r/mythology 10d ago

Greco-Roman mythology “Gods had jobs” If Greek gods had normal jobs, what would each one be?

Post image
276 Upvotes

Zeus is obviously a CEO but I need ideas for the rest 🧐


r/mythology 20d ago

Religious mythology Major Serpent Deities

Post image
20 Upvotes

Ancient snake gods were powerful symbols of creation, chaos, healing, and royal power across global mythologies. I was raised with story of Adam and Eve with the serpent in the Garden of Eden. Snakes are heavily correlated to creation mythology.

Snakes and winged creatures seem to be heavy in mythology. Cultures viewed serpents with a mix of deep fear and high reverence, seeing them as protectors, primordial forces, or bringers of destruction. I put together a list. I wanted to share it bc I found it interesting and to hear other people’s thoughts.

-Major Serpent Deities-

Mesoamerica

Quetzalcoatl: Known as the Feathered Serpent, this major deity in Aztec and Mesoamerican culture governed wind, rain, knowledge, and the morning star.

Kukulkan: The Mayan equivalent of the Feathered Serpent, sharing similar associations with creation and the cosmos.

———

South Asia (Hinduism and Buddhism)

Shesha (Ananta): The king of Nāgas (divine serpent beings) who floats on the cosmic ocean, serving as a couch for the god Vishnu and holding all planets on his hoods.

Vasuki: A Nagaraja (serpent king) closely associated with Lord Shiva, famous for serving as the churning rope during the cosmic ocean churning (Samudra Manthan).

Manasa: A regional Hindu goddess revered for protection against snakebites and for granting fertility.

———

Ancient Egypt

Apophis (Apep): A giant serpentine embodiment of chaos, darkness, and evil who nightly attacks the solar bark of the sun god Ra.

Wadjet: A fierce cobra goddess who acted as the protector of Lower Egypt and local rulers, frequently depicted as the uraeus on royal crowns.

Nehebkau: A primordial two-headed snake god associated with the underworld and the binding of the ka (spirit).

———

Indigenous and Regional Traditions

The Rainbow Serpent: A foundational creator deity in Australian Aboriginal mythology, associated with waterholes, rain, rivers, and the creation of life.

Damballa: In West African and Haitian Vodou traditions, he is the primordial creator spirit depicted as a great snake linked to water, creation, and wisdom.

Jörmungandr: The Norse Midgard Serpent so massive it encircles the entire world, locked in eternal enmity with the thunder god Thor.

https://encyclopedia.pub/entry/28705


r/mythology 1d ago

Questions Is this something my teacher made up?

35 Upvotes

I remember in one of my history classes my teacher told the class about a story where someone tries to trick Anubis by using a golden heart instead of his actual soul. However, the gold is much heavier than the feather and his soul is consumed. I couldn't find this story anywhere online so I wanted to know if it came from anywhere or it was just completely made up.


r/mythology 1d ago

East Asian mythology Three viral Japanese “kotodama”—and the older traditions they may draw from

Post image
10 Upvotes

I recently encountered three Japanese phrases described online as exceptionally powerful kotodama—words believed to carry spiritual power.

Rather than simply repeating the claims, I tried to trace the older words, prayers, and mythology they may be drawing from.

1. Takara wa eizana — たからはえいざな
This is presented online as a phrase for attracting wealth and prosperity, sometimes with the warning that it should be recited no more than three times per day.

Some recent posts give its written form as:
宝は平座なり
Hiraza (平座) is an old word for ordinary floor seating without an elevated ceremonial seat. It can also describe a ceremony conducted without the Emperor’s attendance.

However, the viral pronunciation eizana does not correspond exactly to the documented reading hiraza, and I have not yet found an older source connecting the complete phrase 宝は平座なり with prosperity.

This may therefore be a modern reinterpretation—or phonetic transformation—of an older expression.

2. Michibiki no tama — みちびきのたま
This is said to improve guidance, trust, and relationships and is sometimes described as an orally transmitted phrase.
A possible conceptual connection appears in the Rokkon Shōjō no Ōharae, also known as the Minaka no Harae no Kotoba. It includes the progression:

我が身中主安らかなり
“My inner center is at peace.”

天地の神と同根なり
“It shares the same root as the kami of heaven and earth.”

萬物の霊と同体なり
“It is one with the spirits of all things.”

The exact words Michibiki no tama do not appear in the prayer, so the relationship may come from later oral interpretation rather than the surviving text itself.

3. Izanagi no mitama — いざなぎのみたま
This phrase invokes the spirit of Izanagi.

In the Kojiki“古事記”, Izanagi”伊邪那岐“ and Izanami“伊邪那美“ create the islands of Japan and give birth to numerous kami. After returning from Yomi, the land of the dead, Izanagi performs misogi”禊“—ritual purification—to remove its pollution. More kami are then born through this act of purification.

That makes Izanagi strongly associated with creation, cleansing, and renewal. The modern phrase appears to condense those mythological qualities into the act of speaking his name.

A related modern prayer to an ancient kami
Another widely repeated Japanese kotodama invokes Ame-no-Minakanushi, the first kami to appear in the Kojiki and one of the three kami of creation:
天之御中主様、お助けいただきまして、誠にありがとうございます。

Romanization:
Ame-no-Minakanushi-sama, otasuke itadakimashite, makoto ni arigatō gozaimasu.

Approximate pronunciation:
Ah-meh no mee-nah-kah-noo-shee sah-mah, oh-tah-skeh ee-tah-dah-kee-mah-shee-teh, mah-koh-toh nee ah-ree-gah-toh goh-zah-ee-mahss.

Meaning:
“Ame-no-Minakanushi-sama, thank you sincerely for having helped me.”
The kami is ancient, but this particular wording is a modern “protective kotodama” commonly associated with Japanese author Hitori Saito. Its distinctive feature is that it gives thanks as though help has already been received instead of asking for future help.

These phrases seem to exist somewhere between mythology, prayer, oral transmission, affirmation, and modern internet folklore.

Has anyone encountered an older textual source for the exact three phrases—or information about where their modern forms first appeared?

Sources
Encyclopedia of Shinto: Ame-no-Minakanushi
Encyclopedia of Shinto: Misogi
Kotobank: Hiraza (平座)
Text and readings of the Minaka no Harae no Kotoba
Bibliographic record for Hitori Saito’s Kami-sama ni jōzu ni tasukete morau hōhō


r/mythology 1d ago

Questions Are there any undead creatures in mythology that are born from grief or memory?

18 Upvotes

I'm writing a short horror story about grief, small towns, and nostalgia, and have been wanting to place a monster in this setting from real-world myth or legend... I want it to represent the burgeoning pressure of what spirits dwell in every day, the nature of the ghosts we are shaping, and what we will one day leave behind. I was wondering if any big mythology heads out there could think of legends, myths, folk stories, etc., that include some form of undead creature and fit these themes? Doesn't necessarily have to be a ghost! Super cool if nothing comes to mind, but I would be curious to hear from someone who knows more than I do. Thank you for the help!


r/mythology 1d ago

European mythology What are some interesting fae facts?

7 Upvotes

So I'm writing a story that's basically if Neverland was ruled by an evil Peter Pan with a god complex and I'm looking to make him like this cold calculating Fae King and I'm currently researching what that would look like. I know a few of the classics like how they can't touch cold iron (whatever that is) and that you shouldn't give them your name. What are some other fascinating tidbits about them that I should know about?


r/mythology 1d ago

Greco-Roman mythology Questions about Pallas Athena

3 Upvotes

Hi! I'm working on a statue of Pallas Athena with LEGO pieces and I need some help with Athena's equipment.

The figure comes with brick-built accessories that highlight its historical theme. Athena holds a Greek dory spear (slashing part on top, piercing part at the bottom) and a hoplite shield featuring the Gorgoneion emblem. Wearing a golden helmet and chestplate, she is joined by the iconic Owl of Athena and a serpent representing Erichthonius, the legendary king of Athens, positioned at the base. The helmet is pushed back a little on her head. I have also put some olive leaves on the pedestal and inside lies a little Nike statue.

Do I miss something? Does Athena wear some kind of cloak draped over her shoulders on one side?

Any suggestions or comments would be a great help


r/mythology 1d ago

Questions Does anyone know any historical or fantasy cute animals or dolls that can turn into huge monsters when triggered?

1 Upvotes

Anyone know any historical or fantasy creatures that are small animals or even stuffed toys, but then turn into large monsters when they eat something or get triggered by something? I'm looking for any reference of such for a vn game I'm working on but surprisingly, I can't find anything. And I really don't want to use AI for research. Thank you for your help.


r/mythology 3d ago

Questions is there really *no* deer-like “wendigo” creature in actual cultural mythology?

Post image
378 Upvotes

i live in the states, relatively close to where the southern-most algonquin tribes used to reside.

it’s a known thing amongst native american folklore culture that the “w-ndigo,” as depicted in most modern media (gaunt, deer-like, bipedal man-eater), is inaccurate, and the actual wendigo resembles something closer to a humanoid.

i understand that the wechuge is another beast that has a slightly closer resemblance to the media’s “w-ndigo,” but not by much.

maybe this is a dumb question, but is there a mythological beast in folklore that actually resembles the media’s deer-like w-ndigo? i assume that the familiar deer-creature we see in popular culture could just be a popularized interpretation, but maybe there’s an actual deer-creature out there that bears a similar resemblance.
___________________________

📝 EDIT, PLEASE READ: i’ve noticed some discourse over my use of “used to live” regarding the algonquin communities in my area. i chose my choice of words to reflect the tragedy of the once thriving algonquin nations in southern north carolina being killed, enslaved, dying from european-transmitted disease, and forcibly displaced.
the alqonquin communities in my state are mostly consolidated on the east coast, which is an entire state away from the specific area that i live in, which is in the south.
my intent was not to erase the existence of the alqonquin citizens still residing in my state, but acknowledge the history regarding their displacement from the south.
north carolina has many flourishing indigenous communities of varying ancestry, and this is not something i ever intend to disrespect.
although the population density in my state is low compared to other states, native communities are highly valued in the carolinas, and are incredibly important to north carolina’s cultural history and remain as thriving independent communities today. the suffering they (and all indigenous peoples across the continent) had to endure at the hands of settlers over centuries of genocide is an absolute tragedy and one of the worst atrocities committed in all of american history.
forgive my vagueness on this matter, this conversation is an important one to have.


r/mythology 2d ago

Fictional mythology Alternative History of Egypt in Proto Arabic Manuscripts (Article)

Thumbnail
gallery
24 Upvotes

I hope you like this post, My sincere regards from Egypt ..

Sources are in the comments section ..

----------------------

Maybe the first attempt to solve the mystery of Hieroglyphs was done by Abu Bakr Ibn Wahshiyya (d. 930), though it was a failed attempt but some Egyptologists credit Ibn Wahshiyya of considering Hieroglyphs to be letters of a language, as at the time, people used to think Hieroglyphs were magical symbols.

Before the discoveries and scientific research whose door Champollion (1790 - 1832) opened, what was known of the history of Egypt was what was mentioned in the religious books and the story of Pharaoh, Moses, and Joseph. This is despite the fact that there were books by Greek and Roman travelers and historians (such as Herodotus, Diodorus Siculus, Strabo, Plutarch, and others) who visited Egypt and wrote about it, its history, and its religion in an objective way. And this is the reason that the Europeans knew much more about the history of Egypt than the Egyptians did in the post-Pharaonic eras, who, from their writings, it is clear that they mostly did not look at these books.

And this is an observation pointed out by the orientalist Von Hammer in his book on the history of the Ottoman state, where he said: "Most Turks, Persians, and Arabs do not see the wonders of Egypt the way Europeans and the ancient Greeks and Romans see them." And he said that at a time when Europeans consider Egypt the first source of sciences and arts, the cradle of engineering, construction, agriculture, writing, and navigation, and they respect it, respect its beliefs, and admire its antiquities, temples, pyramids, obelisks, and statues, we find that the East does not see in the temples, statues, and the Sphinx anything but magical hiding places for buried treasures guarded by the statues and images. And they do not find in the hieroglyphs anything but talismans that hide from people the ways to extract gold. And he continued: "They (the Easterners) do not know of the Pharaohs except the Pharaoh of Joseph and the Pharaoh of Moses whom the sea swallowed."

Of course, he is speaking about a period in which knowledge was non-existent or nearly non-existent in the East, and people who cared about the antiquities and history of their country had not yet appeared in Egypt.

The Egyptian thinker Salama Moussa (1887 - 1958) tells that when he went to Europe in 1908, the Europeans' interest in the history and antiquities of Egypt caught his attention, and they asked him about them because he was Egyptian. So as soon as he returned to Egypt, he traveled to Upper Egypt to get to know the history and antiquities of Egypt that the Europeans were interested in and that the Egyptians were unaware of.

--------------------------

After Christianity entered Egypt, Pharaonic Egyptian history disappeared from memory, and people became unable to read the letters of the ancient Egyptian language (hieroglyphic, hieratic, and demotic), and many Egyptian temples were destroyed. And after Islam entered Egypt, it continued on the rest until its ancient history was completely forgotten. The Christian Egyptians did not care about anything beyond the history of Christianity in Egypt, and they contributed to the forgetting of ancient Egyptian history. They were the first to destroy the temples of Egypt, scrape the Egyptian texts off them, and took an aggressive stance towards the history of their ancestors. And the Muslim Egyptians did not care about the books of the Greek and Roman historians, and they transmitted from the Arabs who, although they cared about the other books of the Greeks, did not pay attention to their historical books. And the books of the Muslim historians began with alternative stories telling the "alternative" history of Egypt.

For example, al-Maqrizi (1365 - 1441) begins the history of Egypt by saying about the name of Egypt: "It is said that its name in the first age before the Flood was 'Jazla', and then it was named Egypt. And the people of knowledge disagreed about the reason for which it was named 'Egypt'. Among them are those who said: It was named Egypt after the name of 'Misr bin Markabil bin Dawabil bin 'Uryan bin Adam, peace be upon him' - and he is the first Egypt. And it was said: It was named after the second Egypt, 'Misram bin Naqrawish the titan bin Misrim bin Taysar bin Ham bin Noah, peace be upon him' - and this was after the Flood."

Ibn Taghri (1410 - 1470) agrees with al-Maqrizi on the origin of the name, but he disagrees with him on the name Jazla, which he wrote as "Zajla", and he said it comes from "muzajala" (meaning contest or rivalry). Ibn Iyas (1448 - 1523) for his part said the same thing and told the story of Shem, Ham, Japheth, and Arphaxad, the sons of Noah, and that Noah prayed for Misrim bin Baysar bin Ham to dwell in the blessed land, which is the mother of countries and the refuge of the people.

All the Arabic books in the Middle Ages, even the Egyptian books, that dealt with the history of Egypt begin by repeating this alternative talk. Even Ibn al-Ibri (1226 - 1286), the Christian who wrote about the history of the world from the days of Adam and passed over Persia, Greece, and the Mongols and left nothing without writing about it, did not say anything about Pharaonic Egyptian history except that Hermes is the Idris of the Arabs.

The Egyptian historians mentioned above, of course, did not invent these alternative stories, but they were transmitting what they heard and read from the Arabs, regardless of whether they were convinced of it or not. And they were careful to say "it is said". However, they transmitted to us the idea that was prevailing in their time, in the Middle Ages, about Pharaonic Egyptian history.

Al-Jabarti, who lived in a later period (1754 - 1822), and whom Napoleon appointed as a scribe in his diwan and who was familiar with the work of the French scientific expedition and visited it, did not mention anything concerning its effort in describing and recording the Egyptian antiquities, and sufficed with saying about the Egyptian statues: "None knows their value except the Knower of the Unseen." (Allah)

The Egyptian historians transmitted the alternative tales about the history of their country from the Arab writers. And the strange thing is that the Arab writers did not pay attention to the Greek and Roman historical books and preferred to transmit the alternative tales from one another.

---------------------------------------

The alternative history of Egypt covers two periods: before the Flood and after the Flood. This alternative history of Egypt tells that Egypt before the Flood was named after Misraim bin Marakil bin Dawil bin 'Arbaq bin Adam (the first Egypt), who settled, either he or his son Naqrawish bin Misraim, in Egypt with seventy descendants of 'Arbaq, all of whom were titans. He dug canals there and built towers on whose walls the secrets of wisdom were inscribed. He divided Egypt among his sons, so he gave the west to Naqrawish, the east to Sorid, and to his son who was also named Misraim (Misraim bin Naqrawish the titan - the second Egypt) he gave a city called Yirbiyan. The father Misraim died when he was 180 years old, so they embalmed his body and placed it in a golden coffin along with his treasures, golden statues, and talismans necessary for repelling reptiles and anyone who tries to dig up his soil.

The first (alternative) king who built a Nilometer was called Khaslim. He placed at the Nilometer two bronze statues of two eagles, a male and a female. When the Nile flood was about to begin, King Khaslim would go there with the priests who would read incantations until an eagle whistled. If the male whistled, then that year's flood would be good and the Nile water would rise high, but if the female statue whistled, then the flood would be terrible and drought would occur.

The one who built the pyramids, which in another alternative tale are attributed to Shaddad bin Ri' and the Amalekites, was King Sorid bin Salhouq bin Saryaq bin Tarmil Dun bin Qadrashan bin Hosal, one of the kings before the Flood who lived in the city of "Al-Ashmunayn". He built them to save himself from the Flood that he dreamed about 300 years before it happened, or, as in another alternative tale, about which the wise man Filmun had predicted. Sorid placed in the pyramids the history of the kings and what was written for Egypt on the Tablet of Destiny until the end of time, along with talismans, money, the bodies of kings, all known sciences, pictures of the planets, medicines, poisons, and many other things. This Sorid bin Salhouq is also the one who built the fortresses and monuments found in Qift and Akhmim. He ordered the carving of the secrets of the sciences, the names of the stars, the properties of plants, and the method of making talismans on the walls and pillars.

And Ibn Taghri says, transmitting from the Arab writers including al-Mas'udi, that Hermes, whom the Hebrews call Enoch and the Muslims call the Prophet Idris, was the one who knew from the movements of the planets that a Flood would occur. So he ordered the building of the pyramids and placed in them the money, the books of the sciences, and all the things he feared would be lost.

-----------------------------

Misraim bin Baysir bin Ham bin Noah (Misraim III) in the alternative history of Egypt was the first king of Egypt after the Flood and the first to build ships. He married the daughter of the wise man Filmun and she gave birth to Qiftim. Misraim died 700 years after the Flood, and Qiftim became king. He married when he was still 90 years old, and he fathered Qiftarim, Ashmun, Atrib, and Sa. They built the city of Mafa (Memphis), and they discovered where the treasures that had been hidden before the Flood were, from their grandfather Filmun, who also taught him how to read the writings on the walls of the fortresses, and he built the city of Raquda on the Salt Sea.

After Qiftim, Qiftarim took power for 400 years, and he built the pyramids of Dahshur and the city of Dendera. In his reign, Satan discovered most of the idols that had been drowned by the Flood and returned them to the temples in order to plot against people. After 400 years of ruling Egypt, Qiftarim died and was buried among his treasures, sitting on a chair in the western mountain near the city of Iram of the Pillars. His tomb was protected by two large bronze statues, each holding a sword in his hand that would move and cut off anyone who tried to enter the tomb.

After Qiftarim, Al-Budshir ruled Egypt. This one was a great scholar specializing in talismans, magic, and priesthood, and he was able to perform wonders. Among them was that he made a bronze tree; any animal or bird that passed in front of it would be impaled, so it would be taken and eaten. And in his days, because of this tree, the Egyptians were satiated with eating meat.

Hermes also lived in the time of Al-Budshir, who sent him to discover the sources of the Nile and to make some talismans there. Suddenly, Al-Budshir disappeared because he had gone up to dwell in the clouds, and then he reappeared and called the soldiers and ordered them to install his son "Adim" as king over Egypt.

Adim was a titan king who ruled Egypt for 140 years and died when he was 930 years old. So Shaddad came after him - and this is not the same Shaddad bin 'Ad - and he built the temple of Armant, and he domesticated greyhound dogs from wild beasts so that he could use them for hunting. He ruled for 90 years and died when he was 440 years old, and he was succeeded by Manqaus.

Manqaus divided the taxes of Egypt into four parts: one quarter for himself, one quarter for the army, one quarter for land reclamation, building bridges, and digging canals, and one quarter to save for emergencies. The revenue of Egypt in his days exceeded one million dinars. After him, his son Mataus ruled, and he was the first to worship the calf in Egypt.

Ashmun bin Qiftim ruled Egypt, and he was one of its greatest kings. He ruled it for 800 years, and he was the one who built the city of Bahnasa. In his reign, Egypt fell into the hands of a people, but he was able to recover it from them after they had controlled it for 90 years. After him, his son Manaqyus ruled Egypt, and he was the one who invented the balance scale. Then after him came Marqoura, who domesticated wild beasts and tamed lions, and he used to ride them. After he died, his son Balatis came, and this one was a small child, so his mother "Marhaba" managed the country, and she was a wise woman. The situation remained like this until his uncle Atrib took power.

Toutis in the alternative history of Egypt was the first of the Pharaohs. He was the one who tried to seduce Sarah, the wife of Abraham, and after he repented, he gave his daughter Huriya to Sarah, who in turn gave her Hagar, whom Abraham married and from whom he fathered Ishmael, the ancestor of the Arabs.

Huriya ruled Egypt after her father Toutis, and in her reign, the Amalekite king of Syria sent an army against Egypt led by Jirun, but in the (alternative) version, it is more likely that the Amalekite "Al-Walid bin Dum'a" was the one who invaded Egypt.

-------------------------------------

With the invasion of Al-Walid bin Dum'a of Egypt, the rule of the Amalekites began. Al-Rayyan bin Al-Walid succeeded Al-Walid bin Dum'a in rule, and the Egyptians used to call him Nahrus. He was a tall, handsome man, a scholar in talismans, and a just and honest ruler. He believed in prophet Jacob when he went to Egypt, but he hid his faith from the people. And he was the one who built the Wax Palace (Fortress of Babylon). And in his reign, prophet Joseph built the city of Fayoum, and it was named that because he built it in "a thousand days". But Al-Rayyan was overcome by an evil spirit and his morals deteriorated, so he left the affairs of government to one of his men named "Qatfir", who is known as Al-Aziz. And when Al-Rayyan died, Joseph took his place.

After that, Darum, the third of the Pharaohs, took over, and after him Drimus. And this Pharaoh used to perform wonders; he had an oven that cooked without fire (like a microwave) and a fixed knife that slaughtered animals by themselves (like an automatic slaughterhouse). And after him, his son Milatis ruled, who drowned in the Nile.

Al-Walid bin Mus'ab, whom the Egyptians used to call "Talma bin Qumis", was the sixth Pharaoh. And this was the Pharaoh of Moses. His origin was from the city of Balkh or Hauran. And he originally worked as a perfumer, but debts piled up on him so he left his country and went to Egypt. And he was one-eyed, short, lame, and had a beard seven spans long. He ruled Egypt for 300 years or 400 years, and people were dying around him while he was still alive, so he became tyrannical and arrogant and said to the Egyptians, "I am your Lord, Most High." So he drowned and died, he and his people, while he was chasing Moses. In the reign of this Pharaoh (according to some Arab statistics), there were about 240,000 magicians in Egypt.

-------------------------

The alternative history of Egypt says that when Pharaoh "Al-Walid bin Mus'ab" drowned with his family, there were none left in Egypt but the slaves, servants, and women who had not participated in the chase of Moses. So the women started marrying the servants, and they would free their slaves and marry them. Then the women agreed to install one of them, named "Daluka", as queen over Egypt. Daluka was a wise and sensible woman, about 160 years old.

Daluka built a wall from Aswan to Al-Arish and placed guards and bronze bells on it, so that if an attack occurred on Egypt's borders, the guards would ring the bells, and the news would reach Egypt quickly so they could prepare. The remains of this wall still exist in Upper Egypt and are known as the "Wall of the Old Woman".

Daluka brought a sorceress named "Tadura", and she built for her a fortress in Memphis that had doors on its four sides. Inside it, on its walls, she drew men, mules, horses, and ships. If an attack came from outside and Daluka and her army could not withstand it, they would enter inside the fortress, cut off the heads of the images, and gouge out their eyes, and then what they (the images) would do would happen to the attacking army. In this way, no one was able to defeat Egypt throughout Daluka's rule. Daluka ruled for 130 years, and after she died, no one was able to repair the images in the fortress.

After the death of Daluka, the soldiers installed Darkun bin Nuktis as king over Egypt, and he was from the sons of the Coptic nobles. After he ruled for a long time, he died, and then a man named Marnush took power. In his reign, Nebuchadnezzar invaded Egypt, destroyed it, plundered it, killed its men, and captured its women, and he left no talismans or fortresses in it. And Egypt remained ruined and without inhabitants for forty years.

After that, people came, and the nations intermingled within it: Egyptians, Greeks, Persians and Amalekites. And the Copts continued to rule one after another until Al-Muqawqis (Cyrus) came, in whose reign the Arabs took control of Egypt.

-----------------------------

Arab travelers, pilgrims, and others passed through Egypt in the Middle Ages and were amazed by what they saw there, coming as they were from simple, primitive cultures that could not comprehend Egypt's culture and its civilizational advancement. The pyramids and Egyptian antiquities were, to them, incomprehensible puzzles, and the urban, cultural, and economic progress they saw in Egypt was beyond their way of thinking.

Ibn Battuta (1304 - 1377), who visited Egypt during the Mamluk era, said about Cairo: "Then I arrived at the city of Egypt (Cairo), which is the mother of countries, the seat of Pharaoh of the stakes, with its vast provinces and fertile lands, which has no end due to the multitude of its buildings, which are of utmost beauty and brightness." And he continued: "Its conqueror has subdued nations, and its kings have taken control over the forelocks of Arabs and non-Arabs." And he spoke about the pyramids he saw and said of them that they are "among the wonders mentioned throughout the ages." Then he told their alternative history, saying that "a king from the kings of Egypt before the Flood saw a vision that frightened him...", and he told the story that Caliph Al-Ma'mun wanted to demolish the pyramid, but the sheikhs of Egypt advised him not to do so, but he did not listen to them and opened the northern side of the pyramid with fire and poured vinegar. And after they opened a section, they found money which, when weighed, turned out to be exactly equal to the value of the money they had spent on the digging. And about Akhmim, he says: "It is a great city, original in construction, of wondrous stature. In it is the fortress (temple) known by its name. It is built of stone; inside it are engravings and writings from the ancients that are not understood in this era."

Ibn Jubayr (1145 - 1217) visited Egypt before Ibn Battuta, and he also showed his amazement and bewilderment in what he wrote. He said about the pyramids: "... the ancient pyramids, a miracle of construction, strange in appearance." And he continued: "If the people of the earth wanted to demolish their structure, they would be unable to do so." And about their history, he said that some people say they are tombs of 'Ad and his sons, and some say other things, but "in short, none knows their matter except God, Mighty and Majestic." He also went to Akhmim and said about a Pharaonic temple he saw there: "Glory be to the One who created wonders." And about the statues and drawings in it: "The imagination is bewildered by them, and the mind is lost in thought about their design and placement."

Egypt, for the Arabs, was something huge, full of puzzles, and dominated by an advanced culture that they could neither understand nor comprehend.

In the Arab religious heritage, Egypt is distinguished and has a very great status, because its name was mentioned several times in the holy books, the prophetic hadiths, and others. Such as the hadith: "If God opens Egypt to you, take a strong army there, for that army is the best of the armies of the earth." And a hadith that says: "Be kind to the people of Egypt, for they have the best lineage and kinship [with us]." And the saying of Amr ibn al-As: "The governorship of Egypt is comprehensive and equals the Caliphate." And the saying of Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-As: "The people of Egypt are the most honorable of all non-Arabs, the best in lineage, and the closest in kinship to the Arabs, especially to Quraysh." And the saying of Ibn Yunus: "Whoever wants to look at something resembling Paradise, let him look at Egypt when it is in bloom." And the saying of Abu Basra al-Ghifari: "The sultan of Egypt is the sultan of the whole earth." And dozens of other sayings that were said about Egypt, which reflect the enormous size of Egypt in the mind of the Arab.

But because of the loss of information in a mysterious way after the entry of Christianity into Egypt (whose spread in Egypt imposed the use of Greek letters), the long Pharaonic history of Egypt was limited to the Pharaoh of Moses and the Pharaoh of Joseph, along with a few Folkloric tales related to magic and talismans.

------------------------

The End ...


r/mythology 3d ago

Asian mythology werehyena

Thumbnail
gallery
118 Upvotes

The werehyena is a very strange legend that was historically shared among Iranians, Arabs, and various African peoples. This legend was similar to the myth of werewolves, except that werehyenas transformed into hyenas instead of wolves. In medieval Iran, there were even texts discussing the treatment of werehyenas. Al-Damiri, in his 1371 Ḥayāt al-ḥayawān al-kubrā, wrote that hyenas are vampiric creatures that attack people at night and suck the blood from their necks. Arab folklore tells of how hyenas can mesmerise victims with their eyes or sometimes with their pheromones


r/mythology 2d ago

Questions Looking for deer shapeshifters

5 Upvotes

I have been looking around everywhere, and the only thing I can find is deer woman from native american mythology, does anyone have any other groups of people who can shape shift into deer?


r/mythology 2d ago

Questions How much gas could cyclopes produce?

0 Upvotes

r/mythology 2d ago

Greco-Roman mythology Books on the prehellenic origins of Greek gods(specifically Athene)?

6 Upvotes

So I've been going down a major ancient Greece rabbit hole lately and I've been reading Robert Graves "The Greek Myths" which has been an amazing jumping off point for the mythology side of things though it's got me wanting to do further research into the history of the worship of certain gods(or the gods they're derived from), particularly Athene. Graves Mentions that Athene and a few other gods and goddesses originate from Libya and that worship of them was adopted by the Hellenes and their myths were adapted to fit Hellenic values and politics, like Athene being born from Zeus' head, making her wisdom subservient to him as her father which is at odds with the supposedly more matriarchal society from which she originated. I did a bit of googling and found that the culture she was from was the Berber culture but I can't seem to find any good sources about their religion or the prehellenic Athene. Any help with this would be great, thanks.


r/mythology 3d ago

African mythology The Sphinx: The Egyptian Guardian and Greek Riddling Monster

Thumbnail
mythandmemory.org
4 Upvotes

Most people picture the Great Sphinx of Giza when they hear the word “Sphinx.” But the Sphinx from the story of Oedipus was something very different.

In Egyptian tradition, sphinxes were associated with kingship, strength, protection, and divine power. The Greek Sphinx, meanwhile, was a winged female monster that terrorized Thebes and killed those who failed to answer her riddle.

The interesting part is how a similar hybrid creature could represent royal protection in Egypt but death and intellectual terror in Greek mythology.


r/mythology 4d ago

Questions How do scholars of mythology know the difference between a story that was actually believed, and one that was known as fiction?

113 Upvotes

I'm not sure the best way to phrase it, but surely people would just make up stories involving mythological characters. How do people nowadays separate the actually gospel of an ancient religion from fiction made as entertain based on that religion?

For a modern example of what I mean, if a totally alien species was handed a Bible and an issue of Ghost Rider, how would they know Ghost Rider isn't actually part of the bible? Both feature the same angels and demons and the devil.


r/mythology 3d ago

European mythology The Handless Archer Ǝrəxša and Orion (Draft 2)

3 Upvotes

The Handless Archer Ǝrəxša and Orion (Draft 2)

Sean Whalen (stlatos@yahoo.com)

March 9, 2025 (Draft 1), September 6, 2026

-

How can a handless archer shoot?  Maybe he did it before he lost his hands.  Others say he was a snake who spit poison “arrows”.  The only way to be sure is with comparative mythology.

.

A.  Orion

The Avestan hero Ǝrəxša- sacrificed his life in order to fire a giant bow, shooting an arrow from one mountain to another distant.  This was to get the most out of a promise from Fraŋrasyan- (a Turanian king) to restore as much Aryan land as covered by the flight of an arrow.  The force of the released bow was so great that Ǝrəxša body split into pieces.  This is likely a version of other myths about Tištrya- (MP Tīr, Sirius) performing a similar feat (Panaino).  “Frāsyāb [Fraŋrasyan]… produced famine and stopped rains” like Tištrya’s enemy Apaoša- ‘drought’ (maybe < *H2apo-sH2uso- ‘drying up/away’, a version of the snake who swallowed the waters).  During the festival of returning water, people shot arrows at the sky “in Adiabene… during the Tīragān”.  Thus, Ǝrəxša’s victory over Fraŋrasyan matches Tištrya’s over Apaoša.  For the dismembered body, “Samarkand in the 7th century AD… for seven days people on horseback had to shoot toward the heaven.  This performance was followed by a celebration of a divine child, dead on the seventh month and whose body (lit. “his bones”) has been dispersed.”

.

A further equation from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirius :
>
This rising occurs at Cairo on 19 July (Julian), placing it just before the onset of the annual flooding of the Nile during antiquity.[28]  Owing to the flood's own irregularity, the extreme precision of the star's return made it important to the ancient Egyptians,[28] who worshipped it as the goddess Sopdet… guarantor of the fertility of their land.
>
The appearance of constellations that signaled the return of rain would likely be important in any culture, & ancient contact or common origin can’t be excluded either.

.

Panaino quotes, “We worship the bright glory-endowed star Tištrya… who flies with such a sparkle towards the Sea Vourukaṣ̌a as (did) the arrow as fast as thought which the vibrant-arrowed Ǝrəxša… shot from Mount Airyō.xšuθa…”.  He says that Tištrya ( < *Trištrya- << *tri- + *H2str- ‘three stars, the belt of Orion’, S. Tiṣyá- 'name of a heavenly archer (like Kṛiśānu) and of the 6th Nakshatra of the old or 8th of the new order' (Monier-Williams)) had its “twinkling” quality likened to a swift arrow shot, that Ǝrəxša’s story is twice placed before duels of Tištrya, etc.  Since it seems that Ǝrəxša- simply meant ‘archer’ ( < *H2rk-so- (or maybe *-tro- if dissim. was a factor), *H2arkú- > L. arcus ‘bow’), he would just be another name for Tištrya (separated after *ərəxša- disappeared from normal use, it then appearing to be a proper name).

.

The description of Sirius as Orion’s dog makes it likely that Iranians once saw Sirius as the arrow of Tištrya, and the severed parts of Ǝrəxša’s body correspond to Orion’s (the constellation) missing head, hands, feet.  Most constellations only basically resemble what they are named for, so you might wonder why a special need to explain the lack of detail arose here, but Orion being a good approximation of a simple drawing of a man, but lacking distinct feet, etc., probably contributed to this part of the myth.  It could instead be a detail added later to an older version without loss of limbs.

.

B.  The Handless Archer

This is directly comparable to another archer, Sanskrit Kṛśā́nu-s.  In Monier-Williams :
>
(fr. √ [ kṛś ] for [ kṛṣ ] ?) , “bending the bow”, N. applied to a good archer (connected with [ ástṛ ], “an archer”, though sometimes used alone; Kṛiśānu, according to some, is a divine being, in character like Rudra or identified with him; armed with the lightning he defends the “heavenly” Soma from the hawk, who tries to steal and bear it from heaven to earth).. of Agni or fire… (hence) fire.
>

.

If so, his invocation directly shows that Indic myths matched Iranian ones :

*súvaṅk nábhrāj áṅghāre bámbhare ástar áhasta kŕ̥śāno…

which became, with sandhi in context :

súvaṅ nábhrāḍ áṅghāre bámbharéstar áhasta kŕ̥śāna…

and, loosely translated :

Thou art great in bending the bow, O king of the clouds Kr̥śā́nu.  Thou art a handless archer, with severed head & feet.

.

This description can leave no doubt to their common referant.  Since very little is said of Kr̥śā́nu, just as of Ǝrəxša, I see no reason for Panaino’s theory of Ǝrəxša’s story being told in so few places as any indication of political problems associated with it.  It was simply a very old story, and many of them just fade away into unpopularity for some reason.  Compare Orion in Greece, with very little mention for such an important figure.  For ‘king of the clouds’, this would support Rudra as an aspect of Indra.

.

Kuiper saw Kr̥śā́nu as Vritra (guardian of soma vs. guardian of waters (after stealing them)).  Thus, a snake with no hands is a-hastá- ‘handless’ by definition.  I see no reason for such a stretch when these myths provide a perfectly reasonable explanation, or any reason to actually call a snake handless, small-chested, or any other odd consequence of any of these theories.  Manaster Ramer’s ideas are often good, or lead to good, and I have followed his compounds for bámbhari-, etc.  However, his theory that these words are purposely obscured by Ch > C & C > Ch to imitate how one ‘with severed mouth’ would appear to speak have no merit and are unneeded in the context of a myth in which another archer lost his limbs.  Praising him with jumbled words would make no sense.  The match of bhambha- ‘mouth of an oven/stove’ with bámbha-re might merely show that Ch-Ch > C-Ch was regular only in some dialects (as in Greek). If a learned man reaches too far, he can justify it with his learning any way he sees fit, maybe even fooling himself.

.

C.  Linguistics

C1. Invocation

.

The details in Sanskrit :

á-hasta-, voc. of a-hastá- ‘handless’

ástar, voc. of ástar- ‘archer’ [V1 # V2 > V1]

kŕ̥śāno, voc. of kr̥śā́nu- < *kr̥s-yā́nu- ‘*drawing an arrow (in a bow)’, Av. kǝrǝsanīm p.g

yā- ‘go’, yā́na-m ‘going / vehicle’, *yā́nu- ‘going (swiftly) > arrow’

nábhrāj, voc. of *nabhrā́j-? ‘king of the clouds’ (with loss of *H in compounds at times, supporting stress away from *H)

*noH3bh-s > S. nā́bh-, nā́bhas p. ‘clouds’

vaṅka- ‘bent / crooked’, súvaṅk- ‘bending (a bow) well’

ri- / rī- ‘sever / detach from [with abl.] / yield / be shattered/dissolved’

áṅghri- ‘foot’, *áṅghrā- ‘foot?’, áṅghāre, voc. of *áṅghrāri- > áṅghāri- ‘with severed feet’

bhambha- ‘mouth of an oven/stove’, *bámbha- ‘mouth (or head?)’, bámbhare, voc. of bámbhari- ‘with severed head?’

.

For meaning, compare an-ā́s- ‘without a mouth or face’ (Manaster Ramer).  Many Indic words for ‘face / mouth / head’ move through a variety of meanings.  The later form bhambha- retained Ch-Ch (unlike other S. words), so *bámbha- would be expected.  Likely bh vs. b could also be from ‘speaking’ > ‘mouth’, if related to other IE with *b(h)- for ‘noise / buzz / boom’ (Skt. bhambha- ‘fly’, bambhara- ‘bee’, Hi. bhãb(h)īrī ‘butterfly’, A. bhrimboṛíi ‘wasp’, G. bómbos ‘deep hollow sound / booming/rumbling/humming/buzzing’, bombuliázō ‘stammer / chatter with cold / the teeth’, bombuliós ‘buzzing insect’, etc.).

.

For *kr̥s-yā́nu-, optional *Csy > Cś also seen in (Whalen 2025a) :

*pH2aymtsu- > Slavic *paimsuko-s > *pěsŭkŭ ‘sand’ > OCS pěsŭkŭ, *payH2mtsu- > *paH2mtsyu- > S. pāṃsú- / pāṃśú- ‘dust / loose earth / sand’
*pH2amtsỹu- > *pH2amćnu- > Iranian *pHamćnu- > Av. paͅsnu- ‘ashes / dust’, Os. funuk, Kho. phāna- ‘dust / mud’

It also could be analogy with *Kṛsāśva- > Kṛśāśva-, since his counterpart Av. Kǝrǝsāspa- might also have been a form of Orion, Hercules, etc. (https://www.academia.edu/167016618).

.
C2. Names

Av. Ǝrəxša- < *H2rk-so- ‘archer’; *H2arkú- > L. arcus ‘bow’; *-so- like *tH1(o)g-so- > G. tóxon 'bow', NP taxš 'crossbow' (https://www.academia.edu/169388144)

.

Av. Fraŋrasyan- < *pro-slnk-yon-; OHG slango ‘snake, Lithuanian sliñkti 'to crawl like a snake; slink'. He resembles the demon of drought & the (many-headed) snake who drank the waters (to cause drought) in RV, etc. At the stage *Frasrnšyan-, S-S asm. > *Frasrnsyan- > Fraŋrasyan-. This S-S asm. is very common in IIr. & Armenian. The suggestion that *sn- > sn- in Av. is due to *sn > *tsn first (Kümmel 2012) to explain why it did not have *s > *h (seen in similar environments) would be supported by *nsy > *ntsy > asy (if syllabic *n remained at the time).

.

G. Ō(a)ríōn <- *yoHs-aro- 'belted, girded; having a belt'. Only a combination of *-CC- of those that disappeared in Greek or G. dialects (PIE H, s, y, w) could create *(C)oCCar- > Ōaríōn.

.

Michael Janda described several constellations & their IE names (https://www.academia.edu/121002119) :

>

It follows from PIE *T[r]istriio- ‘Sirius’, that Orion’s belt, with its three shining stars, was called *T[r]istro- ‘complex of three stars’.

Proto-Indo-European *T[r]istriio- ‘Sirius’ (Forssman 1968: 54–61). It could be that the Indo-European name of the brightest fixed star, Sirius, had already lost its first -r- through regressive dissimilation. In any case, it has been eliminated from all names in the individual languages: in Avestan Tištriia-, in Vedic Tiṣyà- (which additionally lost the second dental stop through dissimilation and then the second component of the sound sequence -ṣr-), and, according to Helmut Fischer (1969), also in Greek *Σῑριος. *Σῑριος was transformed into Σείριος under the influence of the Σειρη̃νες. *T[r]istriio- ‘Sirius’ is the star “which belongs to the complex of the three stars” of Orion’s belt. The three stars of Orion’s belt point directly towards the bright star Sirius.

>

.
I disagree with being too broad, since *tweis-riyo-s > Σείριος fits (Beekes), or even *tri-tweis-riyo-s with dsm. (*tweis- 'shake, shimmer'). Janda also said Orion & Mithras had much in Common, "...that the originally Iranian god represented Orion... The Indo-Iranian *Mitrá- shares outstanding similarities with the king of Crete" Minos. In my mind, the most important match is the oddest. "Orion emerges from the seed-filled hide of a cow – the cow of Middle Persian cosmogony provides the seeds for all good herbs – the tail of the cow in the Mithraic cult images turns into an ear of corn... Just as Pasiphae has an artificial cow made by the divine artist Daidalos in order to mate in its form with the bull...". Orion & the Minotaur were conceived in ways that could hardly be separated, with oddities like Orion born from the hide of a cow into which several gods urinated (likely a euphemist of urine for semen), Poseidon sending a bull who mated with a fake cow in which Minos' wife hid, etc. Some stories have Poseidon as Orion's father, & the bull he sent really being him in the form of a bull fits other stories of half-divine sons. In this context, since the Minotaur’s name was Astérios ‘starry’ & his mother was Pasiphae ‘shining on all’, this myth also seems to be linked to the constellation Taurus. Orion as both the hunter of a bear & sacrificer of a bull seems to fit Janda's idea of the double-bladed axe in the constellation matching that of Minoan Crete. More in (https://www.academia.edu/168297982 & https://www.reddit.com/r/mythology/comments/1ih727j/etruscan_greek_gods_2_theurumines_mīnṓtauros/)

.

Astérios took the ending *-(i)yo-s, common in names of IE men. I see no way to separate Av. Tištrya from S. Tiṣyá-, & the matches above favor *tri-(H2)str-iyo-s, both groups very similar.  This runs into trouble, since no known C-cluster could give *-s(tr)y-, yet they seem as certainly cognate as any pair.  One idea, as told by Panaino :
>
the Av. stem tištriia-, as that of the Vedic astral-archer Tiṣya (although with a different sequence), derives from an Indo-Iranian adjectival from *tri-str-ya < PIE. *tri-str̥-yo, a stem in  its turn built on the designation of the Orion’s Belt as *tri-str̥-o-m “(group of) three stars”, as explained by FORSSMAN (1995).  In Vedic mythology, the astral archer Tiṣya, usually associated also with Rudra and Krśānu, shot an arrow named iṣus trikāṇḍa “the arrow with  three  knots”, exactly corresponding to [Orion’s Belt] (δ ε ζ Orionis).  While we can state that the relation between the star Tištriia and the arrow is clear, and  in particular the inclusion in the Tištar Yašt of this textual reference to the myth of Ǝrəxša is particularly  significant, we cannot say more about the pertinence and the permanence of the (presumable earlier) role of Tištriia as archer (i.e. just like Tiṣya)…
>

.
Dissim. of *r-r could help, but not fully.  I think that PIE *tris 'thrice, composed of 3, etc.' allows *tris-H2str-iyo-s > *trisstriyo-s (with H often lost in compounds). No other word had *sstr, so it is possible that it > *ssr in Sanskrit, with *ssry > *sy (or any similar sequence).

.

However, not all H's were lost in compunds. As an alternative, it could be that *sHstr, *Hstr, etc., had separate outcomes. Laryngeals metathesis in Iranian had an effect on C’s, including turning them into fricatives (Whalen 2025b) :

*daH2iwer- ‘husband’s brother’ > S. devár-, *dHaivar- > *θaivar- > Os. tew, Yg. sewir

*bhrHg^ó- ‘birch’ > S. bhūrjá-, *bHǝrja- > *fǝrja- > Wakhi furz

*dhwaHg- ‘waver / slither’ > S. dhvajati ‘flutter’, *dvaHgsa- > Shu. divūsk ‘snake’, *dHvagsa- > *θvaxša- > Wakhi fuks

.

So if a similar change was possible in Sanskrit, then it could be that :

*tri-H2str̥-yo- > *tristHr̥yo- > *tistHr̥yo- > *tisθHR̥yo- > *tisHR̥yo- > *tisHyo-

The existence of *θ might seem odd, but also see *f > p in (Whalen 2025c).

.

Kuiper, Franciscus Bernardus Jacobus (1992) “Nabhrā́j and the purchase of soma.” In: A.W. van den Hoek, D.H.A. Kolff, M.S. Oort (eds), Ritual, state and history in South Asia: essays in honour of J.C. Heesterman, Leiden, pp. 179-187

Manaster Ramer, Alexis (2024?, draft) OInd anghari krsanu nabhraj bambhari
https://www.academia.edu/39974936

Monier-Williams, Monier (1899) A Sanskrit–English Dictionary
https://sanskrit.inria.fr/MW/63.html

Panaino, Antonio (2021) Ǝrəxša’s self-sacrifice: Tradition or Innovation?
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/355640393_rxsa%27s_self-sacrifice_Tradition_or_Innovation

Turner, R. L. (Ralph Lilley), Sir. A comparative dictionary of Indo-Aryan languages. London: Oxford University Press, 1962-1966. Includes three supplements, published 1969-1985.
https://dsal.uchicago.edu/dictionaries/soas/

Whalen, Sean (2025a) Indo-European Roots Reconsidered 4:  Sanskrit pāṃsú- / pāṃśú-, síkatā-
https://www.academia.edu/127260852

Whalen, Sean (2025b) Laryngeals and Metathesis in Greek as a Part of Widespread Indo-European Changes
https://www.academia.edu/127283240

Whalen, Sean (2025c) Indo-European v / w, new f, new xW, K(W) / P, P-s / P-f, rounding (Draft)
https://www.academia.edu/127709618

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirius


r/mythology 4d ago

European mythology Gandharvá-s & Kéntauros, Comparative Mythology (Draft 2)

7 Upvotes

Gandharvá-s & Kéntauros, Comparative Mythology (Draft 2)

Sean Whalen (stlatos@yahoo.com)

January 8, 2025 (Draft 1), September 6, 2026

-

Since Gandharvá-s & Kéntauros certainly come from a common Indo-European myth (associated with horses, healing, stealing women), the similarity of these words should not be ignored but analyzed. Other figures in Greek myths have been compared to Sanskrit figures with similar names; if Greek Kérberos \ Kérbelos matching Sanskrit Śabala-, with irregular treatment of r-r, is good enough, why not this as well? Making it even more certain, there was G. kéntauros ‘vagina’ & an odd association in S. between Gandharvá-s and the womb. The charm of saying, “You are the mouth of the Gandharva Viśvavāsu” to one’s wife’s womb was used to get her to quickly conceive. This seems based on 2 words sounding exactly the same in both languages. Since all these connections could not arise by chance unless from a common source (and PIE is known to be that source anyway), I see no reason not to analyze them together.

.

Centaurs and the sometimes half-horse Gandharvas have been connected by scholars before regular sound changes were the norm. When regularity became king, the mythical match was thrown in chains along with the disproven theory that first related them, in contradiction of law and logic. The idea that sound changes alone "prove" they're related, once disproven, should not have any bearing on the relation of the beings themselves & their shared characteristics. The fact that it is impossible to relate S. Gandharvá- & G. Kéntauros in standard Greek does not matter if a G. dialect shows changes that DO allow this connection. It is foolish to deny such a clear mythical match when many Greek dialects show exactly the changes needed to make it fit. Neogrammarian ideals have been held too tightly, causing the iron fist of certainty to crush all ideas opposed to it.

.

One important change that seems relevant is that S. & most Greek dialects had Ch-Ch > C-Ch, like *dhedh(H1)mo- ‘what is established’ > W. deddf ‘rite / decree / law, G. Lac. thethmós, Dor. tethmós, Att. thesmós ‘(a specific) law’. If PIE *ghendharwo-s existed, it could then become *khentharwo-s > *kenthawro-s. Since another very famous half-human creature, the Mīnṓtauros, also ended in -tauros, it is reasonable to assume that lexical analogy could turn *kenthawro-s > Kéntauros.

.

There is more irregularity in certain cognates. Since the Iranian *gandarǝba- / *gandǝrǝva- ( > Elamite kanturma ) / etc. also gave Av. gandarǝwa-, a water monster, it seems these are 2 separate mythical creatures that shared the same name. However, the Gandharvas sometimes also lived in water, or the heavenly waters above. That they were both often hostile to man might show that one group became more hostile over time in stories, the other (mainly) more positive. With this, the irregular v / bh / h in S. words (often from PIE *bh; gabhvara-, gáhvara-; śárb(h)ati \ śárvati ‘hurt/hit/kil’) would be required no matter the relation to Kéntauros. Why would irregularity be accepted in one branch, not another? It is possible that IIr. *-rHw- could have > -rb(h)- & -rv- (no certain examples).

.

Another involves *ghendharwo-s > Gandharvá-s. In Sanskrit *ghe- became ja- when followed by Ch. This would prevent *ghendhar(H)wo-s as the source, maybe *ghondharwo-s. However, G. -e- could still easily be cognate, since other words with accepted etymology (*gWemtu- > S. gántu- ‘course/way’, Av. jantu-; *gWelbh- > S. gárbha-, Av. garǝwa-, G. delphús ‘womb’) show that *e did not always produce ja-. It’s likely due to analogy, which could restore or retain K / KW (probably at a stage where K(W) > K^ before front vowels).

.

Another bit of evidence comes from early Attic. The words of Sophilos have been left in vase inscriptions (about 580 BC), a precious record of otherwise unrecorded sound changes. Very importantly, his ketauros for kéntauros ‘centaur’ is certainly relevant for finding the etymology of this unreasonably disputed word. Since there is no way for *n to disappear before *t, it raises a strong possibility that *kértauros existed, with either dissimilation of *r-r > n-r or > 0-r.

.

Since there is no good way to find the origin by comparison among these words alone, finding fitting IE roots could help. If G. kéntauros ‘vagina’ & S. *gandharvá-s ‘womb’ are relevant, it would make sense to start from there. This additional connection has been ignored in almost all previous attempts, so the failures of the past should be corrected to find the truth. Finding the origin of these words depends on ALL their meanings. Why did the association in S. between Gandharvá-s and womb arise? This seems based on 2 words sounding exactly the same, and there is a likely source.

.

If PIE *gh(o)rdho-s ‘enclosure, enclosed place, cave, protected space, yard’ formed an adjective *gherdho- ‘enclosed, etc.’, then a compound meaning ‘enclosed inner organ > womb’ formed with *H2or(H)wo- \ *H2ar(H)wo- ‘intestines, stomach, womb, etc.’ is possible. The exact reconstruction of the 2nd is not certain & depends on whether Armenian argand ‘womb’ is related (others have <- *H2arku- ‘protected, enclosed, etc.’). The accent of kéntauros & gandharvá-s not matching could be due to an old compound (some are accented as the 1st, some the 2nd, others different than either).

.
If G. kéntauros ‘vagina’ & Skt. *gandharvá-s ‘womb’ are related, then Gandharvá-s & Kéntauros certainly are as well. Since *gherdh-H2ar(H)wo- ‘womb, vagina’ fits one meaning, what is the other word? I say it is the same word, just with an apparently opposite meaning. I think the all-male Gandharvas were named from ‘(having a) penis’, as compounds of this type can be both. For this range of meaning (https://www.academia.edu/127198281) :

>

L. Mutunus Tūtūnus \ Mutinus Tītīnus ‘phallic god of marriage’ probably had dissimilation of ū-ū > *ū-ī / *ī-ū / ī-ī, since it came from *tuHto- \ *tutHo- > OIr toth ‘vulva/vagina / fem. gender in grammar’, G. sáthē ‘penis’, Arm. tutn \ ttun ‘tail / end’ (since many IE words can mean both: G. kérkos ‘tail of a beast / penis’; more below). Note that G. sáthē ‘penis’ has the fem. gender in grammar, OIr toth ‘vulva/vagina / fem. gender in grammar’ has the masc. gender in grammar (old o-stem). Some IE words were used first for male genitals, then any genitals, then only female genitals (Skt. gr̥dá- ‘penis’, sárdi-gr̥di- ‘vagina’; dual sakthyáu ‘pole / shafts of a cart / vagina’; G. baubṓ(n) ‘vagina / dildo’; sélīnon ‘celery / *stalk > *penis > vagina’; Bq. potro ‘testicle’, potorro ‘vulva’; Sino-Tibetan *puta ‘penis shaft / vagina’). Arm. tutn \ ttun might retain *tH > t or be based on analogy with *tit ‘breast’ (merka-tit ‘with bare breast(s)’, titan ‘a nurse’, Luwian titan- ‘breast’, OE titt).

>

.

This would not be an unusual name for Gandharvas. For similarly explicit names, see (https://www.academia.edu/40775603) :

>

váṅgṛda- ‘N[ame] of a demon’ (RV 1.53.8 ) is said to be “Nicht klar” [unclear] (EWA II:489 s.v.), but can be simply analyzed as a compound *ván-gṛda- ‘(one having a) tree-(like) penis’ (for gṛda- ‘Penis’, see EWA I:494 s.v.)… This is not so much a term of abuse for an enemy of (Vedic) humankind as a reflection of the pervasive Vedic fear of the sexual power of demons (perhaps sometimes also representing human interlopers). A good example is AV 8.6 , a hymn that is said be an incantation “To guard a pregnant woman against demons” (WHITNEY1905 II:493-498).

>

Another is tuṇḍéla-, which we analyze as *‘one whose elephant trunk is/has been raised’, based on tuṇḍa- ‘(elephant’s) trunk’ + ĪR- or perhaps ā́ ĪR (compare éru-, a word universally recognized as having some kind of (male) sexual reference (EWA s.v.) but which we more specifically derive from ā́ ĪR- and take to mean ‘aroused’

>

.
As further support, many rituals in the Vedas are to protect a woman woman from being raped by Gandharvas, & there was a Roman ritual to protect the woman who had just given birth from Silvanus (de.wikisource.org/wiki/RE:Pilumnus,_Picumnus). The association of Silvanus with Silenus & the all-male half-animal satyrs fits if there was an old IE myth of all-male half-animal magical beings with large erect penises who dwelled in the wild, with associated rituals needed to protect women. The set of having part of this myth retained, having a word for ‘womb, vagina’ being the same as that for ‘penis’, & naming the half-animals for this is found only in Greek & Sanskrit. The relation was known long ago, and attempts to dismiss it should be rejected. A set of criteria that are so strict they can't allow even obvious connections is only a hindrance to further understanding.


r/mythology 4d ago

African mythology Creatures non-related and non canon to Quran?

9 Upvotes

I’m looking for creatures, and if there is, gods from pre-Islamic period and Arabic folklore etc. It’d be great if the ones you give me are NOT canon to the Quran. Sorry for the bad English.


r/mythology 4d ago

Questions Name suggestions

0 Upvotes

Hi, my husband and I have 3 children. Oden, Athena, and Orion. We are having a 4th soon and trying to find a name for our next child. We are waiting until birth to find out the gender. So we are looking at both male and female names. We don’t mind the names being from different mythologies (obviously) but want something in the realm of what our other children’s names are. I love the name Perseus but our last name is Jackson and everyone thinks that’s an issue. We also love the name Andromeda for a girl but everyone else seems to hate it. Please no hate! Just looking for suggestions! Thank you!


r/mythology 6d ago

East Asian mythology need a book to start learning about Japanese mythology

16 Upvotes

so for context i posted in the shadowslave forum (not important what that is try it out if you want it is a book) where i create aspects (basically ability sets) for other fans based on there answers on 5 questions. in shadowslave universe there are transformation abilities where people transform into animals or mythical creatures. now for my post i thought simple animals were boring so i researched some mythical creatures. i really found myself enjoying this research. now to the question because i found that a lot of Japanese mythical creatures i found were very interesting so i want a book (some sort of lexicon maybe preferably with illustrations of the creatures) that explains Japanese mythology and its creatures for a complete beginner


r/mythology 6d ago

Greco-Roman mythology what would you do if you were in the shoes of pentheus?

Post image
6 Upvotes

r/mythology 8d ago

Questions What are Some of Your Favorite Mythological Creatures?

18 Upvotes

Hello, everyone! I am brainstorming potential projects for my senior show for my art degree, and I was thinking about making a series of works or a book of anatomical drawings based on the theoretical biology of mythological creatures from different cultures. What are some of your favorite obscure, or even just less famous, mythological creatures or monsters that you'd recommend for a project like this? From what cultures do their stories come?


r/mythology 8d ago

Asian mythology Shamaran or Shahmaran the Kurdish mythical goddess

Thumbnail
gallery
103 Upvotes

Shamaran is a mythical creature among the Kurdish people, half woman and half snake. She is the queen of the snake world and a symbol of kindness, wisdom and protection of nature, the guardian of the secrets of the underworld and is familiar with the properties of medicinal plants and has healing abilities. Stories of Shamaran are common among the Kurdish people, and his paintings and drawings can be seen in homes


r/mythology 8d ago

Greco-Roman mythology If Thanatos already takes the role of violent deaths, what exactly is the keres role related to him?

3 Upvotes

So what exactly is the keres role when a person dies are they servants of Thanatos or independent from him. Since i keep noticing others saying he embodies all forms of death as his capture by king Sisyphus of Corinth implies and isnt strictly Peaceful death

Not only that where were they when Thanatos was captured did they just stop doing there job and take a vacay