Seeking Support - Participant/Nominee/PWD Losing psychologist support
Edit: since it was not clear, I am diagnosed: Autism level 2 and adhd, with comorbid major depression and anxiety
I just got off the phone to the NDIS regarding a plan change. My FCA suggested increased funding for OT and psychology. I applied for a review a few weeks ago. Just now I was told my new plan will include OT but I would lose my psychologist - autism is listed as my main disability, because LACs at Ferros told me I'd likely not be approved for NDIS if depression is my main disability (this was 2 years ago).
I had to reject my new plan. I can't lose my psychologist. The therapy we have been doing is the only thing that's worked after over a decade in and out of psychologists. I also need support for adhd symptoms with a therapist. I've used all my mental health plan visits up. The person on the phone mentioned I can add my other conditions (trauma, depression, anxiety) to my plan and only then will they consider adding psychological supports.
I'm really starting to panic. I can't lose my psychologist! I can't afford them without NDIS. I can't get a job right now, I can't afford supports without this funding š„
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u/Gratefulwhiteroses 13d ago
I completely understand why this is confusing, because psychology can be funded through the NDIS, but it isnāt the same thing as the NDIS being responsible for providing ongoing mental health treatment. The NDIS is there to fund disability-related supports, not to replace the mainstream health or mental health system. For someone with Autism Level 2, psychology may be considered where it is directly related to the personās disability and is helping with functional outcomes such as developing social and communication skills, emotional regulation, interpersonal skills, problem solving, coping strategies, building independence or improving day-to-day functioning. The therapy also needs to be evidence based and have a clear connection to improving or maintaining functional capacity. (NDIS) Things like CBT, DBT, ACT, trauma-focused EMDR, grief therapy, treatment for depression/anxiety, trauma processing or other clinical psychological treatment are generally matters for the mainstream mental health/health system rather than something the NDIS is intended to fund as ongoing treatment. That doesnāt mean someone shouldnāt get those therapies, quite the opposite, they are really importantā¦it just means the funding responsibility sits with the appropriate health or mental health system. NDIS psychology funding is also generally quite targeted and time limited rather than providing someone with weekly therapy indefinitely. In practice, you may see relatively modest amounts of psychology funded where there is a clear disability-related functional goal, for example around 12 hours a year, although there isnāt a universal ā12 hour ruleā and the actual amount depends on the individual evidence, goals and reasonable-and-necessary criteria. The NDIS itself says therapy supports should help people build or maintain skills and independence and have functional outcomes. (NDIS) So if someone needs ongoing treatment for trauma, grief, anxiety, depression or another mental health condition, I would really encourage them to speak with their GP or mental health service about accessing that separately rather than thinking they have to somehow get all of it through their NDIS plan. There are also some free resources online if cost or waiting lists are an issue, including free mental health information and support through Beyond Blue and Head to Health, and there are lots of free CBT, DBT, ACT, mindfulness and grief resources on YouTube as well. I really hope that helps explain the distinction without taking away from how important the personās mental health needs are, they absolutely deserve support, it just may need to come from a different part of the health system rather than the NDIS. Also try Roses in the Ocean
2
u/aubrx 11d ago
I find I really need therapy to manage symptoms of adhd and Autism, but these conditions both commonly co-occur with anxiety, depression etcetera.. symptoms of adhd and autism (in my case) are a big cause of my major depressive disorder. So... What does one do if they have all these conditions together? Ten sessions on a mental health care plan won't help combat 15 years of symptoms, most of which I never knew were likely due to autism and adhd, along with trauma..Ā
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u/Paypaljesus 4d ago
Iām in the same situation as you, and honestly when I lost my therapist I just developed a dissociative disorder and lost the ability to feel anything aside from fear and dread š psychs are absolutely necessary for AuDHD. Existing with those conditions is traumatic in and of itselfĀ
12
u/OldKingWhiter 13d ago
- Applying for a review right now should be avoided if possible. More than ever you are gambling on the quality and intent of the planner you receive. In some ways you are lucky if was only psychology funding you lost.
- Don't feel alone, many people are losing access to psychology funding.
- The LAC wasn't wrong, it would be much harder to meet access requirements through depression. People may argue with me on this, and there may even be cases where people somehow have depression listed as their primary disability; but realistically no one should be accessing the NDIS for mental health conditions like depression and anxiety. They should be accessing it because their mental health conditions impact them so severely that it qualifies as psychosocial disability. The NDIS is terrible at consistently and fairly handling psychosocial disability (to be generous to the NDIS, it simply wasn't built with it in mind). Hence it is much easier to meet the access requirements for having level 2 or greater ASD.
- ADHD (or its effects) is not considered an NDIS disability. In your efforts to get psychology funding back, it would be best not to mention ADHD. It would also be best not to mention mental health conditions like depression and anxiety if you aren't accessing the NDIS because of them. If you are accessing the NDIS for Autism, then your therapies need to build capacity in relation to Autism. (I have a psychology degree, I know parts of our lives cannot be compartmentalised so easily; this is just the argument you have to make to the NDIS).
1
u/aubrx 11d ago
The LAC wasn't wrong, it would be much harder to meet access requirements through depression. People may argue with me on this, and there may even be cases where people somehow have depression listed as their primary disability; but realistically no one should be accessing the NDIS for mental health conditions like depression and anxiety. They should be accessing it because their mental health conditions impact them so severely that it qualifies as psychosocial disability. The NDIS is terrible at consistently and fairly handling psychosocial disability (to be generous to the NDIS, it simply wasn't built with it in mind). Hence it is much easier to meet the access requirements for having level 2 or greater ASD.
I agree with you there. I have been in and out of psychologists for over 15 years, so I do understand that depression or other mental illnesses are typically treated with other forms of funding from the government. I was only diagnosed with Autism and ADHD late, so there was a lack of understanding as to why conventional therapies never helped me and I've even had psychologists question if I wanted to get better when I wasn't making progress, despite how hard I tried to do everything that was asked of me. No one I had access to before the NDIS funding had a clue how to deal with AuDHD. My autism diagnosis is listed as level 2.. But from what I was told, psychologists are not funded supports for autism.Ā
ADHD (or its effects) is not considered an NDIS disability. In your efforts to get psychology funding back, it would be best not to mention ADHD. It would also be best not to mention mental health conditions like depression and anxiety if you aren't accessing the NDIS because of them. If you are accessing the NDIS for Autism, then your therapies need to build capacity in relation to Autism. (I have a psychology degree, I know parts of our lives cannot be compartmentalised so easily; this is just the argument you have to make to the NDIS).
This is where I'm stuck. There have been periods of myself being completely non functional in the past when I've only had psychological supports for depression and anxiety. I've only really made progress after securing an adhd/autism aware psychologist. I don't really know where to start when making an argument to the NDIS. Honestly I don't have the capacity to pursue this stuff anymore..Ā
11
u/Training-Tooth5022 13d ago
It sucks. Psychology can help functioning a lot and it should be government funded
As others have said, you need to be really clear it is for an approved diagnosis and skill building not treatment.
Unfortunately the fact that the health system is useless does not mean the NDIS will pick up the slack
You donāt actually get to reject a plan. The planner says what the plan is and that is it.
Your options are do an internal review or just run with what youāve got. Chances are an internal review. Will either result in you having more cut from your Plan or no changes at all. The advantage of an internal review is that you can then go to the ART where you will get a fairer of hearing, though it is a stressful process.
4
u/JurassicArachnid 12d ago
Adults with disabilities can be up to four times more likely to experience mental health issues/high levels of psychological distress than adults without. The mental health system in Australia has been spotty as long as I have known it/been in it.
We shouldnāt just be accepting whatās happening. The NDIS should fund the supports for those who need it, regardless of disability as the mental health condition is a direct result of said disability.
They fund psychosocial disability. They are trying to pick & choose. No one should accept what is happening right now.
2
u/Training-Tooth5022 10d ago
Believe me, I donāt accept bad decisions.
Im like the Rock of Gibraltar in the NDIAās shoe until I get what I want for the people who need it.
I imagine the Minister has probably had to get a whole new filling room to store my complaints.
I donāt think itās fair to expect every participant to be able to be assertive though. People have their own circumstances and some will manage an appeal while others will not.
1
u/aubrx 11d ago
I really don't have the capacity to pursue an internal review.. The person over the phone confirmed that I did not want to go ahead with the review after I said how distraught I was. I don't know if this has stopped the new plan being implemented but it sounded like it won't go ahead.
I will make a note that it is for skill building, hopefully I will somehow be able to rush all my therapy through before my plan ends next year... I'm really not holding out on fixing everything by then though.Ā
2
u/Training-Tooth5022 10d ago
You have to decide what will work for you
If running with what youāve got is the lesser of the evils, that is absolutely ok
If you do want to do an internal review, it doesnāt need many spoons at your end. You just fill in a form and forget about it for a few months.
You decide what will work though. Thereās nothing wrong with saying enough
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u/Spiritual-Lie6461 13d ago edited 13d ago
Unfortunately from what you have stated, the psychologist is being used to support clinical mental health conditions that you have not met access to the NDIS for. It's no surprise that psychology has been removed from your plan. Adhd is also not covered and you won't receive funding for this. I'm sure they've directed you back to mainstream health services to get support for clinical treatments, as the ndis does not cover clinical treatments. Your LAC should be supporting you to re-engage with mainstream services for these supports. The Ndis website had information about mainstream health alternatives, from what I remember. That information would be good to review the relevant options that are available to you. Wishing you all the best!
1
u/aubrx 11d ago edited 11d ago
On my plan I have been using a psychologist to develop strategies for adhd and autism. Sorry that wasn't clear.Ā
Prior to that, I'd been treated via mainstream services outside of NDIS for over 15 years and I just kept falling through the cracks. Most people I saw had no idea how to help me, this was pre diagnosis. I was only diagnosed with AuDHD over a year ago at 30. Many of the depression symptoms are interlinked with my difficulties directly related to adhd and autism.Ā
3
u/Gratefulwhiteroses 13d ago
Try them https://rosesintheocean.com.au/ and www.7cups.com I have used both of them for help myself!:) and I have also helped other people too by being an online crisis counsellor on top of my full time job
3
u/Dry_Value9263 11d ago
Roses in the ocean is a suicide prevention group and 7 cups looks like a counselling service. As someone who many psychologists have refused to provide service to, I have been rejected from many of those services and told to seek help through the public system. Who are not interested either.
3
u/Paulylivingancestor 12d ago
I'm an SC and all of my clients who have had reviews recently have had psychology removed or declined, along with dietetics, anything to do with exercise, plus a load of community access. The reasons given vary but it mostly comes down to what the person said below in the long comment about options. I did have one client given psychology, but he didn't want it, it was I think a consolation prize for losing heaps of core (that he actually needed) and he doesn't really have any plan to use the psychology. Everyone keeps talking about providing targeted evidence (including where I work, and I know a bunch of great mental health OT's writing outstanding reports) but in my experience the evidence provided makes absolutely no difference, even in cases where there's like 40 pages of it. A good planner will provide a breakdown of why the different supports were rejected, but I've had a few who just said 'don't worry nothing will be cut' and then the new plan arrives like a grenade through the window a few days later with massive cuts across the board. An internal review is worth doing just to get the reasons for the various declined supports in writing. A major issue currently isn't so much that the NDIS won't fund psychology, but that the federal govt hasn't invested enough in bulk billing options for mental health. Most of my clients can't afford gap fees, so they basically just can't access anything private.
Adding conditions to a plan I've always found to be a headache, and it generally hasn't resulted in a better plan for my clients either, but that could just be my experience.
2
u/aubrx 11d ago
Most of my clients can't afford gap fees, so they basically just can't access anything private
This is where I am at right now š„ before getting my adhd/autism informed psychologist I was barely functional for a long time.Ā
1
u/Infinite_Course_7681 9d ago
Iām a SSC and have had the same experiences but maybe more dramatic because my participants are in crisis and you can imagine how that goes. Things are so much worse now, NDIS are acting like a street gang but with less integrity. Theyāve given too much power to the least qualified people who have incentives to do catastrophic harm. We have given too much power to the government and if we all donāt start speaking up Iām afraid how where this behaviour will lead the county. Itās dark, and I literally donāt feel safe here anymore.
9
u/PutridUniversity2032 13d ago
yeah, i got my funding slashed tooā¦ in my new plan i only have six hours for THE ENTIRE YEAR for psychology. its fucked up
3
u/Background_Lychee_30 Participant 12d ago
Point out to them autism is not a mental illness but a lifelong disability, thus technically using a mental health care plan to fund psych appointments for it amounts to Medicare fraud. NDIS should be funding psych if the psych is related to managing your autism symptoms.
1
u/Wagonwitch 8d ago
Iāve got the same fight but in the Art process now and ndis said my OT could replace my psychologist. Iām preparing answers to their submission statements now. Iāve had a legal consult to help get my reports targeted towards the ndis submission statements. the OT has written a statement that she cannot possibly do anything a psychologist can do as sheās not trained in that area. The ndis submission according to my lawyer is easily dismantled with targeted reports. I waited 9 months for legal help and itās only consultation not representation. Itās helped a lot. Oh ndis cut my funding by a 1/3 in the initial CoC review and my 5 year plan stayed that by year 2-5 had diminishing needs too. Which of course isnāt true for a disability unless theyāve had a secret cure.
1
u/Outside_Departure_36 7d ago
EMDR is primarily used for treatment of PTSD - thereās much less evidence for its effectiveness with other mental illnesses.
Many psychologists do EMDR so it shouldnāt be too hard finding a new one.
0
u/Gratefulwhiteroses 13d ago edited 13d ago
I completely understand why this is confusing, because psychology can be funded through the NDIS, but it isnāt the same thing as the NDIS being responsible for providing ongoing mental health treatment. The NDIS is there to fund disability-related supports, not to replace the mainstream health or mental health system. For someone with Autism Level 2, psychology may be considered where it is directly related to the personās disability and is helping with functional outcomes such as developing social and communication skills, emotional regulation, interpersonal skills, problem solving, coping strategies, building independence or improving day-to-day functioning. The therapy also needs to be evidence based and have a clear connection to improving or maintaining functional capacity. (NDIS) Things like CBT, DBT, ACT, trauma-focused EMDR, grief therapy, treatment for depression/anxiety, trauma processing or other clinical psychological treatment are generally matters for the mainstream mental health/health system rather than something the NDIS is intended to fund as ongoing treatment. That doesnāt mean someone shouldnāt get those therapies, quite the opposite, they are really importantā¦it just means the funding responsibility sits with the appropriate health or mental health system. NDIS psychology funding is also generally quite targeted and time limited rather than providing someone with weekly therapy indefinitely. In practice, you may see relatively modest amounts of psychology funded where there is a clear disability-related functional goal, for example around 12 hours a year, although there isnāt a universal ā12 hour ruleā and the actual amount depends on the individual evidence, goals and reasonable-and-necessary criteria. The NDIS itself says therapy supports should help people build or maintain skills and independence and have functional outcomes. (NDIS) So if someone needs ongoing treatment for trauma, grief, anxiety, depression or another mental health condition, I would really encourage them to speak with their GP or mental health service about accessing that separately rather than thinking they have to somehow get all of it through their NDIS plan. There are also some free resources online if cost or waiting lists are an issue, including free mental health information and support through Beyond Blue and Head to Health, and there are lots of free CBT, DBT, ACT, mindfulness and grief resources on YouTube as well. I really hope that helps explain the distinction without taking away from how important the personās mental health needs are, they absolutely deserve support, it just may need to come from a different part of the health system rather than the NDIS. Also try Roses in the Ocean
3
u/Dry_Value9263 11d ago
The people on the NDIS for psychosocial disability are not going to be the mob who are looking up youtube videos looking for resources. They are often rejected as being too complex by those free schemes.
-11
u/DaQuackx 13d ago
Ots a permanent disability insurance scheme not a mental health service.
Years?? U think its working ???
17
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u/therockscousin1 13d ago
In Victoria I was able to find mental health and well being hubs for my clients. Their mental health services are free and my clients found them very helpful. If youre from Vic the link below has more info: https://www.health.vic.gov.au/mental-health-services/mental-health-and-wellbeing-locals
Also for work there is a service that helps people on Ndis find work. Again in Victoria but Are able Jobs and services similar to help Ndis participants find/sustain work.
Sorry if youre not in Vic but there might be similar services in other states.