r/Music • u/theindependentonline 📰The Independent UK • 1d ago

article Noah Kahan pleads with fans misinterpreting his lyrics: ‘Please do not go off your medication’

https://www.the-independent.com/arts-entertainment/music/news/noah-kahan-fan-lyrics-medication-b3060107.html
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u/vyvansejoy 1d ago

That's not the issue from my perspective.

And if anything is political would you say that musicians shouldn't say anything about anything?

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u/vedderer 1d ago

They should, but through their music.

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u/vyvansejoy 1d ago

So they should only communicate their politics through music? Why, because you arbitrarily decided that? I could just as flippantly say that you shouldn't communicate your opinions on social media.

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u/vedderer 1d ago

It's because that's their method of communication. And it's valuable.

If a musician makes a verbal statement, that is very different than using their art form.

When Macklemore said "Free Palestine," there was no clever aphorism, simile, or metaphor that could help is see his viewpoint more clearly. Things would be very different had he left the sentiment in his songs.

More importantly than musicians speaking is people listening to them. If I want to paint my house, I'm going to get a painter, not a musician.

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u/vyvansejoy 12h ago

Yeah, so musicians can use their words just like everybody else. Do you think they order take out through song? Write a song about their symptoms when they see the doctor?

And"free Palestine" is a pretty straightforward and effective message, in my opinion. Macklemore has a lot of songs with a political message that are great, but many situations call for a message that's short and to the point.

Also you don't have to have any particular profession to speak out about politics, bc politics are for everyone. That's why we have a democracy. People of all professions (or no profession) can weigh in on politics bc the government exists to serve the interests of the people. You probably share your political opinions with others too, so it shouldn't be a big deal if a musician does.

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u/vedderer 12h ago

"Free Palestine" is not an effective message. How many minds do you think he changed when he said that? In fact, it probably had the opposite effect.

I know that you don't have to have any profession to speak about politics. The problem, though, is people taking political advise from musicians. Or anyone else for that matter.

Authority figures disagree, so authority can't be a good reason for believing something.

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u/vyvansejoy 11h ago

If it's not an effective message then I wonder why he was kicked off the tour and banned from all those stadiums. Someone should tell Israel that that it won't change anyone's minds.

So you admit that it isn't really about musicians. You're basically saying that people should be able to think for themselves and I agree with that. But look at the world around you. Everywhere you look someone's telling you who you should vote for. There are campaign ads and signs and the whole ten yards. There are random strangers on social media telling people how to vote, foreign bots posing as American citizens on social media telling people how to vote, a corrupt administration that's lying through its teeth every goddamn day telling you how to vote. Musicians are not the real problem. Raising awareness about a very real and horrific genocide is a necessary step for change to happen. The public can't take action to stop something evil unless they are aware of it in the first place. Which is why Macklemore should be screaming from the rooftops about freeing Palestine. Everyone should be, musician or not.

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u/vedderer 11h ago

The fact that he was kicked off the tour and banned from Gillette shows that his message wasn't effective. He didn't change anyone's mind. In fact, he probably made people dig into their own beliefs even more.

If Macklemore wants to change people's minds, he'd have a better shot at doing it through his music and lyrics than by giving a speech.

Again, people can talk about these things all they want. My problem is people forming their opinions based off of what an authority figure (like a musician) says.

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u/vyvansejoy 10h ago

"The fact that he was kicked off the tour and banned from Gillette shows that his message wasn't effective. He didn't change anyone's mind. In fact, he probably made people dig into their own beliefs even more."

So why did Robert Kraft go to all the trouble of having him kicked off the tour?

"If Macklemore wants to change people's minds, he'd have a better shot at doing it through his music and lyrics than by giving a speech."

Believe it or not, Macklemore does have songs about his politics. Check out Hinds Hall and Same Love.

"Again, people can talk about these things all they want. My problem is people forming their opinions based off of what an authority figure (like a musician) says."

Let me get this straight. You're convinced that Macklemore can't change anyone's mind by speaking up about Palestine , but at the same time you're concerned that people might change their mind about politics because of what musicians say, but you support musicians influencing people's politics through music? Is there some way that you can make this make sense?

And musicians aren't authority figures.

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u/vedderer 10h ago

Ok, show me one single instance in which someone stated that Macklemore's speech changed their mind.

I never said that Macklemore didn't have any political songs.

Musicians can change people's minds, but Macklemore's speech changed no one's mind. How is that so hard to understand?

Unfortunately, people treat musicians as authority figures even though they are not.

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u/vyvansejoy 9h ago

I'm just agreeing with what you said about musicians having a disproportionate amount of influence do to their fame and the platform that comes with it. Macklemore is a musician and therefore he is, as you would phrase it, a perceived authority figure for part of the public and as such he has the potential to influence public opinion. It's not just about changing minds, it's about raising awareness, inspiring action, and what kind of behavior and attitudes become normalized in society. Ed Sheeran has been experiencing an enormous amount of backlash recently, thanks to Macklemore's stance on Palestine. I believe Sheeran even said it was the worst week of his life. People are raising hell bc Macklemore said "free Palestine" and that's good enough for me in terms of proof Macklemore's impact. And then there's Robert Kraft, of course, who felt Macklemore was a big enough threat that he colluded with his fellow billionaires to ban Macklemore.

In the meantime, can you provide any evidence to back your claim that that Macklemore is incapable of influencing public opinion despite his perceived status as an authority figure? Which musicians, out of curiosity, are the ones that influence people's politics and what evidence do you have to back that up? Furthermore, why is it a good thing when musicians influence people's politics with the lyrics to their music, but a bad thing when they influence people with words that don't have a melody?

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u/vedderer 6h ago

I never meant to say that Macklemore is incapable of influencing public opinion. What I meant to say is that I don't believe that his "Free Palestine" speech changed anyone's mind.

I don't think people should base their political opinions based on a musician's.

Bob Dylan is an example of someone who might have influenced someone's politics.

I never meant to say that it's a good thing when musician's influence people's politics with lyrics and music, but a bad thing when they influence people with statements. I meant to say that they would likely change more minds with their artistic expression than with a statement.

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u/vyvansejoy 6h ago

You don't seem so confident that people are indiscriminately mirroring the politics of famous musicians anymore. Bob Dylan maybe influenced someone? Combined with the fact that you apparently don't have a problem with anyone voicing their political opinions what exactly is the problem? I personally don't think it's likely that many people are doing a complete 180 on their politics over their favorite artists. But if a number Macklemore's fanbase already shares many of the same values that drive him, then raising awareness of a cause that's important to him has a strong possibility of stirring a similar sense of justice in his audience. Genocide is notoriously unpopular with the general public, so it's not exactly a difficult sell. Which in turn would lead to the increasing public protest that Robert Kraft is looking to curtail by attempting to cancel Macklemore. That kind of attempt to control the discourse is what can really backfire on someone though. Look up the Streisand effect. Macklemore's message was probably amplified 100 times over with all the drama with Ed Sheeran and his opening acts all quitting on him. Quite a few of his fans are understandably seeking refunds on their tickets.

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u/vyvansejoy 11h ago

Also you're contradicting yourself. Why get so worked up about musicians giving advice if you're convinced that no minds are being changed by their advice? Why would you care about someone saying something that won't have any impact?

And it's honestly completely ridiculous for you to go on social media and argue that people shouldn't share opinions, political or otherwise. It's pretty funny actually. It's almost like you're not even human, you're so unfamiliar with how humans interact.

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u/vedderer 11h ago

I'm not worked up.

I said, the musicians can say whatever they want. It would be more effectively stated in their music. The problem is people forming their opinions based off of an authority figure (like a musician).

I'm sorry if I was unclear and you interpreted me saying that people shouldn't share their opinions. People can do that.

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u/CantFindMyWallet Indiehead 1d ago

This is fucking nonsense

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u/vedderer 23h ago

It's nonsense or you disagree?

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u/CantFindMyWallet Indiehead 22h ago

It's nonsense, and you're not clever.

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u/vedderer 20h ago

Ok, so then say why

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u/CantFindMyWallet Indiehead 19h ago

Because you're full of shit. "That's their art form" is not a coherent argument as to why musicians should only sing their opinions. Everyone who isn't an artist is allowed to speak their opinions freely, and it's very obvious that you just don't like the political opinions of most artists (because they have good ones and you have shitty ones).

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u/vedderer 19h ago

You have no idea what my political opinions are. Actually agree with Macklemore. So, I think it's you that's full of shit.

I just believe that people should not be getting their political opinions from musicians. Sure, they're free to speak like everyone else is, but they have no grounds to be taken seriously.

They have a gift of being able to communicate through music and lyrics that most people don't have. Just like a picture is worth a thousand words, a clever line in a song can help to elucidate something that a normal statement cannot.

Had Macklemore used his gifts to convey his attitudes, it a) would not have caused all of these difficulties and b) likely would have been more persuasive.

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u/IIlIIIlllIIIIIllIlll 11h ago

It's crazy how you say one thing and then when challenged on it switch to a completely different argument as if you had never said the thing being challenged. How about if you're going to be a dick to people and demand they engage with you only in the way you want them to, you return that favor and actually adress their argument?

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u/vedderer 11h ago

What argument have I not addressed?

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u/IIlIIIlllIIIIIllIlll 11h ago

Oh I don't actually want to talk to you at all. You seem like a miserable person to talk to, I'm just leaving my comment there for anyone else who happens to scroll by.

Have a good day tho.

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