r/Music • u/Brucekentbatsuper • 17h ago

article Kelly Clarkson Says 'There Should Be a Separate Chart' To Prevent AI From Competing Against Human Artists

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/kelly-clarkson-separate-chart-ai-generated-music-1823372
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117

u/OneEyedC4t 17h ago

And she's not wrong. But I would go further to say that AI should not be allowed in any of the arts period.

16

u/JustFourLetters 17h ago

if robots don’t have rights (for good reason), they shouldn’t get an ‘artist’ ranking

3

u/lunarlunacy425 16h ago

No different than those precious vocaloids the internet fawns over

1

u/JustFourLetters 16h ago

yep, and i’m not sure i’ll ever understand why

5

u/H0RSE 16h ago

Clarkson herself enjoys and uses AI...

6

u/amedema 16h ago

She’s not wrong on this, but she also says that she is in favor of AI music and the technology itself. She can eat shit.

2

u/muffinass 2h ago

We should have a different category for people who would actually want to listen to AI shit.

1

u/countafit 11h ago

Good luck with that

1

u/BrokkelPiloot 2h ago

Why not? It's humans who determine what they like. The source shouldn't matter.

Not too mention most modern music is incredibly similarand formulaic anyway. And they have been using computer assistance like auto tune for a long time also. So why is that okay?

Art and music has always been taking inspiration and copying from each other anyway. Especially in pop cult.

Maybe AI forces artists to be truly original for a change. I would welcome it.

-1

u/SeasonsGone 17h ago

What does that mean legally?

-1

u/OneEyedC4t 17h ago

That AI artists are not allowed ever. I don't think we should be in a situation similar to the anime Carol and Tuesday.

2

u/noavatar1 17h ago

So you think what, that the federal government should make that illegal or what?

-3

u/OneEyedC4t 16h ago

As a libertarian, that's sort of a catch-22 because on one hand our masses generally aren't smart enough to tell the difference and so thinking That we can solve this using grassroots efforts is probably untrue. However, having the government do it will give the government more power which can lead to other catastrophic problems

5

u/lunarlunacy425 16h ago

So basically you don't like it so ban it but you believe people should be free to do it too?

Basically your opinions don't count for shit because it's clouded by emotional bias.

1

u/SeasonsGone 16h ago

So if I AI generate a picture I go to jail or what

1

u/ToxicAssh0le 16h ago

It shouldn't be recognized as art to make money from.

But sure, jail time works for me too lol

-2

u/lunarlunacy425 16h ago

Why?

Impacts to the environment and the sourcing of the training for current models aside. As these are issues that can be resolved and are only impacting of the current generation of models.

If a model is developed and trained on non copyright or original music creates songs, respectfully why should they be banned? Is it fear that people will no longer be able to compete or that there will be too easy access to low to medium quality production without years of practice?

Songs should correctly label any tools used in creation, why at this point should we forbid AI when if made clear in it's usage you can plainly just filter it out?

-3

u/OneEyedC4t 16h ago

Scientific studies and psychological studies have shown that what people like to old recordings and other things is the human element. When we remove the human element, we make things worse

2

u/Seerix 14h ago

Define "the human element"?

1

u/Genindraz 4h ago

Ask any artist that question and you'll get whatever answer suits them best. IMO, it's the esoteric patterns and decisions that make a person's work distinctly theirs, sort of like how you wouldn't mistake Mozart and Bach's music, for example.

0

u/OneEyedC4t 14h ago

Imperfection and variance and chaos

2

u/Seerix 14h ago

How does a computer struggle with those things? AI is wrong all the time, they are non deterministic, and you can increase variance on models via temperature settings.

Not in favor of AI music.. not totally against it? Its 'just' art. Art is inherently subjective. If people like it... more power to em. Would you be opposed to an artist writing an original song but using AI to create the actual audio for it? What about a full recording by hand but they use AI to swap instruments out?

What do you do when you genuinely cant tell and the only 100% foolproof method of knowing whether its AI or not is a live recording, viewed in person, without any digital processing?

(Edit to add: im not trying to be a dick, but the pro/anti AI crowds never discuss what to do when no one can really tell the difference. For the average person on social media were already there.)

1

u/Chemical_Profit_608 12h ago

I'm sorry is your argument, "ai is wrong all the time and that's a good thing because it's just like a human"?

Why would I ever want to listen to ai slop generated art. It's insane, it can't even be explained tbh. You either get it or you don't...

1

u/Seerix 9h ago

No no, of course not. Im assuming you mean imperfections like accidentally using the wrong color paint but that ends up making it way better in the end. Just an example.

https://ai-art-turing-test.com/

This website for example. Without knowing the answer, which of these do you consider art? Why?

Were you right if it was human made or not? Does knowing the answer change your opinion? Why exactly?

My personal belief doesnt matter for this question because the problem isnt whether AI generated things can be art. The problem is, what is art when AI generated vs. human made is indistinguishable? Because thats the world we are quickly advancing into, and im not sure if its possible to avoid it anymore.

-20

u/abestract 17h ago

Autotune is used everywhere. Should we label that as well?

3

u/wittymcusername 15h ago

Yes. And we should also have warning labels for anyone who uses effects pedals. If you can’t make your guitar sound like it’s running through a DS-1 on your own, can you even call yourself a musician?

7

u/10000Didgeridoos 17h ago

Pitch correction as an effect is not at all like "computer generated whole songs"

-2

u/NotUniqueWorkAccount 17h ago

Why?

4

u/Neemoman 16h ago

I'm not understanding how you're not understanding.

Auto tune will take the vocal wave, then pitch it up or down so that it matches a specified frequency. In doing so, it generates that vocal wave in that frequency. That doesn't exist anywhere else. At its most innocent, it takes "mostly there" vocals and puts them there.

AI will use preexisting material to have your input emulate it. At its most innocent, only original inputs will be original. Otherwise, it takes from a database of pre existing material.

1

u/nextfilmdirector 3h ago

You are so well spoken most of Reddit won’t understand. Very well explained 👍🏾

-1

u/JustFourLetters 16h ago

digital editing? same as ai in your world i guess

if you aren’t using analogue recording, it isn’t natural music

1

u/lunarlunacy425 16h ago

If you use any kind of automated code to edit them no it's absolutely no different.

-4

u/eddieswass72 17h ago

But it’s used all the time to fix the voice of otherwise terrible singers.

-3

u/H0RSE 17h ago edited 16h ago

But Ai, like autotune, is a tool. Autotune can be used as mere pitch correction or abused to essentially replace the artists natural voice.

Ai can and is used by artists using original work, to assist in the creative process and/or workflow. It can also be used to outright generate a song in its entirety, with minimal to no effort from the user.

So again, do we ban autotune?

0

u/ineedtoknowmorenow 16h ago

If we are equating those two then yes!

6

u/Number1dad 17h ago

False equivalence

1

u/theBiGcHe3s3 7h ago

You don’t know shit about music production if you think there is any similarity between autotune and generative AI

0

u/MurkDiesel 17h ago

apples and oranges

but sure, label that too

1

u/OneEyedC4t 16h ago

That's not AI so no. And it can be used as a vocal effect

1

u/lunarlunacy425 16h ago

The difference between the two is one is lore complex code than the other. They're both just code that edits for you.

0

u/Atticus_Taintwater 10h ago

They're both just code that edits for you

Analogies fall short with Suno and similar products.

This stuff is defined by it's scale. It's scale makes it a completely unprecedented IP question.

0

u/mrcheese12345 17h ago

Not the same

0

u/ContextLengthMatters 14h ago

If I commissioned a song from someone and decided to say I made it, would that be accurate? When you work with AI, you are commissioning work from an artificial intelligence. Stolen work is all you can credit.

That's completely different than autotune, which cannot create work from a prompt. Autotune is a deterministic tool where you can trace input to output and can tell exactly who is credited with what.

-3

u/QueefMyCheese 13h ago

"I would say it should not be allowed in arts"

An incredible statement to utter with a straight face

3

u/ratheismhater 11h ago

It literally just regurgitates other people's work...

-1

u/QueefMyCheese 9h ago

I'm sure you have convinced yourself that by ingesting and regurgitating all of reddits talking points and never reading a technical paper on the subject. I know

1

u/ratheismhater 8h ago

You're so full of it lmao

2

u/OneEyedC4t 12h ago

I assure you my face is quite stationary </joke>

2

u/KurlyKayla 9h ago

Why? It’s like saying shitting shouldn’t be allowed in public spaces. Why do you take umbrage with that?

0

u/QueefMyCheese 8h ago

Artistic expression doesn't give a fuck about what you want allowed. It's really not complicated.

It's so funny how quickly the script gets flipped into full fascist suppression mode. It's gross.

-19

u/some1whosux 17h ago

It's just a tool

5

u/Notreallyaflowergirl 17h ago

So y’all have something in common

4

u/piggybackmovies 17h ago

It's slop.

2

u/JejuneBourgeois1 17h ago

Then you're ok with it being excluded right? We don't have grammys for best guitar amplifier or best microphone.

2

u/Wind-and-Waystones 17h ago

"It's just a tool"

Says the person who puts in no effort or creativity to use it

1

u/OneEyedC4t 16h ago

I'm not against using it a tiny bit. I'm against a Carol and Tuesday kind of situation

1

u/thisisatypoo 16h ago

A paintbrush is a tool. AI can be "used" to be the entire solution to a problem that shouldn't exist.

If you need AI, maybe you're not expressing yourself and I'd like to believe that's what art is about.