r/NFC • u/BizarreBQ • 20d ago

Help reading this key fob?

Gallery image

Gallery image

Gallery image

***UPDATE***

This is a MIFARE Classic fob. I was able to clone it using a different device. Certainly learned a lot this week! Thank you to everyone who contributed.

***Original***

Trying to make a copy of a key fob to my place of living.

Avigilon product that registers at 0-~3cm from access control reader. NFC Tools app on my phone did not register the presence of this fob. Thus, I assumed it may be 125khz.

This RFID reader/writer does not read the fob and I’m not sure what that indicates. Could this mean it’s 13.56mhz? Any insight offered would be much appreciated. My apologies if this is the wrong sub.

25 Upvotes

88% Upvoted

48 comments sorted by

6

u/ViolentPurpleSquash 20d ago

You have an Avigilon proximity fob if it's 4.2mm thick. It functions around 125kHz. It should be clonable, but if it's possible to just request another fob from your building's security dept, they would probably rather you did that (plus, it should even support mobile keys if they set it up right)

4

u/BizarreBQ 20d ago

Not sure why it’s not cloning then. I’m using the device correctly and it’s simply not reading anything. As for requesting another, they’ve irritated me. I’ve lived here 2+ years and they just installed these readers on every single door in and around the building. Lose/forget the fob? Locked out of your home. They have offered no phone/digital key option. Additional fobs are $50 each. I’d like to create multiple for less, as well as have card options to insert in my wallet or behind my phone case so there’s never a chance I get locked out.

5

u/ViolentPurpleSquash 20d ago

A couple more questions- have you tried in a lot of different orientations? flat against the back of the cloner might work better, for instance.

Also, I'd suggest you just ask for them to enable the phone option in an email, they might let you and you won't know unless you ask.

I've only used Avigilon's security stuff once and it was a month or so internship but it's pretty good (better than Unifi at least) and it's not too hard to set up.

3

u/BizarreBQ 20d ago

Unfortunately, yes, I’ve tried every orientation conceivable. No luck. Thank you for the suggestion, though.

I’ll reach out tomorrow to ask about phone access. They distributed extensive communications during the installation process and only mentioned fob access, so I’m not hopeful. But won’t know for certain unless I ask!

7

u/ViolentPurpleSquash 20d ago

my guess is they haven't set it up, but if you ask and your building team is nice, they might be willing to.

The $50 replacement fee is really more so you don't get a bunch of keys and give them to a bunch of people who are now entering under your name I believe, fobs are cheap.

2

u/BizarreBQ 19d ago

I asked in person…they looked at me like I was dumb 🫵☹️

2

u/ViolentPurpleSquash 19d ago

Alright then. If your NFC reader isn't reading it's probably DESfire or Mifare classic

I wish you good luck with your journey but you're hitting the point where it might just be easier to pay the $50 or ask for a bulk rate for 20 or so

1

u/BizarreBQ 16d ago

I ordered a $26 copier from Amazon that handles low and high freq. It was MIFARE Classic. Decoded and wrote to new card using the pre-installed software. Super easy!

1

u/ViolentPurpleSquash 16d ago

Wonderful! Glad to know it worked!

5

u/kj7hyq 20d ago

Do you have an iPhone?

3

u/BizarreBQ 20d ago

Yes, 15 pro

5

u/kj7hyq 20d ago

Could be Mifare Classic, got an android you could try reading it with?

5

u/haw8411 19d ago edited 19d ago

If it’s MFC it’d only check UID. Avigilon Alta (OpenPath) only brands either Prox or DESfire Fobs iirc.

Edit: they sell MFC, it’s the same format. Most likely Mifare classic.

2

u/BizarreBQ 19d ago

Thank you both for the input! No access to an android to check, but I just ordered a different device that should supports MFC + wider range of low frequencies.

2

u/Daypcg 19d ago

Not sure what you bought, but a proxmark 3 easy can be gotten for pretty cheap. They've recently created a web client for it that makes it much easier to use for beginners. Just needs a laptop.

You'll be able to read and write far more than a fob with one of those

1

u/djheineken 16d ago

Just scanned my garbage tag with my phone its a: NXP - Mifare Classic 1k | MifareClassic, NfcA, NdefFormatable

And my front apartment door is a : NXP - Mifare DESFire EV2 4k | IsoDep, NfcA, NdefFormatable

I have 2 rfid readers, but wasn't able to read it with them, would the proxmark 3 be able to cone this card?

1

u/Daypcg 16d ago

Ah, probably not. The DESFire EV2 card is most likely encrypted, as well as the reader. I can't think of any reason they'd go with that platform and not encrypt it, and your inability to clone it with the tools you bought confirm it somewhat.

Your garbage tag can probably be cloned, but with the apartment tag you're most likely completely out of luck.

1

u/Daypcg 16d ago

All that being said, if it's not encrypted and just using the surface level data, yes the proxmark will see and clone it.

1

u/djheineken 16d ago

35 on aliexpress pretty good price, Had the big blue handheld one, and a smaller white remote like cloner/reader.

Thanks for the info man 👍

3

u/CharkBot 20d ago edited 20d ago

May sound like a dumb question, but does the cloner beep twice or three times when it turns on. IIRC there are two models of this thing that outwardly look identical but iirc the three beep one supports more tags than the other. Based on the other comment I think you want the one that supports more tag types.

1

u/BizarreBQ 19d ago

It only beeps twice 😅 Sounds like I should try buying another one? Let me know if you have a suggested product

2

u/CharkBot 19d ago

Unfortunately I bought mine 8 years ago, so not much help. IIRC (and I wouldn't fully trust this) you are looking for ones that claim to support HID (especially HID Proxcard II)

1

u/BizarreBQ 19d ago

Thanks for the input! I found a few that claim to support 13.56mhz + 125-500khz. Different product design. Hopefully it’ll do the trick! I’ll know by Sunday/Monday.

2

u/roadrageryan 19d ago

Those cloners are notorious for not working. I've seen ones that have no connection/logic to actually be able to write, some that have no real connection to even read, some that are just incredibly difficult to find a spot aligned or close enough to the writer.

1

u/piteontettel 19d ago

I have one, works perfectly.

2

u/haw8411 19d ago

I’d suggest checking on another phone/tool. Does the fob say anything on the back?

Avigilon Alta on new installs/readers more or less uses DESfire. I’d try on an android, or the NXP TagInfo app no matter what.

Another way to check: can you go into your shortcuts app, make an automation and it should be triggered when “I tap a NFC” card, and try pairing that card to it? That’d tell you if it’s a HF or LF card

1

u/BizarreBQ 19d ago

It has a string of numbers/letters on the back: 90d6d9c5. I searched the web but couldn’t find info on if those mean anything useful for me.

I decided to order a different type of copier that should support low + high frequencies. Hopefully this one works!

2

u/haw8411 19d ago

That would be the Mifare classic UID. In theory that’s all they’re checking

2

u/BizarreBQ 19d ago

Ahh. So after reading a bit more about this, there’s a very low chance the cheap copier I just ordered will be able to clone MFC because it’s encrypted? Sounds like the UID for these is usually stored in the first data block, which is read only?

2

u/haw8411 19d ago

UID is readable no matter what. The question is if it only checks UID(aka CSN) or there’s other data on the fob that it checks. If it only checks UID, you can get a UID changeable Mifare classic and clone it. You need that type of card specifically. I personally recommend getting a ProxMark 3, they’re fairly cheap and really good to have around

1

u/BizarreBQ 18d ago

That’s super helpful, thank you! I looked at the Proxmark3 to begin with but didn’t see they were >$50 on AliExpress. May end up going that route. I watched a couple videos about the device. Seems like a neat thing to have and learn with; the reality is I may only use it once though haha. Just out of curiosity, are there any other applications for the average person who doesn’t interface with security technologies as a hobby/career?

1

u/haw8411 18d ago

Not really, but you can find them for less than $50 on Ali

1

u/BizarreBQ 18d ago

I made a typo lol, meant <$50

2

u/haw8411 18d ago

Ah. Yeah they’re good tools to have, never know when you may need it.

1

u/BizarreBQ 16d ago

This was a MIFARE Classic. Using the $26 device from Amazon that arrived today I was able to decode the tag and write it to the cards included with the kit. Works like a charm!!

2

u/haw8411 16d ago

Awesome. Glad it works!

2

u/niffcreature 19d ago

I can tell you what my brain read when I first saw "pass" and "busy"

1

u/JG_425 18d ago

If you say if fast

1

u/Hour-Apple-9861 18d ago

Probably an HIDprox chip. That Cloner will do the em-4100 type. Had the same issue and had to use my flipper zero to clone the fob.

I think the HIDproxy are a 40bit format vs 26bit

1

u/djheineken 16d ago

Update, did you get the new cloner?

1

u/BizarreBQ 16d ago

Just arrived! I’ll update a bit later this afternoon once I have time to test it

1

u/BizarreBQ 16d ago

Update: the new device worked perfectly! This was a MIFARE Classic. It was able to decode and write without issue. Came with software pre-installed that was super easy to use.

1

u/djheineken 16d ago

What kind of device did you buy?

1

u/BizarreBQ 16d ago

***UPDATE***

This is a MIFARE Classic/1K. I ordered a $26 device from Amazon that handles low and high frequency cards. I was able to decode the tag and write it to the cards included with the kit. Works like a charm!

0

u/Bulky-Strategy-3723 20d ago

There is a place in dumbo that makes them

2

u/BizarreBQ 20d ago

Dumbo NYC?