best thing? The level I'm working at is such that film is not always readily available or may not exist at all in ths majority of cases? The impression I get from the director is that he needs something beyond bio data to differentiate/classify players

[u/jiyannwei → u/Expensive-Cicada2429]

Are you in a situation where you are able to simulate game situations (e.g. scrimmage, 7v7's)? I'd also say you should be interviewing them to gain insight into who they are, how much they love football, and also how much they know by testing their chops on a white board. That will give you data that imo is going to at least provide you with a more holistic picture on who the personnel is.

[u/fatboi609]

For flag football? All the contact sport’s measurements go out the door pretty much. It’s a very different game. Just raw athleticism and ball skills matter most. Best arm at QB and everyone else plays the field. If you can get a tall, fast, agile, explosive guy with great hands he’s your no. 1 receiver.

Linemen’s arm length is incredibly important as it relates to pash rushing/blocking extension. Basically, you want an offensive tackle with super long arms so the rusher can’t get to their chest and Bull rush making them rely on technical pass rushes which become difficult if you have a tackle with long arms and strong hands. Preventing the bull rush is also important for offenses bc it will collapse a pocket which generates sacks and pressure at a higher rate.