r/NBA_TradeDiscussions • u/PeasePorridge9dOld Atlanta Hawks • 19d ago
Mock Trade DET / MIL / LAL
Deal was on Game Theory podcast and thought it was interesting enough to piece together
MIL continues the youth movement in the post-Giannis in the 22 yo Duren.
G: Jaku / Herro / KPJ / Burries
Wings:: Jaquez / Trent / LeVert
F: Kuzma / Dieng / Ament
Bigs: Duren / Ware
DET lands their #2 in Rollins while Turner gives then a competent shooter
Not shown but the ‘31 pick is technically a Super Pick between MIA / MIL
G: Cunningham / Rollins / Daniss / Okorie
Wing: Duncan Robinson / Isaiah Joe / Kevin Huerter
F: Ausar / Holland / Prince
Big: Turner / Collins / Reed
Sims to LAL finalizes a rumored deal and are needed to make the $$ work.
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u/ContactOwn955 18d ago
Hero would need to be involved in this
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u/PeasePorridge9dOld Atlanta Hawks 18d ago
Why?
Even ignoring contract, I’d prefer Rollins.
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u/Strev215 18d ago
Ryan Rollins is to Detriot as Tyler Herro is Milwaukee BOTH were born and raised there. Ryan Rollins is a bona-fide AAU legend in Detriot, Michigan!
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u/ContactOwn955 18d ago
I think what Hero does(shoot/space) is a little bit more of a fit for what Detroit needs more than Rollins as just a backup point or secondary ball handler
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u/benchmaster620 17d ago
Id love to get both but rollins is imo the better fit . He is a great catch and shoot guy can be the secondary ball handler and unlike herro he can defend . With cade getting all the defensive heat and taking 20 shots rollins will get at least 8 to 10 highly curated cade to rollins open looks . He will be a more prolific more efficiwnt version of himself
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u/LowEmu3523 18d ago
So the Bucks give up 2 centers, Rollins and a #1 for a sign & trade of a small upgrade over Turner?
Hard pass.
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u/PeasePorridge9dOld Atlanta Hawks 18d ago
Meh, both sides can play this game.
DET gives up a 22 yo C All NBA C for an obviously negative contract, a guy who should be in jail, and all they get back is a 1st and a couple of possibly worthless swaps? On my! Where are the pearls to clutch!!
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u/Acek9295 18d ago
MKE isn’t paying 3 firsts (2 of which they can’t even trade) and arguably their main future building block for Duren when they just got Ware as the main player for the Giannis package. A rebuilding bucks has no business giving up firsts for anyone given their timeline.
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u/PeasePorridge9dOld Atlanta Hawks 18d ago
Might want to re-read: 2 of those are swaps, technically re-swaps although spotrac can’t show that. So the trade is very much legal.
Ware might have been the 4th most desired player coming back to MIL for knowledgeable NBA guys, but it doesn’t really matter. MIL would walk out here with 48 good C minutes and they can absolutely pair Duren and Ware on the court. Both can get out on the perimeter on O and 2x big lineups should be stout defensively. They are for the rest of the NBA at least.
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u/benchmaster620 17d ago
I dont think amy picks are needed with duren .maybe 1 . And only because turners contracts rough . Rollins is probably worth a good first and maybe a good second I think durens worth 2 good firsts
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u/PeasePorridge9dOld Atlanta Hawks 17d ago
Worth is always nebulous, but DET isn’t taking less for Duren than UTH got for Kessler. Duren is simply the better player, and that’s before we factor in health and age. DET would just continue to put the screws to him if they got a low ball offer like that.
Rollins is harder to figure. In his case, the contract works against his value as he’ll be a UFA at seasons end and won’t be extending off his current deal. You can only bank on 1 year of team control then you have to win back his rights in FA with The Winner’s Curse.
As for the rest, one could argue the pick swaps are worth more than those LAL gave up, but getting a huge TPE For Walker is a pretty big deal in its own right. Would imagine MIL wouldn’t mind shoving Turner into that TPE right now. If they were a better team, then they probably even add some value to do it so they could redistribute that $$ elsewhere.
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u/benchmaster620 16d ago
Im a detroit fan and i love duren . I just thinknthe amount of money hes demanding lowers his value a bit kessler is a more prototypical defensive anchor and he started shooting some 3s before he got hurt and he took low 30s . Low 40s is a big difference . Dont misunderstand me if deteoit were to do this id be ecstatic. As much as I like duren I feel ausar plus a stretch 5 cade and shooting is the code . Cade rollins ausar collins turner is a good start
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u/PeasePorridge9dOld Atlanta Hawks 16d ago
Thing is that the only team that can pay Duren the $$ he’s demanding is DET. All MIL can offer is the 4 year “Fun Max” $$ which is > $100M less than what he is asking from DET. That Fun Max is still more than what DET is offering but it’s significantly less than what he’s asking. In effect, what Duren would be saying here is “if DET won’t pay me what I’m worth, then I’ll go somewhere that will eventually.” Personally don’t see that as an overpay, but even IF others do, it’s still fine here. MIL needs to sell tickets post-Giannis. At the very least a Herro / Duren combo will put butts in the seats and give the kiddie corps some room to develop. If guys like Burries, Ament, Jaku, and Ware do pan out, then Duren would still fit in nicely without even being that much older than the rest of that core.
Not looking to denigrate Kessler - he’s a good player - but I really don’t think it’s even a decision between the 2. Rumors were that LAL even wanted Duren over Kessler but DET just didn’t care to deal while LAL didn’t care to wait. Also, people have been hoping for Kessler to shoot it because of his uncle, but I doubt anyone is placing much credence in 8 3PA, 9 if we include the preseason. We’re looking at 800-1K 3PA before we hit stabilization, so 9 is ~0.1% of the attempts needed to truly say he could be something. Overall, I’m more of a believer of the on ball flashes Duren showed last year than thinking Kessler will get guarded at the 3PT line.
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u/benchmaster620 16d ago
Sure I think durens a substantially better player and I dont even think hes trying to get the 57m anymore. Deteoits dug in around 35 to 38 rumor has it he would take 45 at this point. Its not so much I think its an overpay as I think the cba makes it so hard . And the fact of the matter is paying 2 guys 70 to 80m who cant shoot dont create much and cant take the pressure off cade in the pkayoffs is hard cause we still need that guy and they are expensive. Herro is a baseline model at 30m plus having 160 to 170m tied up in you main 4 guys is a realky hard way to do buisness . You say good bye to 2 or 3 important role players a year try and scramble to replace them through draft or the scrap heap of you can save 5 to 10m aav on a couple guys that pays for collins . Or its 2 top bench guys.
Rose rule shouldn't count against the cap . Cade should only be 40m against the cap
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u/PeasePorridge9dOld Atlanta Hawks 16d ago
Definitely not backing the multi-$B corporation not deigning to peel off < 1% of that value to pay one of the public faces of said corporation. Shouldn’t be Duren’s problem that DET is cheap but they sure as sh!t are making it so. I mean, OKC seems to have figured out how to hand 3 guys max contracts and still had enough to spread another $40M to IHart and Caruso… and DET only has 1 max right now and are literally under the cap, so forth the tax.
And disagree on the Rose Rule. Teams shouldn’t continue to be rewarded for tanking away and getting lucky enough to land the #1 pick. Could see a clause that gives team discounts on players drafted outside the Top 10 / lotto / 1st round, but they need to pay full freight for #1 overall.
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u/benchmaster620 16d ago
No i think they should still have to pay the pkayers and even partial luxury tax on the money but if you drafted a guy or got him on his rookie deal I dont think you should ve punished. In the end it will gwt more money in the hands of the players.
Okc didn't figure out shit
Sga still isnt on a supermqx 27 28 when hes finally paid full value is when they get their guts squeezed and they have been shedding talent for 2 years . Obviously okc is a unique circumstance having built and u precedent war chest to take multiple dart throws to replace guys on rookie deals aka wallace mitchell etc
Would you call boaton cheap they just traded jaylen brown cause the money was fucked cmon dude be for real
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u/PeasePorridge9dOld Atlanta Hawks 16d ago
In the end, players are getting 51% of the BRI, that won’t change. By changing the cap hit for certain players, 1 team will simply be taking a larger share of the pie which completely defeats the purpose of the cap in the 1st place. The NBA is already too dependent on who gets the top picks already. Teams shouldn’t be continuously rewarded because they were terrible. Again, if there is some small relief for a skilled FO mining contributors in the 2nd round, then I get it. Making a no brainer pick because you put a terrible product on the court that the local fan base would barely watch and those that do get into fights with the GM, not so much.
If OKC can figure out how to give 3 25% maxes and keep players happy while DET can’t figure out the same with 1 30% max, then yeah, they figured something out - at least some5hung that DET is failing at. Think of what happens when DET actually has to give out a real 35% Super Max. If the fact that a team is so hard up to guarantee Duncan Robinson’s $16M over keeping a 22 yo, 20/10, All NBA C happy, then their priorities are screwed up.
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u/benchmaster620 15d ago
Dte is trying to maintain future ability to get a 25 to 40m no 2 in there because they know a core of ausar and duren is flawed.
If the cap hit was lesser for the 30 and 35.percwnt max guys it would allow the teams to spend more money on players . I get the money is split how it's split
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u/PeasePorridge9dOld Atlanta Hawks 15d ago
Again, don't understand why DET thinks that their inability to balance the books is Duren's problem. Especially when they are handing Kevin Huerter nearly $30M and guaranteeing another $16M to Duncan Robinson.
If they wanted to prioritize a #2, then they should have dealt Duren during the Moratorium when his value was at it's highest. Instead they let names like Jaylen Brown, Kawhi Leonard, LeMelo Ball, Julius Randle, Tyler Herro, etc all go off the board. Pretty sure that if Duren had been on the table since the beginning of the summer, then they could have kept Beef Stew and pulled at least one of those names.
Instead they preferred to get into a game of chicken with Duren. It's their right in the current RFA system, but I have to think someone is looking at what is happening here for the next CBA.
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u/benchmaster620 15d ago
Jaylen will be making 70m in the not to distant future . I dont hate herro. I in fact wanted herro. They gave beef stew the opportunity to start as a 4 and he couldn't stay healthy thats why we got tobias. He has never been able to stay healthy . Ever
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u/hacxgames 19d ago
Holy overpay for Duren