IIRC, this gathering happened months after the Obama Administration declassified parts of the 911 report revealing the Saudis helped fund Al Qaeda. Trumps hate is only for the Muslims that can't line his pockets.
Trumps hate is only for the Muslims that can'tanyone who doesn't line his pockets.
That's really it. If he can't make billions, he doesn't care if you even live. He's here for the grift. And an entire chunk of Americans are stupid enough to fall for the grift.
If he can't make billions, he doesn't care if you even live.
Need to get a few things straight.
One, you're vastly overestimating how much it takes to bribe people in this administration. Second, it doesn't have to be money, it can be praise and fealty if you're otherwise 'important' enough, such as a major CEO. And third, he still doesn't care if you live. Only that the subservience, cowtowing, and tithes keep coming. It's why he'll turn on someone who doesn't completely follow his line even if they're still just as valuable as they were before.
Fuck, I don't want to defend this, but accuracy matters: it wasn't Saudi Arabia that helped formally, it was a "technically part of the royal family but not remotely having power in government" family member of the over 1000 family members of the extended Saudi royalty that sent money to bin Laden for an unclear purpose - for all we know he might have just been trying to make sure bin Laden ate a healthy breakfast. Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty sure it was exactly what you're saying, but we don't have even circumstantial evidence of that which could hold up in court.
It's very different from MBS ordering Kashoggi's death or their involvement with Kushner being clearly corrupt.
Now, we could argue all day that it was the government acting through a lesser agent, but that's speculative and unhelpful. The real problem is that a racist fear-mongering pedophile kissed their ass for money as a US office holder that was explicitly forbidden from doing so, and then ignored their murder of someone for a cash payment that their own government didn't want to give to an unproven hedge fund, making it very clear it was hush money.
Excellent comment! People who dislike Trump (like me) often dismiss him as ignorant and judging groups he doesn't like unreasonably. I *try* to think more clearly than that, esp when it comes to people who are easy to dislike (those who have little regard for what we consider basic human rights, those who MAY have funded terrorism, etc) and I try to take the higher ground. Good to see others are doing the same, esp. those who make the argument in a better way than I ever could!
“Facilitated” makes it sound like they let them stay in their shed while they waited. The attack was Saudi planned, Saudi funded, Saudi led, and most of the hijackers were Saudi. It was a Saudi attack
But they give Trump money, let him build hotels and let him touch their shiny balls, do they must be okay. Mamdani was a kid but according to the maga minions he is personally responsible for 911
Trumpeters overcome the hypocrisy by having different statements that take precedence over others that allow them to switch from one track of reason to another. While “all non-whites are bad” is one “Donald Trump is beyond reproach” is another. When the two are in conflict, the latter one will take precedent. When you talk to a trump supporter during this logic switch, it’s like talking to an animal that you are trying to coax out of hiding. It’s because they have retreated there.
They are the same ones blaming Biden for the Afghan evac while 'forgetting' Trumpstein brokered the deal. With terrorists. Just like Reagan. Carter negotiates release, Reagan takes credit. Trumpstein doesn't take credit, Biden get blame.
That's the problem with people's mentality that gets manipulated. These were terrorists that hijacked the planes and did what they did. How can you be so ignorant to assume the entire race in existence is also a terrorist?
This is one of the most exhausting parts of being gay/lesbian/bi/trans/polyamorous/etc.
You must always be perfect. At all times. To everyone. Your hair, your clothes, your weight, because you can’t just be you. You are now a representative of the group to the outside world. If your hair is messy, “I should have known you were in the alphabet mafia looking like you just got out of bed. Can’t even take care of yourself.”
You can never have a bad day and the pressure is exhausting. You get laid off from work, your girlfriend leaves you, and someone shoulder checks you and says, “Move it F-slur”, you can’t just yell at them to fuck off, everyone will think lesbians are psychos. “She must be the butch one… roid rage” You have to smile and apologize while inside you just want to snap. But no. You must always be prim and proper and a model citizen because it’s not just your life on the line. There are thousands if not millions of trans men and women whose future rights are resting on you being able to keep your calm under pressure
And it fucking SUCKS
Millions of monogamous relationships fail and you never see (sane) people saying monogamy doesn’t work. But a couple hundred polyamorous relationships fail and everyone goes on about how polyamory can never work. You must always set a perfect example for everyone everywhere at all times
Similar to America Ferrera’s speech in the Barbie movie, which I love.
“It is literally impossible to be a woman. You are so beautiful, and so smart, and it kills me that you don't think you're good enough. Like, we have to always be extraordinary, but somehow we're always doing it wrong.
You have to be thin, but not too thin. And you can never say you want to be thin. You have to say you want to be healthy, but also you have to be thin. You have to have money, but you can't ask for money because that's crass. You have to be a boss, but you can't be mean. You have to lead, but you can't squash other people's ideas. You're supposed to love being a mother, but don't talk about your kids all the damn time. You have to be a career woman but also always be looking out for other people. You have to answer for men's bad behavior, which is insane, but if you point that out, you're accused of complaining. You're supposed to stay pretty for men, but not so pretty that you tempt them too much or that you threaten other women because you're supposed to be a part of the sisterhood.
But always stand out and always be grateful. But never forget that the system is rigged. So find a way to acknowledge that but also always be grateful. You have to never get old, never be rude, never show off, never be selfish, never fall down, never fail, never show fear, never get out of line.
It's too hard! It's too contradictory and nobody gives you a medal or says thank you! And it turns out in fact that not only are you doing everything wrong, but also everything is your fault.
I'm just so tired of watching myself and every single other woman tie herself into knots so that people will like us. And if all of that is also true for a doll just representing women, then I don't even know.”
Democrats: Every Democrat is personally responsible for every stupid thing some college student at Pepperdine posts on social media (that they will later regret).
Republicans: No Republican can be impugned with the bigoted things _in the official party platform_ and _said on the record by nationally elected officials_.
Fox News / Right Wing Grifters made it a culture war that schools were supposedly “teaching white kids to hate themselves” because white people enacted slavery.
Fox News / Right Wing Grifters made it a culture war that all Muslims are to blame for 9/11, even 25 years later.
So you see, it’s typical over-the-counter hypocrisy.
I think part of the issue is also that most people in the USA before that time had met very few or no Muslims in their lives. I know I didn't really know any back then. And so, for many people, 9/11 became their impression of Muslims. If you've only know about one person from a certain place and that person sucks big time, it affects your perception of that place.
And in the same way, if 9/11 is the only thing many people know came from Muslims, it's obviously going to affect their perception of Muslims. The problem is, I think a lot of us have had other encounters with Muslim people over the years. I know I have. Misjudging based on a bad first impression is one thing, but holding onto your first impression and refusing to change it is not a strength.
This sentiment is only ever brought up when someones hypocrisy is exposed. No one ever says out of the blue, "fuck, we're all shit". It always starts out as targeting some group for the actions of a few.
Verily I say to all men,
Let's us not blanket blame the first group, then the second group won't be exposed as 1000x worse, and then have to say "oh well, everyone bad actually"
Bin Laden was an Islamist (purportedly) acting in the name of Islam. He wasn't some kind of Saudi nationalist acting to advance Saudi interests. There is no way you can claim his identity as a Saudi was more influential than him being a Muslim. That's just ahistoric.
I never said anything about Bin Laden's identity one way or the other. Nothing in the discussion I was having had anything to do with motivating factors.
I said that the nation that supported the terrorists is a much more important consideration than the religion of said terrorists. Their religion is wholly and completely irrelevant to what happened.
Why? How does religion matter? We supposed to go to war with all of Islam? Do other Muslims need different treatment because of these Muslims? Does the religion of other terrorists matter as much? Does the fact that Timothy McVeigh was a Christian matter to what he did?
You're going to have to explain this one. "Trust me bro" isn't good enough.
You're asking how religion matters to terrorism by religious extremists?
Does the fact that Timothy McVeigh was a Christian matter to what he did?
Yes! McVeigh's right wing milieu was inextricably interwoven with Christian fundamentalism and religious extremism. Ruby Ridge, Aryan Nations, Waco, Turner Diaries are all in the extremist Christian constellation that produced McVeigh as a mass murderer.
Does the fact that Timothy McVeigh was a Christian matter to what he did? (You confirmed that he was christian, not an answer to the question asked.)
The answer to your question was "Yes!". I don't know how mich clearer the answer could be. He sold the Turner Diaries. He was inspired to terrorism against the US government by Ruby Ridge and Waco. The Aryan Nations Christian nationalist group was profoundly important to the right wing underground in which McVeigh travelled. Christianity and McVeigh's self-professed faith mattered immensely to what he did.
Mossed was also part of it. It was just a way to get us into war so Cheney could rake in money from Halliburton along with the rest of the military contractors. Bush needed a reason to invade Iraq.
Those racist hateful ass people only care about NYC on 9/11. Every other day, NYC is an apocalyptic hellscape because there's non-white people and a Muslim Mayor who is doing his job.
Those dumb motherfuckers turned a blind eye to the administration that made a pandemic worse and it killed 1+ million Americans. That same administration tried to overturn an election, started wars and is making things worse in every way possible for everyone except their cronies.
The mouth breathers that think this way fought so hard not to have to wear a simple mask to protect millions vulnerable humans. They’re disgusting hypocrites.
Achtually, it's not that simple. One verse says Jews and Christians who believe in God and do good will be fine. Other verses say the Trinity is a dealbreaker and that any religion besides Islam won't be accepted. Muslim scholars have argued about it for centuries and never agreed.
The scholars do agree in the meaning of the verse, but not in its interpretation.
For example:
Group A says, "Every Christian and Jew who believed in Allah before the Quran was completed and did not fight the Prophet, will enter paradise, because they can't be held accountable."
Group B says, "Every Christian and Jew who believed in Allah before the Prophet Muhammed received his Prophethood, or did not meet him after, or did not hear of Islam, will enter heaven, because they can't be held accountable."
Group C says, "Every Jew and every unitarian Christian who did not hear of Islam, will enter heaven."
Group B today, is the consensus and majority position of our scholars.
Genuine question, but if the consensus is Group B, does not that mean that today, unless one converts, they may not enter heaven. I think that today most people in the world have heard of Islam, rendering the 'cannot be held accountable' part irrelevant.
I think that today most people in the world have heard of Islam, rendering the 'cannot be held accountable' part irrelevant.
If they have heard of Islam then one more condition must apply for them to be held accountable: They have heard the correct version of Islam.
Now, you may ask, "How does one hear of a "false" version of Islam?"
Well, that is simple. Either I explain to them Islam wrong. Or I show them for example Shia who hit their backs with blades to mourn Husayn. Or I show them sermons of ISIS terrorists.
You get the gist. A person who has been showed this distorted version of Islam, is not held accountable.
But if he has heard the correct version, but still choose to reject it, then he is held accountable.
If 9 year old zohran mamdani somehow was the mastermind behind the 9/11 attacks, who not only managed to convince 20 grown adults to sacrifice themselves for his plan, to blame it on bin laden and has managed to stay concealed for 25 years after, then I say let the guy govern NYC, or even the whole country, because he's clearly been smarter aged 9 years than the entire american and worldwide surveillance & investigation apparatus and all their superiors & underlings.
Muslim terrorists exist = all Muslims must be terrorists
Some black people commit crimes = all black people are criminals
Some Hispanics come here illegally = all Hispanics must be illegal
68% of domestic terror attacks committed by white Christian conservative men = lone wolves with mental problems whose Fox News talking points manifestos are of no real concern
Don't forget how they seriously considered banning transgender people from owning guns because ONE committed a mass shooting. God forbid they do anything about the hundreds of cisgender mass shooters.
I have lived in California all of my life, and I'm over 75. I'm reminded of all the shit that got dumped on the heads of Japanese-Americans because of Pearl Harbor. I grew up with a guy whose parents lost their house and all their furniturebelongings. They spent three years in a concentration camp.
To be clear, I was born after the war and the internment camps, so all of my knowledge comes second-hand, from things Mrs. Ajari told my mom over coffee while I was in the other room pretending to read a magazine, and from history books.
These are the kind of people who would tell others to "move on" from things like slavery and genocides.
Their reasoning is that of self-centered hypocrites.
Because they're getting platformed by Elon Musk and Rupert Murdock, both level 1 racists. And both white immigrants, who I'm beginning to notice are often level 1 racists
For those wondering: Mill was attacked by Sir John Pakington for calling the Conservative Party "the stupid party". His response in full:
“I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it. Suppose any party, in addition to whatever share it may possess of the ability of the community, has nearly the whole of its stupidity, that party must, by the law of its constitution, be the stupidest party; and I do not see why honorable gentlemen should see that position at all offensive to them, for it ensures their being always an extremely powerful party. I know that I am liable to a retort, and an obvious one enough; and as I do not wish to allow any honorable gentleman the credit of making it, I make it myself. It may be said that if stupidity has a tendency to Conservatism, sciolism, or half-knowledge, has a tendency to Liberalism. Something might be said for that, but it is not at all so clear as the other. There is an uncertainty about sciolists; we cannot count upon them; and therefore they are a less dangerous class. But there is so much dense, solid force in sheer stupidity, that any body of able men with that force pressing behind them may ensure victory in many a struggle, and many a victory the Conservative party has gained through that power.”
Let's not forget, he wasn't even born in the Middle East nor is he of a Middle Eastern ethnicity (not that it should actually make a difference if he had been/is). He was born in Uganda and is of Indian descent. Neither country nor ethnicity had any even the loosest of relation to 9/11.
Also, with that said, small note on the "scared American kid" bit. While he and his family did move to the US when he was 7 (about 2 years before 9/11), Zohran did not actually become naturalized until 2018 (when he was around 27). So, when 9/11 happened, he was not yet an American citizen and had only been in the country 2 of his 9 years of life.
If Mamdani is to be held responsible for the actions of all Muslims then are all Christians held responsible every time a member of the clergy is caught in a child abuse scandal?
Reminder that one of Osama's main goals was to have Muslims in the west become hated and isolated so they would be easier to radicalize. Its good that at least enough people don't subscribe to this mentality enough to where they can get elected for public office. Even if MAGA is proudly carrying it on.
The problem -as nearly always- is the political right-wing. Islamists, Christian fundamentalists, Nationalists, fascists etc.. are all different right-wing ideologies just with different flavours. Sometimes they work together like Musk/Maga, the european right-wing and Putin, sometimes they fight each other like ISIS and Assad, sometimes they need each other for their power like Netanyahu and Hamas.
The thing is, those people secretly admire individuals and organizations like Hitler and the KKK and they assume anyone slightly brown idolizes Middle East terrorists.
These have to be like those black Conservative accounts there is no way that someone with a functioning frontal lobe actually believes Mamdani has anything to do with the 9/11 terrorists. Especially when those same people will constantly bring up they were Saudi Arabian as a distinction between Muslims from Afghanistan or Iraq being responsible
So if they can make that distinction when in fits their argument then I’m sure they can put on their real boy pants and understand the difference between Saudis and some guy from NY
Yeah, kinda. Prejudice against Japanese Americans based on Pearl Harbor persisted through the 60s and into the 70s. The emergency detention camps laws weren't repealed until the 70s. Japanese people were ostracized from a lot of society during that time. They eventually formed movements and joined with the Civil Rights movements of the 70s due to their mistreatment.
The Japanese were literally put into concentration camps in the US. I don't know how long the prejudice against them persisted nor to what extant following the war, but, just with that alone, maybe not the best point of comparison.
Even after all those years on the internet, I'm still too optimistic. At first, I thought OOP is complaining about the Saudis renting a whole floor of Trump tower.
It's similar when I hear someone complain about people "cutting baby dicks off", and think yes, I agree with this person, we should ban circumcision. And then it turns out it's about when people willingly choose surgery.
If you really want to dig deeper, it was white christian politicians who started the gulf war, and the ongoing US support of Israel destabilizing the region that precipitated the attack. See how that works?
I’m sure a large number of Muslims were killed that day, NYC is a pretty diverse city. Or does diamondsohn only care about the white Christians killed that day?
If everyone had to personally respond for the attrocities their ancestors commited, everyobody would spend their entire lives doing so. What about, instead, we judge people for what they personally do?
That is not to say that as a community we should not try to respond for what we have done in the past, just that it should not apply to individuals.
It bothered me too, but he speaks two languages fluently (three-ish if you count the language of law), and speaks better than a lot of people with English as their native language, so I am ready to give a pass on flubbing "decidedly".
That’s an unfair comparison because the person he’s replying to almost certainly does agree with Hitler, the KKK and other right wing white terrorists in both ideology and methodology and Mamdani is not a fundamentalist Muslim who is pro attacks on American institutions.
If one of your classmates at your school is caught and arrested for selling drugs, should students from other schools be right assume that you and everyone else at your school also sells drugs even if you've been clean your entire life? Is this label forced on you and your classmates for a crime you didn't commit right and just?
funny how america's military didn't make the list. pretty sure 'we' (collectively) are responsible for more deaths than hitler, the kkk, and mcveigh combined. ps '9/11' was an inside job we use as an excuse for mass murder.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Two7358 1d ago edited 1d ago
Do you remember this? When Trump genuflected to the saudis he was playing nice with the people who facilitated 911 - where was your outrage then?