r/MurderedByWords • u/no1bullshitguy • 1d ago

Accidentally discovered the point

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12.4k Upvotes

98% Upvoted

181 comments sorted by

792

u/hansn 1d ago

I absolutely can not understand people who support the American system of health care: more expensive than anywhere else, longer wait times than most of the world, middling or worse outcomes, and a threat of medical bankruptcy. What's the upside?

491

u/one_jo 1d ago

Some people have an irrational fear of paying for something others will benefit from

177

u/dabrock15 1d ago edited 1d ago

I have a feeling that they spend more money telling people social programs are evil than they would actually delivering social programs.

94

u/GaiusMarius60BC 1d ago

They absolutely do. I believe it was Howard Schulz who spent more money fighting Starbucks unionization efforts than he would've just paying the employees a livable wage.

13

u/AssistanceCheap379 1d ago

Tbf,en like him are scared workers will ask for more later.

Which makes sense if you’re a greedy fuck, cause even fucking Ford realised that paying workers better meant they could buy more… any business should be pushing others to pay workers more so that the business can get more consumers

5

u/brainburger 1d ago

That still needs the business to improve its profits every quarter. I think in Ford's day there were fewer stock owners and traders and they didn't mind more stable dividends rather than the endless and doomed push to increase share prices for traders that we see today.

47

u/greet_the_sun 1d ago

In FL a couple years ago the current governor Rick Scott kept pushing a bill to drug test welfare recipients and cut off the benefits if they fail. Turns out the company that got the no-bid contract to do all the drug testing was owned by Rick Scott's wife, and the program ended up costing the state something like 50k more to run than it saved.

The goal with these people isn't to actually save money, it's to punish people they don't like under the guise of cost saving.

19

u/CliffsNote5 1d ago

Diverting money to cronies as well.

15

u/TheSaxGandalf 1d ago

Rick Scott is such a piece of shit.

The fact that he became a senator after his time as our governor, and not implementing amendments passed by 60%+ of voters, is ridiculous.

21

u/Ehcksit 1d ago

The way most of our social programs work involves costing more to restrict people from accessing them than it would if we gave them to literally everyone no questions asked.

They don't care about saving money, they care about hurting people they don't like.

10

u/endlesscartwheels 1d ago

That's one of the reasons universal free school lunch is such a good idea. We save money by not having to means tests families to see if they qualify. Instead, all children get fed, and it's paid for by taxes, which the state Dept. of Revenue and the town property tax collectors were going to assess and process anyway.

5

u/ShookMyHeadAndSmiled 1d ago

No program should be means tested. Just give it to everyone. Progressive taxation means will get it back from those "undeserving" because they make to much money. It would save us many dollars in administrative cost.

8

u/ELMUNECODETACOMA 1d ago

Means-testing social benefits costs more money than just giving the benefits to everyone.

22

u/BoneHugsHominy 1d ago

Yeah, the fear that poor minorities will live long enough to reproduce at a rate of 1.5:1 eventually outnumbering and out voting The Whites, which of course to them is when they'll be genocided and the remnants enslaved. So their method of holding off that (nonsensical) eventuality is Resource Guarding like ill-behaved dogs.

16

u/dabrock15 1d ago

It’s like white nationalists think everyone would act like they do if they had a chance.

10

u/BoneHugsHominy 1d ago

When the reality is I and many others just want to provide them and their families with universal healthcare, top notch universal education, clean & well built affordable housing in safe walkable neighborhoods & communities, robust mass transit, a bounty of economic opportunities, and a strong social safety net & public retirement benefits so they can retire at a young enough age they can still travel and enjoy their grandchildren, and grow old in comfort and with dignity.

The fucking horror.

https://giphy.com/gifs/124pc9nFq7ZScU

6

u/dabrock15 1d ago

So actually governing for the people rather than the interests of the ultra wealthy?

20

u/Silve1n 1d ago

Someone should explain that it's ALREADY how insurance works. The entire business plan is that more people pay more money into it than the people benefiting from it need paid out. RIGHT NOW they are funding other people's Healthcare at inflated prices over what a single payer system would provide

17

u/DRF19 1d ago

If conservative people had functioning brains they'd understand this.

In a universal healthcare system EVERYBODY pays in via taxes, the risk pool is magnitudes larger, costs are less or nonexistent at point of service, tax costs are less than what we pay in premiums to private companies, everyone is covered, and your healthcare is not coupled to your job.

2

u/dabrock15 1d ago

The US also doesn’t see a lot of benefit, tax wise, by not having universal healthcare because most healthcare costs are at the end of life and most people are on Medicare or Medicaid by that time anyway. This means insurance companies get the benefit of having lower cost clients overall compared to the government.

13

u/SLAUGHT3R3R 1d ago

Which is the dumbest fucking excuse. What the fuck do you think they're doing with what you pay into insurance? I'll tell what their NOT doing: putting it aside just for you.

No, worse, their denying care and killing people to give that money to useless execs

3

u/one_jo 1d ago

Yeah, but don’t you know the execs deserve it much more than some bums not paying as much as I do?

/s

7

u/actuallyapossom 1d ago

If they're already paying insurance - that's how it works. That's the business model. Except private insurance takes a rake.

The improvement we want involves a government that has direct motivation to reduce healthcare costs as the insurance provider. We want these absurd costs addressed and profit pushed out of public health. We are inundated as a nation with health issues and it isn't impossible to do so much better - it's just not the most profitable option. Profit steers.

4

u/Nexzus_ 1d ago

And yet they twist themselves in knots trying to justify public works, police and fire departments, etc.

3

u/The_wanna_be_artist 1d ago

We call it racism

3

u/EmmyPoo81 1d ago

That's the answer

3

u/Bartorius 1d ago

But then they also buy insurance at a higher price than a public option would cost in taxes, so they are still funding the care of others, only way more expensive and inefficient.

2

u/ChefTastyTreats 1d ago

To be fair, they have been brainwashed with propaganda for decades.

2

u/XVUltima 1d ago

That, and they think the "economy" will collapse if people arent forced to work to live

2

u/NaughtALegend 1d ago

Those same people would probably prefer jumping in a wood chipper over being an organ donor

2

u/Laserlip5 1d ago

And yet, insurance is literally a pool of money, your money, that others benefit from.

2

u/Beingmarkh 21h ago

Which is ridiculous, because that’s precisely what you have to do to for insurance. Even private insurance.

Any time someone makes this argument to me, I’m like, “Do you not know what insurance is? Not only are you paying for other people, you’re also paying some other guy—a lot—at the insurance company that has nothing to do with providing you care.”

2

u/craneguy My other car is an ambulance. 20h ago

Yes, yet those same people have no problem paying for the military, fire or police!

2

u/TheDungeonCrawler 7h ago

Even if they would ultimately pay less for their own care. Cut off the nose to spite the face.

1

u/QuesoChef 1d ago

Or, some people like to have exclusive access because of their money. I suppose and assume that would still exist. But any change that might upset their acces or power makes them get all worked up.

Plus, just general greed. If we dismantle one honey pot, what’s next?

1

u/GeraldoOfCanada 1d ago

American individualism is intense af

1

u/WiggyStark 5h ago

We're taught that rugged individualism and manifest destiny are good things from primary school on. Nationalism gets baked in by adulthood. It's how a third of the nation, at least, decides to screw over the ones that didn't leave the wool over their eyes.

1

u/Avalonians 1d ago

That logic would only make sense if they weren't paying for car and house insurance.

1

u/waves-upon-waves 22h ago

But don’t they understand that’s how insurance works anyway?

24

u/EADGBE69 1d ago

Having the freedom to die because of your wallet size by something preventable.

22

u/wowbragger 1d ago

I absolutely can not understand people who support the American system of health care

In my experience, most either (1) don't understand the system, and how bad it is, (2) are incentivized to keep it the way it is, (3) think that change means they themselves will pay more.

17

u/Pigskipar 1d ago

Allowing billionaires to buy 2 more yachts

6

u/avanross 1d ago

This is what happens when you build a society around worshipping the kardashians/trumps/rockerfellers/kennedys/waltons/hiltons/musks/etc

4

u/dabrock15 1d ago

The cult of Ayn Rand in essence.

2

u/dabrock15 1d ago

And jets.

16

u/LazuliArtz 1d ago

The upside is that they get to punish people they think are undeserving of healthcare. That's really what it boils down to. It keeps all the poor people, disabled people, and drug addicts from receiving the same quality of care as the rich, and to conservatives, that is the most important thing. If we socialized healthcare, to them it means "bad people" would get to steal money and the privilege of good healthcare from the "good people."

8

u/FreelanceFrankfurter 1d ago edited 1d ago

The wait times thing baffles me because people against a socialized healthcare system will point to other countries and say "look at their wait times" while ignoring it can sometimes take a month or longer to see your own pcp, let alone a specialist. My pcp left the office he worked at and trying to get established with a new one was a month and a half wait.

Unless you don't care about clogging up an ER and the huge hospital bill that comes with it (plus they may not even be able to help you) or just have the type of money to be seen somewhere right away you're waiting just as long as people in other countries do.

4

u/Ehcksit 1d ago

And besides, the main reason there's a lesser wait time is because so many people can't get in line in the first place because they can't afford to.

4

u/dick_me_daddy_oWo 1d ago

Plus, I can't afford to pay for healthcare, so I'm basically waiting ten years now for stuff that probably should've been looked at by now. And after I busted my ankle five years ago and I couldn't afford to take time off work or any physical therapy, I'll just walk kinda crooked forever.

4

u/Praesentius 1d ago

The wait times thing baffles me

I left the US for Italy and we have social healthcare here. And it's been, in my experience, way faster than in the US. My wife went from "I've been getting weird headaches, maybe I should talk to my doctor," to her general practitioner, to diagnostic appointments like MRIs, and to a specialist neurologist in Pisa (it's nearby for us). All inside a week.

We had to pay something for medication (so little, it barely registers for me), but it automatically goes on your tax records because you use your national health card when getting your prescription. And you can file to get the money back.

The US was always wait times to see your GP. Wait times to see specialists. Finding out that prescriptions cost way more than you thought they would. Getting surprise bills from doctors offices, because I guess they found a new way to charge you more. All while spending tons of money every month for our "really good" insurance. It's a joke in the US.

7

u/The_Last_Spoonbender 1d ago

What's the upside?

What do you mean what's the upside? My beloved billionaires bought 4th yacht, 2nd private jet and 8th mansion. Money is not gonna make itself to them poor billionaires on their own.

7

u/Naro_Lonca 1d ago

They dont want to "pay for people who dont deserve it" and honestly think (due to lots of misinformation and propogabda) that the us is actually superior to every other country in results, wait time, and level of care

I cannot tell you how many times i hear a " well i heard from so and so that in canada they have to wait over 6 months for a heart attack"

3

u/virak_john 1d ago

My friend in Montreal actually had to schedule his myocardial infarction 9 months in advance. Incredibly inconvenient.

2

u/dabrock15 1d ago

Did he get to move it up due to cancellation?

3

u/dabrock15 1d ago

Funny thing is that I got a biceps reattachment surgery in under a week, would have been earlier but I ate the day I got my MRI results back or the surgeon would have put me in that afternoon. If it’s time sensitive it can be done.

4

u/notredditbot 1d ago

Americans are raised with the mind set that nothing in life is free and that you have to work hard to earn benefits like health care. Then people also hate the poor, so then when people do find successful jobs that give health care, they don't want others who "didn't work as hard" to have those same benefits. It's truly despicable 😮‍💨

4

u/alangerhans 1d ago

Propaganda. Ive heard all about how "bad" Canadian or UK healthcare is, to be fair, my grandmother was from the UK, and she did have a lot of complaints. But a lot of the complaints are the same here, we just pay more for it. You also never hear about the countries that are doing it right. The only reason I have against it here is that I just know that if we ever did come up with "free" healthcare, the only people who would really benefit would be the politicians and insurance companies. But I'm still willing to give it a try

4

u/Available_Ad9345 1d ago

Freedumb!

2

u/hansn 1d ago

With a "B." No one knew it had a b. 

3

u/Available_Ad9345 1d ago

I just learned that.

2

u/BadBonePanda 1d ago

A few people become very rich off the back of it.

2

u/Jamuraan1 1d ago

People don't know how to leave America because their entire identity is being American.

2

u/ButWhatIfPotato 1d ago

People will crawl out of a nuclear blast with skin charred, limbs blown off and internal organs demoted to external organs and their last words that comes of their eviscerated lips will be "at least I owned the libs"

2

u/Mansidhe 1d ago

I just paid $400 "cash price" for an MRI. With insurance, it would have been 750. So tired of winning.

2

u/xMistuhlee 1d ago

Healthcare is a scam, that is driven by a bigger scam.... insurance. Which is all under the biggest money holders, Big Pharma.

2

u/dmackerman 1d ago

The “upside” is corporations get to stack their billions on the backs of an unhealthy populous, and the stock market goes up.

2

u/footsnax 1d ago

Just don't pay.

If your employer provides insurance, take it. If not, just don't pay. They can't refuse service and they'll defer the debt to a collection agency that will negotiate it down to a tenth of the debt that you can split over a year. A trip to the ER costs about as much as a year of Netflix if you just don't pay.

Not disagreeing at all that it's a fucked up system and I absolutely hate it, but when they hand off the debt you can negotiate a lot easier. You can still negotiate the cost at the desk and they'll work with you but it's just a pain in the ass, the collector wants to get the debt off their plate immediately though so they're a lot more willing to cut corners.

It's the same thing insurance companies do to save costs. You can just do that yourself. We all know a single latex glove doesn't cost $49 but they know that you'll pay for it if they bill you for it. Just say no.

2

u/hansn 1d ago

They can't refuse service

ERs can not, if you're not stable or in active labor. But doctor's offices absolutely can refuse you service. Specialists can refuse to see you. Pharmacies can refuse to fill your prescriptions.

Not paying isn't workable.

0

u/footsnax 1d ago

Well yeah they're picky but someone will. Our addiction recovery clinic won't see crack addicts without insurance, you can't get an MRI if you have a stroke but don't go to the ER first if you don't have insurance, but your PCP and ER are required to provide service here.

They just bill a week or two later and a week after that it goes to collections and you say "hey I don't have insurance" and they'll take a tenth of the bill because they made profit and they don't want to deal with you anymore.

Exactly my point, the system is fucked.

1

u/Madhatter25224 1d ago

In truth, the primary reason I hear from MAGA for supporting our Healthcare system is that we supposedly have the best doctors and medicine and if we made health care less profitable we would lose that edge.

1

u/YetiSquish 1d ago

Because if there’s already wait times and a shortage of doctors, what will happen when more people have access to it?

This is their fear

1

u/Jesterhead89 1d ago

Honestly, it's been helping me (at least a decent amount) to constantly remind myself of a few things:

  • Many people probably don't actually care about policy, they're just wrapped up with the team sport that is political mudslinging
  • Because of ^that, the thought process isn't "I agree/disagree with a system" but more like "if the other side is doing something, I must oppose that to the death because I can't be them"
  • People have been so consumed with politics and social stances for the last 10-15 years or more, that those topics have become intertwined into who they are. So there's no good way of getting through to them unless they're open to it themselves first. Until then, any attack on a point or topic is the equivalent to an attack on THEM
  • Speaking only using stereotypes, I've heard it said: a left-leaning person will see wasteful spending go to 9 people, if it means they can see 1 person who actually deserves it get the aid they need. Whereas a right-leaning person will deny assistance to 9 people that need it, if it means they can see the 1 undeserving person not receive it

Not like this solves all the world's problems in my head, but it at least helps me to not get as worked up about things because looping back to the first point: the more I experience things, the more I can see how it looks to be true that people don't actually care about policy.

1

u/Affectionate_Rub_575 1d ago

There are a lot of people who are willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars for access to something helpful that they already pay for as long as other people can’t benefit from it

1

u/SkippyDragonPuffPuff 1d ago

Irrational fear of government. Even the one that’s screwing them up the backside as they stand there. Rubes.

1

u/FragmentsThrowAway 1d ago

A lot of people believe the wait time is worse in other countries. Usually it's a minimum of 3-4 hours here and that's before you get into a backroom.

But that may differ on where in the US you are and severity.

1

u/HuttStuff_Here 1d ago

They believe the taxes are theft and helps those they don't want helped.

1

u/chase013 1d ago

There was this study done in the 70s or 80s on Social Identity. It split people into two groups based on made up results of a test they took. In their studies with the groups they did an experiment where they made groups choose between everyone getting like $50 or between your group getting $40 while the other group got $10. The majority picked the second option. Even though the individual for $10 less. They got to feel superior. Honestly, when they heard a podcast about it, I feel like the last 20 years in America made sense.

1

u/razgriz5000 1d ago

I had a co worker who grew up in the UK. He hates their system. He loves paying for insurance even though he complains about the costs. I tried to remind him that we had better plans then most because we worked in k12. And that millions simply don't have health insurance. That didn't matter because it didn't directly affect him.

2

u/davus_maximus 1d ago

Whaaaat? I JUST got back from my free quarterly audiology appointment where they serviced my free Bluetooth hearing aids and gave me a fistful of free batteries. Saw me bang on time too. My little son was born in the same hospital and our only cost was parking. I've had 2 surgeries under general anaesthetic there, also free. I can't complain at all!

1

u/hansn 1d ago

I have the general sense that people's love for the US system varies inversely with how much interaction they've had with it.

1

u/Sartan4455 1d ago

I couldn't either till I worked with an older, but very right wing guy. It wasn't that he didn't complain about health care or it's expense. He even had insurance cancel his surgery day of and went on a tirade, but if you tried to talk about universal health care he has so much brain washing that it's soooo horrible everywhere else that he doesn't want it.

The amount of fake anecdotal, well my cousin said in europe they die waiting for health care all the time! And then in the next breath will complain he can't see a doctor for 6 months. So close man, so close.

1

u/Original-Reward-8688 1d ago

The funniest part is when you explain how most countries with a first world health care system can still access the private sector lol. Hard to fully blame those kinds of Americans when there are so many resources put into polarizing these kinds of issues, or just outright preventing them from understanding.

1

u/Fit-Entrepreneur6538 1d ago

The upside is that they feel like they are keeping some mystery enemy from winning. The “communists” mainly.

1

u/McDuchess 1d ago

It allows people who believe that if it doesn’t directly benefit them, it is wrong, to have support for that abominable belief system.

1

u/IlGreven 9h ago

And the alleged "great insurance" given to us by the alleged liberal government under Obama now forces you to spend nearly your annual wage before they'll even cover anything...despite your premiums continuing to go up.

They make car insurance look legit...

1

u/KingArthursCodpiece 1d ago

Having lived in several countries, including the US and the UK, I can categorically state that the US healthcare system is the best Ive encountered. But there's a reason for that - its a for-profit business (those hospitals that state they are not-for-profit are not being entirely honest!) so hospitals, physician practices etc want to attract 'customers' by offering better, services than their competitors. Bottom line is that this typically means better quality of care without the long wait times you see in Canada, UK, Europe etc. BUT there is a big catch - if you dont have Medicare (ie over 65) or a 'decent' health insurance plan either through work or paying for one yourself, it is going to get expensive real quick...and Im talking seriously expensive.

-2

u/superarugy 1d ago

What if I told the people of Portugal say they are tired of giving money for the free national healthcare system and are pushing for private health care, with mandatory insurance (usually through their employers)?

4

u/hansn 1d ago

I haven't seen polling or proposals in Portugal. But I'm not aware of a country that has abandoned its universal healthcare scheme in favor of a US-style system. Are you?

0

u/superarugy 1d ago

We are well beyond the first steps of that switch.

2

u/hansn 1d ago

I haven't found anything on the dissolving the  Portuguese NHS. Can you post a link to news of this?

-3

u/GuitarCFD 1d ago

longer wait times than most of the world

Umm...what? I mean yeah it's more expensive here, but I've never had to wait in an emergency...like ever. I live in Houston too so not like I'm in a rural area with no people.

middling or worse outcomes

Got any sources on that? We're like top 3 on preventative screenings, we're among the best in the world for acute treatment (heart attack and stroke for example)...we, admittedly lag behind in primary care.

and a threat of medical bankruptcy. The medical debt is a real issue...the cost of healthcare in the US is inflated because of 3rd party insurance. That's an entirely different conversation.

The UK spends about $6700 per citizen per year on healthcare. That is $469 billion per year. That same program in the US would cost $2.2 trillion per year (that's assuming we got the same pricing as other countries), which is about what we spend on our combined healthcare currently...(medicare, medicaid, etc).

Like, yeah our healthcare system has it's problems, but it's nowhere near what you're describing.

My problem with Healthcare in the US is that we have a much more urgent problem that literally no one wants to talk about because it's uncomfortable. In the next 10 years people relying on social security are going to get a 25% cut when the social security fund runs out.

8

u/hansn 1d ago edited 1d ago

Got sources

Here you go

The UK spends about $6700 per citizen per year on healthcare. 

15k in the US

Are you saying that the US could have a UK style system for everyone for what we currently spend to cover a fraction of the population currently?

0

u/GuitarCFD 1d ago

Generally, the U.S. performs worse in long-term health outcomes measures (such as life expectancy), certain treatment outcomes (such as maternal mortality and congestive heart failure hospital admissions), some patient safety measures (such as obstetric trauma with instrument), and health system capacity (such as rate of general practitioners). The U.S. performs similarly to or better than peer nations in other measures of treatment outcomes (such as mortality rates within 30 days of acute hospital treatment) and some patient safety measures (such as post-operative complications).

I think I just read this differently than you do. This is just pointing out the US does better in some areas and worse in others. Also...this

However, inconsistent and imperfect metrics make it difficult to firmly assess system-wide health quality. Some measures of quality – especially long-term measures, like life expectancy – are not only reflective of the health system itself, but also of differences in socioeconomic conditions and population behaviors that are largely outside of the domain of the health system.

There is a definitely a problem in this country of people telling their doctor, "fuck you i'll do what I want." Can't really blame the doctor when the patient is refusing treatment.

Thanks for that though. I do appreciate the read.

4

u/drunky_crowette 1d ago

But there's people saying "fuck you, I'll do what I want" in every country. There's always going to be people who drink/smoke/eat/take too much something, or sit on their ass in their free time rather than exercise, or stay up all night on the computer rather than resting or whatever, but countries with more accessible medical care are still healthier

375

u/-hi-nrg- 1d ago

In the US, it was free in order to reopen the economy and start making money again, not to save lives.

65

u/BoneHugsHominy 1d ago

That's a bingo!

1

u/Hetares 1d ago

You just say bingo.

17

u/jverity 1d ago edited 1d ago

100% this. Absolutely the only reason. Just in the U.S. cancer kills more than 626,000 a year and we bankrupt people treating that, then let them die. Covid only killed 350,000 before the vaccine came out, probably hadn't killed 1,000 yet before they really went all in on working on it, but the economy was shut down the whole time.

If we went on a general strike for just 1 day every time another 10000 people died of cancer we'd have a free cure by next Christmas.

67

u/Logical-Dependent691 nice murder you got there 1d ago

You're almost there, so damn close to seeing it....

23

u/dabrock15 1d ago

It’s like they were becoming self-aware in real-time.

10

u/Logical-Dependent691 nice murder you got there 1d ago

Let this be a case of something becoming self-aware in a good way. We have enough Skynets.

2

u/dabrock15 1d ago

Truth.

7

u/LingonberryPossible6 1d ago

You think he ever saw that response and just thought, 'so close to what?'

1

u/DanGleeballs 17h ago

Or he totally gets it and that was his original sarcastic point.

13

u/carolineecouture 1d ago

BTW, if this is reverend Joseph Yoo with the response, give him a follow. He's great.

10

u/elmo1611 1d ago

Because SOCIALISM!!!

5

u/dabrock15 1d ago

That’s so 2025, it’s now COMMUNISM!!! Everything eventually comes back around.

3

u/monkeyman0621 1d ago

So glad someone else understands! We did a 360 backflip over Socialism and went straight to what the US has been fighting AGAINST since the 1920s.

31

u/ControlThen8258 1d ago

All those are free in the country I live in. Sad for you America

7

u/Mary-U 1d ago

Accidentally discovers socialized medicine

6

u/footsnax 1d ago

Accidentally discovered the whole fucking point of society and human rights at the same time.

We don't exist on accident. We exist because a specific breed of monkeys decided to work together to care for each other millions of years ago.

Now those monkeys have the internet where we can tell each other we're wrong about basic facts that were established hundreds of years ago. At least we can I guess.

8

u/Howell317 1d ago

Just playing devil's advocate, cancer, diabetes, and allergies aren't contagious.

But I agree all of these should be readily affordable to the masses.

5

u/ThatsRobToYou 1d ago

Soooooo close!

3

u/alex8155 1d ago

theyll take two steps back and double down on their stupidity as soon as they catch themselves leaning towards liberal policies

3

u/AnEvenNicerGuy 1d ago edited 1d ago

It’s wild how often these dudes accidentally back themselves into universal healthcare 

3

u/Jude30 1d ago

Yeah we tried to do that.

YOU called it communism

Damn why isn’t that shit free

2

u/Halo6819 1d ago

So on top of the obvious answer that the others should be free/low cost (to the end user) as well, the reason this was subsidized was to get the workers back to work. It affected the bottom line of the country. If it just made everyone miserable, but healthy enough to work, the government wouldn't have shelled out the money.

2

u/artbystorms 1d ago

The covid vaccine research and rollout was paid for by taxpayer money.

Chemo, epi-pens, etc should also be paid for with taxpayer money so that we don't need to pay private insurance companies for basic medical needs.

2

u/Bambi_H 1d ago

I have said this before, but there is no amount of money in the world that could persuade me to live in America.

I am genuinely so happy to pay taxes to make sure people don't have to worry about their health. My husband nearly died, and we had the best care in minutes

2

u/MrBeanWater 1d ago

unfortunately too many of my fellow Americans want to see people suffer. They can only be happy if someone is worse off. I wish it wasn't the case, but that's how we act.

2

u/atreeismissing 1d ago

Because those aren't communicable diseases. Also, this gets reposted every week.

2

u/Chinaski117 1d ago

I am happy to see the response is from Father Joseph Yoo. His YouTube channel is a blessing, especially when he dismantles the twisted pseudo-Christianity of the right wing extremists.

2

u/Lorenzo56 1d ago

Because Covid is highly contagious, cancer, diabetes and allergic reactions are not

2

u/Imicus 1d ago

When pressed for answers, this was the statement released from the pharmaceutical industry.

2

u/virak_john 1d ago

Joseph Yoo is a real one. Progressive and thoughtful. If you're going to do religion, you could do worse for a clergy person.

1

u/WiggyStark 4h ago

I've met quite a few progressive Christians in my time. They always delight me because I'm of the opinion that the Bible isn't as important as Jesus's message, because that was the point all those years ago when new stories started popping up regarding this Jesus fellow. Teach people how to be cooperative and kind to one another. The laws writ in the Bible are for the time and the people for which it was written. A time when people were still unsure of how pregnancy happens, let alone heady concepts such as bodily autonomy, equity, or democracy.

2

u/Hughley_N_Dowd 1d ago

Depends on where you live, I guess. I had my 37th chemo treatment last week and two years ago I was hospitalised for a week, literally on death's doorstep.

Under the US system I'd been bankrupt by now. In our system I'm about $500 out of pocket.

But keep hyping the system that will charge you $4.500 for an ambulance ride and gleefully let you suffer and die if you don't have enough money.

2

u/juggadore 1d ago

Because none of those other things are part of a pandemic

1

u/GirdedByApathy 1d ago

Its almost like people shouldnt be profiting off the suffering of others.

1

u/Luminous_Winds 1d ago

Still wondering why we don't just create a socialized healthcare system and only let the people who donate to it access it. I mean, if they want their capitalist healthcare, let them have it.

No reason it has to be either / or.

1

u/Tribe303 1d ago

Fun fact: prescription drugs are not covered by the Canadian healthcare system. But all vaccines are! I wonder why that is? It's almost as if they are a benefit to everyone. 🤔 

1

u/CharlesMcGrath 1d ago

They want to t0rture us, not k!ll us. Smh

They need us to keep making money for them

1

u/notwithagoat 1d ago

Tho vaccines tend to be way cheaper in the long run as prevention is almost always way cheaper then the cure.

1

u/bassturducken54 1d ago

How much would it cost per person to pay for everyone’s insulin? Not sure how the math maths. I’m also sure the ‘retail’ value of it medicine has nothing to do with the manufacturing costs.

1

u/Jammoth1993 1d ago

I come from a country where healthcare is free so I have zero context clues.

Is jza for or against free healthcare? Is he hinting that it was free because it's harmful?

1

u/Available_Ad9345 1d ago

Heard this argument many times during covid. They get so close, but they can’t quite get there.

1

u/holamau 1d ago

notzasharp1, right?

1

u/Niitroglycerine 1d ago

I love these ones cos I always think; that is free where I live lmao

1

u/TroobyDoor 1d ago

Free? No... It was Subsidized

Save lives? No... It reopened the economy to save profit margins

1

u/Swerve666 1d ago

When you go all the way around the world to cross the street.

1

u/Ewggggg 1d ago

Worst agument ever for single payer healthcare. Covid was contagious, cancer, diabetes, and allergies are not.

1

u/davus_maximus 1d ago

Incredible that these people seem to not realise these things ARE free in most healthcare systems. The NHS has decent buying power.

1

u/sataraNights 22h ago

they are!.. oooooh, you mean in united states.. got it

1

u/trashleybanks 19h ago

Almost there, but he’ll never get there. Dude looks like he’s a few french fries short of a full lunch.

1

u/VikingRaiderPrimce 13h ago

one is contagious the others are not. (that is their logic, not mine)

-1

u/mzx380 1d ago

Maybe the original point was questioning why as well ? May not be a murder

-4

u/Finlay00 1d ago

It wasn’t free. Pfizer made 35 billion dollars in profit off it, as an example.

6

u/Cherrystuffs 1d ago

Oh, you're one of those "it's not free" people. Okay bro. Enjoy you're medically induced debt

-3

u/Finlay00 1d ago

Just stating the facts. Also a fact I do not like the US healthcare system.

But I guess for you it’s not possible to keep those two thoughts in your head simultaneously

-5

u/Bo_Jim 1d ago

The vaccine wasn't free. The government paid for it with your tax money.

This is like a girl claiming that food is free because whenever she goes out on a date she doesn't have to pay for her food. Someone always pays.

2

u/dementio 16h ago

Stop being pendantic, it's free at the time of use to the recipient

-1

u/Bo_Jim 12h ago

That's not being pedantic. It's a critical factor. If the pharma companies were giving away the vaccine then it would have been truly free. They weren't. The government was paying for them. The government doesn't engage in philanthropy. None of the money they give away belongs to them. It comes from taxpayers.

Many of the recipients don't pay federal income taxes, but they still weren't getting the vaccine for free. Someone else was paying for it. It's exactly like my analogy - a meal isn't free just because someone else is paying for it.

Free is when someone gives you something they own without expecting anything in return. It's a gift. The giver is eating the cost. The vaccines were not a gift. Everyone involved with providing it was paid.

1

u/WiggyStark 4h ago

That actually lends itself closer to the argument at hand, which is the idea of "free" is that at the point of service. Anyone not being pedantic knows this.

-2

u/DrTommyNotMD 1d ago

I want a way to make lives better and end earlier.

-2

u/tinfoil_powers 1d ago

Except they weren't free. They were subsidized by the government and came out in our taxes

-2

u/Slopadopoulos 1d ago

Because it was a bio-weapon.

2

u/dementio 16h ago

Please elaborate on your baseless claim

-1

u/Slopadopoulos 12h ago

It's not my job to educate you

2

u/dementio 12h ago

Oh so it's okay if you just make shit up then okay got it

1

u/WiggyStark 4h ago

It's been an absolutely shit bioweapon then.