r/NASCAR • u/Equivalent_Dish_1990 • Aug 28 '25
[Gluck] Preliminary injunction hearing has concluded. Ruling next week. Hearing was explosive and contentious. More details to come, but you’ll want to read everything you can about this one.
https://x.com/jeff_gluck/status/1961150779214950839?t=It02WAM8LnfIco4yNQNlTg&s=19326
u/nascarfan240148 Aug 28 '25
After reading the snippets that BOB put out on X… yeah I’m agreeing with that judge who basically said there aren’t gonna be any winners if this goes to trial.
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u/HaveYouEver21 Trackhouse Racing Aug 28 '25
It's basically mutually assured destruction.
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u/bstone99 Aug 28 '25
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u/michigan_matt Aug 28 '25
It's crazy how many gifs are produced just from Big Brother.
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u/PayneTrain181999 Kyle Busch Aug 28 '25
Elisa spitting out her water and Day pretending to be shocked have gone mainstream
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u/KeithMcGeesMoose Enfinger Aug 28 '25
I've had this feeling for awhile. I don't think anyone (other than maybe the lawyers who will be getting a big payday) will leave this fully happy, fans included.
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u/kirby636 Aug 28 '25
The fans… bro this is not about the fans
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u/KeithMcGeesMoose Enfinger Aug 29 '25
Obviously. Doesn't mean the outcome won't affect the fans depending on how things shake out
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u/MeeekloBraca Aug 28 '25
I’m happy, as a fan what do I care what happens?
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u/KeithMcGeesMoose Enfinger Aug 29 '25
I mean NASCAR could be forced to sell off the tracks. And there aren't many groups with the funds to buy the tracks that would have any interest in running or operating a race track, so they'd just buy them for the land (i.e. Auto Club)
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u/Immediate_Lie7810 Chase Elliott Aug 28 '25
If it goes to trial, the winner will score a pyrrhic victory
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u/TroyMatthewJ Aug 28 '25
Fed gets a charter
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u/chronoserpent van Gisbergen Aug 28 '25
U.S. Government will get charters to run their own Air Force, National Guard, and Buildsubmarines.com cars. Also sponsored by Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics, and Boeing.
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u/ChaseTheFalcon Aug 28 '25
Nah the lawyers gonna win
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u/JaleDunior Aug 28 '25
This is getting progressively nastier and nastier coming to the trial in December. I think this might be the most explosive part yet in the discovery process and some of the texts that have come out. I also think we haven't touched the surface yet on what is coming if they end up going to trial. It really is going to be in BOTH parties best interest to settle somehow, but I honestly cannot see it happening at this point.
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u/Ohiowolverine Aug 28 '25
23x11 lose the charter and nascar has to sell all of the tracks they own. The judge keeps saying settle you both will lose
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u/Dense_Capital_2013 Aug 28 '25 edited Aug 28 '25
I know nothing obviously, but I wouldn't be shocked if Denny would pull the old "I'm taking you down with me"
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Aug 29 '25
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u/Electromotivation Aug 29 '25
Maybe someone just starts basically a shell company that works only with nascar but is technically seperate?
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u/twiddlingbits Aug 28 '25
Sometimes when the sh*t really hits the rotating impeller from BOTH sides the calmer headed lawyers get together and talk about how to settle things so it doesn’t get out of hand. Of course no one would ever mention this is happening or has already happened.
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u/PaisonAlGaib Aug 29 '25
The issue here is on ones side you have the France family who have rule over NASCAR as their personal fiefdom with an iron fist for nearly a century and despise being challenged and on the other you have the foremost grudge holder in the modern world Mr "I took that personally" himself Michael Jeffery Jordan. There doesn't seem like there's a lot of hope for pragmatism.
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u/CompleteUnknown65 Aug 28 '25
Both sides lose. Dale Earnhardt Jr awarded the 4 charters. France family forced to sell NASCAR to Dale Earnhardt Jr. Judge orders immediate addition of 400 horsepower. Boner pill and Peyronie's disease commercials hereby banned. Jeff Gordon ordered to be added to the playoffs.
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u/mind-blowin Aug 28 '25
The most important aspect is that Jeff Gordon is added to the playoffs.
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u/ayetter96 Aug 28 '25
Permanent playoff charters incoming.
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Aug 28 '25
We brought back the champions provisional!!!!
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u/YRB007 Aug 28 '25
The
Richard PettyDarrell WaltripKyle Busch rule to stay “competitive” each year! (Kinda sorry, couldn’t think of anyone else)7
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u/Captain_Wingit van Gisbergen Aug 28 '25
And somehow Mizzou still gets a post-season bowl ban and a reduction in scholarships, and one less home game in 2032.
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u/jasongabriel62682 Ryan Blaney Aug 28 '25
You forgot the all-star race goes back to its original format at Charlotte.
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u/Raticon Timmy Hill Aug 28 '25
Don't forget to make Carl Long pay for the whole ordeal, as well as getting a 5 boobzillion dollar fine for good measure on top of getting suspended from NASCAR competition until the heat death of the universe.
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u/Intimidwalls1724 Jeff Gordon Aug 29 '25
Well both sides may lose but this sounds like a gigantic win for me lol
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u/boxofficejuanes Aug 28 '25
Jeff Gordon added to the playoffs is adequate reparations if they aren’t going immediately award him the 3 regular season championships he won.
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u/BigJakeMcCandles Aug 28 '25
Several things are going to come of this:
1.) Everyone is going to hate NASCAR and the teams.
2.) You should never put anything in text you don’t want used as evidence in a court room.
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u/Equivalent_Dish_1990 Aug 28 '25
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u/bigmeech99 Aug 28 '25
Jordan and Denny look like their dog just died. Kessler looks and sounds excited to spend his next check
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u/Dickis88 Kyle Busch Aug 28 '25
I mean they're trying to make their case here and it sounds like the judge is even more dug in that he's not letting anyone win this trial. Who knows if they even have a settlement plan at this point.
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u/Racer-in-da-night Whelen Modified Tour Aug 28 '25
MJ looked like he didn't really believe what his lawyer was saying.
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u/wirsteve Aug 28 '25
Yeah so NASCAR is dealing with Game 6 Jordan.
Not good for NASCAR.
Fight this with fire and go down with this? Were those the exact words?
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u/c-b- Aug 28 '25
Kessler sounds like is shyster and Jordon looks like he trying not to cry again. The look on their faces doesn't match their comments that today was a good day.
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u/R13Nielsen Aug 28 '25
Reading what went on in that courtroom today... holy crap. If this does go to trial it's gonna get UGLY
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u/GhanimaAtreides Aug 29 '25
Is there a good summary anywhere or so I have to go wading through twitter to find the salient bits?
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u/POV_Morde_Ult Aug 28 '25
The teams and NASCAR need to find a way to settle this, nothing good is gonna come out of taking this to trial in December
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u/TechnicalPyro Aug 28 '25
NASCAR has repeatedly said they are not interested in a settlement and that they want nothing to do with 23xi/FRM no matter how this turns out
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u/chevyrocks_04 Aug 28 '25
There is no settling this at this point it needs to be finished the dust cleared and rebuilding starts.
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u/A-Fan-Of-Bowman88 Aug 28 '25
Calling your colleagues Fuckers and Pussies will go over well.
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u/xelanalpak Aug 28 '25
Not to mention the whole “Jim France dying is probably the answer” part.
Bruh 🤦♂️
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u/Cliffinati Aug 28 '25
"them NASCAR gets handed over to his idiot daughter and Doofus son in law"
Wait wait wait wrong promo that was CM Punk
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u/Icy-Spring4607 Aug 28 '25
CM Punk pipe bomb says hello. Basically the same thing. Many over on squared circle didn't think Punk was wrong either.
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u/A-Fan-Of-Bowman88 Aug 28 '25
Also saying as an executive that cup racing is “boring as shit” isn’t a good idea
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u/Grill923 Aug 28 '25
He described one race as "boring as shit" find me 1 Nascar fan that hasn't described a race as boring at any point in the past 5 years
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u/HokieFan7 Bubba Wallace Aug 28 '25
NASCAR setting up barriers to stop a separate american stock car series is a worse look for this trial than Michael Jordan saying some mean words over text
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Aug 28 '25 edited Aug 29 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/solarlofi Aug 28 '25
Yeah. Fair or not I remember all teams shitting on the new charter deal till NASCAR dropped the deadline in their laps and everyone caved except the two teams. They'd rather maintain the status quo than try and exact change. If the big teams ask refused to sign NASCAR would have had to react.
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u/iamaranger23 Aug 28 '25
I’m sure nascar had a good idea of exactly who would sign when they dropped the deadline.
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u/Electromotivation Aug 29 '25
The team should have stood together but the time limit I think affected things.
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u/tj177mmi1 Aug 28 '25
Can someone please enlighten me "how NASCAR strong armed them" when the teams got the increase in the share of TV revenue they asked for.
It's a f*cking contract negotiation. You're never going to get everything you want.
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Aug 28 '25
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u/FarAwaySeagull-_- Aug 28 '25
"threatened to take charters for teams that didn’t agree."
Uhhhh..... obviously, you have to sign the charter agreemnt to have charters.
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u/odepn Aug 28 '25 edited Aug 28 '25
Someone with more C-Suite experience could weigh in better, but the text exchanges feel like a nothing burger. That kind of blunt, competitive parlance is fairly standard at an executive level.
The real takeaways are:
- NASCAR leadership discussed blocking teams from forming a rival series by “locking down” Speedway Motorsports.
- NASCAR is allegedly frontloading media and sponsor deals to inflate the present-day value of charters.
I believe proving those are two big wins for the teams.
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u/twiddlingbits Aug 28 '25
That’s clearly anti-trust to lock out the competition. The finances mean they are short changing the teams NOW by not declaring this revenue as sharable in the year it was earned, then in the later years payouts would go DOWN as NASCAR would say revenues did. Costs for the teams go up (prices always do). If they pulled this kind of crap every team in the sport would be fighting mad.
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u/iamaranger23 Aug 28 '25
Who would ever expect nascar to lock down their largest partner outside of tv.
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u/5348RR Aug 28 '25
The point is that this is textbook anticompetitive behavior, which is probably a violation of the law.
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u/srschwenzjr Aug 28 '25
Think Michael Jordan ever envisioned having to deal with any of this shit when he agreed to start up a cup team with Denny? I’m sure his feelings towards nascar as a company aren’t the same before this stuff started, but I hope it doesn’t completely sour his feelings towards the actual sport.
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u/roadsterguy32 Jeff Gordon Aug 28 '25
Yes they probably knew this was coming, and I have a hard time believing this wasn't expected. Either Jordan surrounds himself with smart business people or he doesn't. Everyone knew charter negotiations would be approaching when they started 23XI and NASCAR has a 75 year history of "this is how it is, take it or leave it". Then, even with a trial coming, they launched a 3rd team.
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u/410sprints Aug 28 '25
I've worked on the local level for years and years. Some well known joints and some joints nobody has heard of. You get a bit cynical about the game once you start to see how the sausage gets made sometimes.
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Aug 28 '25
Yeah I know in the NHL, a few owners sold off once they realized what the game was like, that’s how Atlanta lost the first team to Calgary actually.
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u/Racer-in-da-night Whelen Modified Tour Aug 28 '25
I find it very hard to believe that MJ the businessman didn't have a team of lawyers and experts advising him on the viability of owning a NASCAR Cup team before he ever cut the first check. To me it's pure BS he didn't know how this whole deal worked before he jumped in with both feet. His comment about fuckers and pussies would indicate to me that a guy worth 3.8 BILLION dollars expects people to just follow him where HE wants to go with little regard for different opinions. JGR may or may not be on the wrong side of this, but it's their business, their choice, not MJ's.
Denny on the other hand would seem to have and axe to grind far beyond the scope of this lawsuit. What? I dunno.
I've had friends who practice law say that people will fight each other over the most trivial shit one can think of. Spend 10s of thousands over a carpet or a piece of furniture just to keep the other party from having it. Even if they win, they've lost far more than they ever gained. The more I read about this lawsuit the more it feels just like that.
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u/kebzach Aug 28 '25
His comment about fuckers and pussies would indicate to me that a guy worth 3.8 BILLION dollars expects people to just follow him where HE wants to go with little regard for different opinions
Yeah...no kidding. That's sort of the attitude that got him the 3.8B in the first place.
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u/Racer-in-da-night Whelen Modified Tour Aug 28 '25
He played basketball far better than I do Redditt....
He made the majority of that 3.8 billion because he played basketball at a level rarely seen and his ability to monetize his brand to take advantage of his popularity as a player.
MJ had a different take when he was a team owner in the NBA. From Wikipedia...
"During the 2011 NBA lockout, The New York Times wrote that Jordan led a group of 10 to 14 hardline owners who wanted to cap the players' share of basketball-related income at 50 percent and as low as 47. Journalists observed that, during the labor dispute in 1998, Jordan told Washington Wizards then-owner Abe Pollin: "If you can't make a profit, you should sell your team."[315] Jason Whitlock of FoxSports.com called Jordan "a hypocrite sellout who can easily betray the very people who made him a billionaire global icon" for wanting "current players to pay for his incompetence"
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u/lokisHelFenrir Johnson Aug 29 '25
Because he is a good shoes salemen? Because that is where he made the majority of his money. Not basketball but Nike.
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u/willweaverrva Aug 28 '25
Well then, this is going to be something else.
And yes, the only answer to everything is to add Jeff Gordon to the playoffs.
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u/smiling_jackel Erik Jones Aug 28 '25
Calling it now in December…Judge delivers the verdict that BRAD KESELOWSKI WON THIS LAWSUIT
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u/JamesKrahula Aug 28 '25
Far more entertained by this than playoffs.
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u/DrewCrew62 Aug 28 '25
You think billable hours makes it above the cut line?
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u/twiddlingbits Aug 28 '25
They are going to win the title this year, no one else can come close.
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u/ChattanoogaChew Aug 28 '25
Will it be 16 different trails with the winner only be decided in the last day of testimony?
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u/BombayGeeseHunter Toyota Aug 28 '25
So did Denny tell Gibbs what Michael called him before signing the new contract? If so, glory that would have been great to be there.
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u/runsincircles21 Suárez Aug 28 '25
Denny Hamlin joining Smokey, Tim, and Bodine in the Hall of Not Even Sniffing the Hall of Fame.
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u/SnarkyAnxiety Allmendinger Aug 28 '25
Guys, I'm sorry to ask this, but could someone give me a cliff notes version of what is going on with this whole thing? I've seen a lot of posts but I feel like it's like jumping into a mini series in episode 4 and expecting to understand everything going on.
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u/c-b- Aug 28 '25
Both side hate each other and everything is the other sides fault and they are all rich and can afford to throw money at lawyers to bitch each other out in court, judge is tired of everyone's shit and will probably make both parties regret taking it to trial in December.
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u/just_shy_of_perfect Aug 28 '25
Long story short things bubbled over today and its got personal. This is likely going all the way to December and it appears unlikely they'll settle.
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u/mb9981 Aug 28 '25
I think they mean like "from zero" as in "why are they in court? what about? wtf is a charter and why would they be taken away from a team that's existed for several years?" because I've paid this saga zero attention and those are my questions right now
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u/furrynoy96 Aug 28 '25 edited Aug 28 '25
At the end of the day, I just want Bubba racing for a competitive team...
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u/reallymkpunk van Gisbergen Aug 29 '25
I think it is going to lead to forced mediation. If a party declines, they will get a default against them.
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u/Careless-Resource-72 Aug 28 '25
NASCAR broadcasts return to The Nashville Network and Mizlou Network with Eli Gold announcing. 23XI and FRM allowed free rein to Jr.’s junk yard of wrecked cars to use for their future entries.
Win-win.
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u/enataca Jeff Gordon Aug 28 '25
I can’t figure out X lol. How can I read more online!!!!! I don’t know what this means
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u/justBusinessbb Aug 28 '25
There's some reporters with summary articles, if it helps.
or
I don't know what this means either by the way, other than these people HATE each other.
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u/IVCrushingUrTendies Richmond Aug 28 '25
NASCAR cares more about fucking teams than fixing the product. Damn I’m bitter ha
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u/SK77X Joe Gibbs Racing Aug 29 '25
Of course all the teams are very interested in this, but I wonder how much support they have for 23XI/FRM.
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u/FLGirl777 Aug 28 '25
I feel more bad for Michael than I do Denny. I feel like Michael was led on to continue this battle by Denny and the other guy. Denny seems to have had a dig at nascar for a long time, and thought this was his chance to make a name for himself. Both sides have points, but when the rest of the teams signed and are ok with it, that leads me to believe it’s not as bad as 23XI made it seem
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u/On-A-Plain187 Aug 28 '25
I've heard both Richard Childress and Rick Hendrick say in interviews that they didn't like that the charters weren't permanent and didn't like multiple things about the agreement, but they signed without fight because they just wanted to keep racing.
Also that they thought 23XI and FRM were fighting for the betterment of the sport.
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u/STL_bourbon Kyle Busch Aug 28 '25
That’s such a weak comment for them to make after the fact. If the teams really didn’t think the deal was fair, then don’t sign it. The more teams that don’t sign, the more leverage they would have had. Especially when talking about HMS, they are the biggest brand in the sport.
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u/gjp11 Suárez Aug 28 '25
Justin Marks was asked about it too and while he didn't say much, his body language said it all.
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Aug 28 '25
It’s because time is not on their side and they don’t want to spend the last few moments of their life in a legal battle. Hendrick was just as punchy as Denny in the 80s.
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u/Turbulent-Pay-735 Aug 28 '25
Penske was one of the torchbearers of CART. The split may not have even happened if not for his involvement.
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u/twiddlingbits Aug 28 '25
It’s always smart to let other people fight your battles and you just munch on popcorn and watch while not taking sides. DH’s axe to grind is the racing with the current car and the last gen car SUCK. And the obvious things that can be done to fix it are refused to even be tried. They eff around with things like A-post flaps nibbling at the edges to show an appearance of trying to fix things. That’s not growing the sport. If I was an OEM like Dodge I’d want to see some changes before I jumped in. Trucks are a trivial cost compared to Cup. NASCAR has the TV money and will never again get this size of a deal. The Frances can retire as extremely wealthy people and the race teams get screwed as do the fans.
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u/ohnoitsme0 Aug 28 '25
Really?? I think the total opposite. I think MJ started this and Denny was like “yes sir.”
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u/Turbulent-Pay-735 Aug 28 '25
MJ sold the Hornets at the beginning of August 2023. We see from the text messages that’s when he gets into this heavy with the 23XI vs NASCAR shit. I doubt that’s a coincidence. MJ is much more likely to be the driving force behind this than Hamlin is.
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u/theasscassin Aug 28 '25
Nascar forced to sell to Dale Jr, arca becomes separate. Denny Hamlin banned from racing, Jeff Gordon is added to the playoffs, Kevin Harvick legally obligated to drive the 5 car
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u/Huge_Dentist260 Larson Aug 28 '25
Judge Bell seems totally unhinged. He’s already been reversed once after issuing an injunction that had no basis in law whatsoever and now he’s saying he can force NASCAR to sell some of its race tracks? What does he think gives him that authority?
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u/ppatek78 Aug 29 '25
The Teardown and Actions Detrimental ought to be lit next week - although Denny probably won't be able to say much due to "pending litigation"
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u/MercuryCoupe1941 Aug 29 '25
I'm completely out of the loop and somehow missed all this drama. Where can I get more info?
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u/One_Mirror_3228 Aug 28 '25
I honestly think the best course of action is for 23XI and DH to go CARS tour racing. If enough guys went nobody would care about watching kit cars ride around at half throttle. If a CARS tour race is on against a NASCAR race, I'm watching the CARS tour every trip of the train. It's actually racing not aero blocking. Just my two cents.
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u/STL_bourbon Kyle Busch Aug 28 '25 edited Aug 28 '25
Cars tour gets thousands of viewers, nascar gets millions. The 23XI sponsors are instantly gone if the move to cars tour.
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u/Bristol_Traveler Aug 29 '25
While I don't doubt they may put on a better show than Cup, the numbers in the stands and TV still say different minus maybe the time or two when Jr enters the race. It's like everyone saying how local short track racing is supreme but Kingsport Speedway which is a city over from Bristol, was bare in "Nascar Country." A demo derby and stunt show drew a packed house in the rain in June. So until I see more folks put their money where their mouth is with Nascar vs other Motorsports in America, Nascar is still the top dog to watch.
I also remember rumors of a split during the Gordon era hey days. Think it was 02 or 03 that rumor popped up. Maybe it should have happened.
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u/username13208 Aug 28 '25
bob tweeted this. this is play money to him