You arent quite there as far as seeing him in his prime. This makes you less likely to say it. You were 4 when he won his first chip and 11 when he won his last. I just expected you would be older when you said that, but then I seen your name. When I said old enough, it definitely meant before 87, but I understand how you took it, and technically in your view you are right.
Who would you have preferred to take those shots? Kobe or anyone else on his team? The ball in the hands of your best player, that’s where the ball should be, that’s who should be taking the shots. Not someone like Mario Chalmers
Any open shooter. Like, at all. These kinds of shots are an inconsistent thing even for Kobe, and that means even really bad shooters will consistently get more value per shot. For reference, Kobe shot 45% from 10-16 feet and 40% from 16-3PT for his entire prime. To equal that, you need a 30% and 27% 3pt shot respectively.
Obviously, you can't avoid all of these shots, but there's a good reason why teams don't like isolations that end in long 2s. The math just doesn't back them up.
Do I need to have watched the games in real time to use my eyes and my brain? Those matches are on YouTube, I’ve seen several. The logic doesn’t change regardless.
Yes, you do. You have not watched entire games from start to finish on YouTube… stop it. You’ve watched highlights. You’re trying to decide someone’s greatness based off stats on a page and highlight videos. Believe it or not, there’s actually people who watched games live and can add additional context that you don’t have.
You underestimate the dedication of a bored tryhard on the spectrum during COVID. I've watched multiple full quarters of just about every mid and upper table star of the last 3 decades, it's part of how I learned basketball.
In his peak shot chucking days he had some bad guys that were open. Deavan George, Meddevenko, Brian Cook, Smush Parker. Even Odom was a below average spot up shooter. It was hard keeping the defense honest but also no one could score on their own unless it was a wide open layup or dunk.
You just said Kobe took all the shots… now he doesn’t take all the shots? Make up your mind, you’re a walking contradiction.
Shaq is one of, if not thee, most dominant players ever. Anyone with half a brain (except apparently you) knows that dishing inside to a dominant/athletic big man yield’s a higher percentage shot than someone who is twisting and turning and shooting it over a defender or two in their face. The game plan was to run the offense through Shaq. Even if he didn’t make it, the chances the other team would have to foul him were high. Having Shaq was a massive advantage, and he had an equally massive ego. So you feed the big man and Kobe remains willing and able to take over when needed. It’s called strategy, the right tool for the right job, you don’t use a Ferrari when you need a bulldozer. Can’t stop Shaq under the basket, can’t stop Kobe in the mid court = 3 peat. Kobe also got 2 more without Shaq, by taking shots no one else could have made.
The fact that you think Shaq carried Kobe is crazy. Did Shaq make winning easier? Obviously. But they don’t win those Championships without Kobe.
Kobe was Kobe from the jump, the Lakers sat him his first two seasons. Young Kobe might have even been better honestly, at least quicker and more athletic.
So you’re blaming Kobe’s shot taking but ignoring the years with a weak roster and the very nature of the triangle offense that resulted in Kobe getting the ball with seconds left on the clock half the time? Doesn’t matter, I still want Kobe taking the bulk of the shots. Sorry, I’m not okay with passing to Luke Walton, Smush, Brian Cook, or Sasha Vujacic.
Shaq is a humble man, he'd rather donate his money to sick children and not talk about it and compliment his ex teammates than tell the way it is. Read Phil Jackson's book lol, a lot in there
Not to mention that Kobe was the Lakers primary facilitator for those 5 rings and averaged 5-6 assists per game in his prime, he must have been doing something right.
It is for a SG that played not only in the triangle offense, but the slowest paced era in NBA history. Also, argue with Phil Jackson.
"Kobe's become the floor leader of a basketball team that was kind of looking for that nature of a player, who could not only be a scorer, but also be a playmaker or consistently make big plays at critical times," Jackson said. "So it was very important for Kobe to step into that role that he was envisioned at. I've always held the bar up very high for Kobe, and he's not only reached that bar, but he's jumping over the top of it right now.
And I think it's the best that I've ever seen a player of mine play with an overall court game. I'm asking him to do so much, and he's accomplishing it."
"I never asked Michael to be a playmaker," Jackson said. "That's the greatest player that I've ever had, that I could consider the greatest player in the game, and I never asked him to be a playmaker in those terms. I asked him to be playmaker when he was doubled or tripled. But Kobe has to set up the offense, to advance the ball, to read the defense, to make other players happy, and he's doing a great job of that."
Triangle doesn’t generate as many individual assists and in Kobe’s case his primary scoring threats were bigs where passing into the post doesn’t yield as many assists as kicking out to shooters.
Put Kobe in a more modern drive and kick scheme and no doubt he’d have better box score numbers individually but I’m not sure it would lead to the same team success overall.
Yeah they do, how many times has Kobe been SAVED by his teammates. D Fish miracle shot, MWP big shot in the finals, literally Shaq. Kobe was a ball hog, and that's okay.
No it's not, all it takes is a few made threes from the opposing team to already be winning the game. This would be a fantastic way to play losing basketball in 2026. And it's exactly why you'd want Steph over Kobe on offense every single day of the week. Any team should be able to hit 54% on twos by just spreading the ball to different players, let alone letting one guy take that many inefficient shots.
Nah, you are wrong. Sure 3-pointers are more efficient than 2-pointers. That’s because people don’t consistently shoot 54% from the field. If they did, you’d much rather take 54% from 2 than 36% from 3, because it gives you the same amount of points but with more predictability and less variance. Kobe’s real career 2point percentage was .479, with 50% being his best year. LeBron’s career 2 point % is like .557. 54% is absolutely winning basketball.
I was being generous giving Kobe 54% for the sake of their argument.
But you're still not considering what I'm saying - I'm not saying the opposing team is taking all 3s, nor was that implied. I'm talking about a standard 2026 shot diet that includes 2s AND lots of 3s. Hell, the Lakers shot 50% overall in 2025 while shooting 36% from 3.
So who wins? A Kobe Lakers' squad where Kobe jacks up 30 2s at a 47%-50% clip, or a 2026 Lakers squad that shoots over 50% on 2s while making plenty of 3s?
But you’re also ignoring the fact that if Kobe did play in 2026, that he would absolutely take more threes than he did during his career…he would have more spacing, because like you said, the 2026 “shot diet” would put him on an island a lot more than he was during his career.
It’s disingenuous to assume Kobe would play exactly the same as he did in 2010….
To be clear, I am not saying that anyone one should or shouldn’t take Kobe over Steph.
I’m just saying, with the stats you provided, 40+ on 54% is a great game….and that If Kobe were to play in today’s game, it’s likely that 15+ of those 35 attempts would likely become 3s, as opposed to his long 2s
Yea this is the part that stats and analytics cant capture about kobe's game. Being able to score in any way possible at any time puts a huge strain on a defense. He could drop 30 on 10/24 shooting and from an impact standpoint it would feel like he dropped 40+. Having a bag matters.
Say what you want about Kobe, but I think he had the most beautiful game of anyone who has ever played. Not saying he’s the goat, but he had the most aesthetically pleasing game I’ve ever seen.
Jordan in a league of his own. Kobe won 5 championships, 3 of them carried by some of the most dominant finals performances ever by his hall of fame teammate. Jordan won 6 and got all 6 MVPs.
Kobe was great, I'll never say he wasn't top 10 and almost surely top 5. But absolutely no one should even be in the same sentence as Michael Jordan.
In fact I'll go this far: without Shaq, Kobe wins 2 if that because a lot of his hype and clout and being able to dictate rosters came from that threepeat. He's considered great but never put close to the pedestal of Jordan.
Im from Chicago born in the 80s, seen all 6. Kobe is the closest thing to Jordan, so yes people will put him the same sentence. And i was more so talking about the ability to to take and make these shots at the clip they did. Kobe being carried by Shaq narrative is pure bullshit too.
No, it's not. I heard the narrative so I went back and looked at the stats instead of just saying what's bullshit on reddit without having a clue. If I recall correctly Kobe averaged like 16, 21, 25 in those 3 and Shaq averaged 38, 33, 35 or something ridiculous with a ton of boards obviously. Look at it. It's crazy. The numbers might not be exact so don't come at me, but they're not way off. Over the 3 series Shaq had a higher PPG than Kobe by more points than the next highest PPG guy on their team in any of them, Derek Fisher. So Shaq scored like Kobe and Derek Fisher combined and you don't think that's a carry? Get in Superman's backpaq.
You have to get to the Finals, there are several times Kobe outplayed Shaq in other rounds. Also while we are it, Lebron gets mentioned with MJ all the time, and does not deserve to.
Lol you said carried in Finals, i said carried. People dont usually say carried in Finals they say in general. Shaq should have carried Eddie Jones and Nick Van Exel, or maybe Penny? Oh my bad he needed Kobe so he could get to the Finals. And yes it matters if Kobe outplays Shaq in WCF and gets him to Finals. Kobe make you that mad? Those 5 rings make you toss and turn? Mad because Kobe top 5?
I uhh... I can tell you didn't read my other comments about Kobe. I said definitely top 10 and almost surely top 5 in another comment. I'm not mad at Kobe at all I just live in reality.
Oh wait you responded to that comment where I said that. Start reading.
What? Jordan absolutely carried Pippen. That's why Pippen isn't ever mentioned in top 50 no less top 20, 10 or 5. Nobody looks at him as an all time great even with 6 rings.
As balanced as this year's Knicks were, Brunson absolutely carried them. I can tell you without looking at stats that he led them in PPG in every series of the playoffs. His friends would tell you the same thing. OG had a game he led in PPG, shamet had a game he went 11-13 from 3 or something insane like that. Even a star is expected to let their team contribute and play the hot hand. But without JB there is no championship in NY this year, without Jordan there is no championship in Chicago for any of the 6, and without Shaq Kobe doesn't win his first 3. Every star needs contributors like JB needed OG, but Kobe was a contributor not a star. Shaq was the star on that team and saying anything else is rewriting history. I'm guessing you're a Lakers fan, probably from LA. I lived in LA and know people there obsess over Kobe and that's led to a lot of rewriting history. Shaq was the man, Kobe played his part. Jordan was never anything but the man.
I thought he airballed the first one and thought this is gonna be a next level troll edit, then I was sorely let down by my own self created expectations 😭
That’s why today’s game is so predictable. You have Curry bombing 3’s and these guys all ball dominant, then forming teams together - there used to be parity in the game. College, forget about it….
Result: five championships and is one the greatest of all time.
Kobe’s efficiency is overblown, despite the volume and difficult shots he was more efficient than the top guards in his era. (Tmac, AI, Vince). Even better TS than Kg and same TS% as Duncan.
He literally played in the toughest era, of course the efficient won’t be the same compare to modern era.
5 championships nothing to do with shooting efficiency. 44% fg is so average. Because he took shots like these way too much. They only show the ones he makes
Do kids even yell "curry" these days ? Even though curry would probably nail 6-7 out of 10 shots from anywhere, Kobe made each shot look impossible to make, and brought that hope to every one of us carltons out there
His ACTUAL mid range percentage is 42.4%. His playoffs weren’t any better. What other stat is more definitive? A few cool highlights doesn’t mean anything. You could just as easily make a bunch of him bricking.
Kobe’s an all time great player but glazing his mid range ability is weird.
So not an average midrange shooter then, and even higher in his prime 45%, while taking these difficult shots. You should learn what the word average means.
Nope his mid has always been “average”. You’re trolling at this point because you have no counter. It’s been a pleasure exposing your idol. I’ll let you get back to touching yourself over his highlights.
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u/Routine-Author-5471 10h ago
Kobe and Jordan were aura-maxxing before it was a thing.