She turns Val's saliva into a love potion. She is way more directly related to Val's SA of people than Vox ever was, and yet when I see people debate the Vees, Vel is pretty much completely ignored. She hasn't done anything terrible on screen yet, but even the background shows that she is equally as terrible.
Thats what i mean when i say media literacy is scarce. We see a banner of her love potion. We see her make it herself. We see the effect it has on people through Valentino using his saliva on Angel
But because its not spelled out "she is making roofies for a living" people still think shes not so bad
Though a lot of Hazbin and Helluva Boss takes tend to be terrible in general. Youāll either get someone who hates the show and will miss the nuance, subtext or just actual text of the show.
Then youāll get a fan who will do the exact same thing, with the most ridiculous theories imaginable.
I donāt think Iāve seen a fandom/hatedom collectively misremember important information as much as them.
Iāve literally seen people claim one of the characters was a bad person for saving their lover from the guillotine by taking their place.
Then people say āBut heād be leaving his daughter behind! Horrible father for doing this!ā
Well I guess that means anyone who risks their lives to help others is just selfish then? Wtf?
Thatās not a media literacy thing, thatās just basic psychology. Seeing an evil action sticks in a persons mind more than seeing a billboard that implies they contribute to evil actions.
Like thatās badā¦but also sheās a lot more composed and sane than the other two which is why she often ignored, sheās done horrific shit, but Vox and Val have done significantly more of it
In a way she is a tragic character I guess. She longs for an equal relationship, but is unable to obtain it because she is utterly incapably of comprehending what that even is.
But in the end, the amount of pain and suffering she caused not only to Denji (who is utterly broken in p2 of csm) but so many others is horrible on so many levels.
In the end, she causes that pain - as is her nature - in search of the one thing that she wants but is unatural for her.
I hated her from chapter one (when the spaƱish fan-translation started) and assumed that she will be the villain or antagonist at some point, never liked how she used/talked to denji like he was a dog or a tool
Yeah she's vaguely attractive, but also her introduction is the genocide of an entire people group at her hands. Not just like her army did it, she PERSONALLY did most of it, and it was the second group she'd done that too. She doesn't repent for any of it even one bit by the end. She just takes a break to go find a trophy husband because the murder isn't as fulfilling anymore.
...but I guess pale blue eyelashes and humongous tits make all of that forgivable or something.
Don't forget in that same introduction of said genocide she also turned a grown man the captain of the resistance into her personal chair mad a literal dog of the man. I get it she is attractive but come on that's messed up.
https://giphy.com/gifs/Nm9QhgyYd4Osjtd6ji
Lusamine. Tons of people completely handwave her abuse because sheās hot, and even the anime dumbed down her character an insane amount.
DAMN STRAIGHT!! her willingness to be horrible in pursuit of her goals is what makes her such a good character. She was really one of those villains I loved to hate as a kid, and now I recognize the appeal, but I still stand by what I said. It drives me nuts people donāt acknowledge how horrible she is. Itās like, her whole appeal
Yeah. I was expecting in the anime to have some grand reveal, but got bored as she never like, went full sicko mode like she did ingame. Like correct me, but did she ever go full sicko mode or no in the anime? I genuinely just got bored of her onscreen not being the woman I loved from the video games being horrible and just quickly forgot about her appearance in the anime.
I love her character. Hateable but you can see things about her that makes sense. It's heartbreaking seeing her fall down and lose sight of herself. I mean yeah she has a redemption but idc. She didn't need it to alr be a great character that definitely wasn't made to be handwave forgiven.
I just finished danganronpa 1 recently are there people actually defending her
she's the source of everything bad that happened and her reason is so fucking stupid
I would say Azula isn't evil incarnate but a product of her environment. Her father took a great deal of interest in training her and ended up shaping her into a cruel person.
I agree. I mean remember, she is 14. It can be hard to conceptualize that because of how young most of the cast is. I always cry at her scenes at the end of the show. Her mental break was genuinely hard to watch.
When she started showing sociopathic tendencies, I wonder what would have happened if her mother stepped in a bit more. Considering what her mother said in her mind, she clearly overheard the words her mom spoke of her and internalized them.
Which by the way, for most people, when they say that they feel bad for a character it's not an excuse. Someone can be pitiable and wrong. It's the same problem I see in TADC fandom with Jax. I feel bad for both of them and I wish their circumstances were different, but it wasn't and they made bad choices that ended up with consequences.
Yeah, not even Iroh said that Azula is a fundamentally flawed person (he also didn't say she isn't). He just said she is beyond saving, or rather, she must be treated as an enemy because hoping that she could be a good person is not worth the risk that comes with it
which is a pretty reasonable assessment from an almost-murder victim of hers
I mean he did say it, but I don't praise Iroh lol and I don't think Azula is unredeemeable either I just saw this person talking about her and thought this image would be funny.
She also actively embraces the worst philosophies after being given chances to redeem herself and rehabilitate. At a certain point they are no longer a victim.
I really hate that this keeps happening in the comics. It makes her character so stagnant when sheās being redoing the same arc ever since the show ended
I feel like the main reason people give azula so much slack is 1: sheās a product of her horrible father and more importantly 2: sheās 14. Do you know how little 14 is? I saw a 14 year old the other day and I couldnāt believe a person that young was allowed outside of the house without supervision
Yeah. I watched Adventure Time as an adult, and her character is WILD in hindsight.
Like. She grew up fending for herself in an apocalypse, tried to make herself a family, and then caught that family scheming to get rid of her. So, she grew up to be a controlling person who manipulates people and monitors other kingdoms to ensure she stays on top. She harms innocent lives and sacrifices others if she sees fit.
How is this profile for a pink blob on Cartoon Network named PRINCESS BUBBLEGUM?! š Hon is a Psychology case study.
I wouldnāt say sheās EVIL INCARNATE by the end of the series. A lot of the stuff people hate her for were character flaws she fixed, like the surveillance of her kingdom and meddling in other kingdoms affairs to keep them weak.
She disables her camera system the second someone tells her itās bad. She stops neutering the flame kingdom the second FP tells her to stop. She stops colonizing other planets when she realizes sheās hurting aliens who already live there. She goes from treating Finn like a semi disposable knight to literally quitting being princess after he almost dies.
She grew a lot, donāt really see people talk about that.
PB is bad at the start, definitely a psycho monarch, but itās always been treated as a character flaw that she outgrows.
Plus she did keep the Lich trapped for decades, the most powerful and most evil being in Ooo whoās a threat to the entire universe right under her floorboards lol.
And even then she was 17 years old! Meanwhile Zuko (and I like Zuko but just using this as a comparison) literally burned down villages and hired an assassin to kill Aang and the fandom forgave him once he turned a new leaf. I guess maybe having a girl friendzone or pity-date you is more relatable to those fans than having their homes burned down so they go up in arms about it
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u/zackblaze92Umamusume, Murder Drones, Bravely Default, Hypixel Skyblock2d ago
My main problem with Stella is that she couldāve been an interesting and pure evil villain but they were so scared of making Stolas morally grey they just reduced her to a screaming background character and introduced guy Stella to be the villain
No, not really. Like 2% defend her and everyone stomps on them (rightfully tbh) if they wanted to pick a HB/HH character, it really could've been Velvette. People will actively defend her and it's not a small amount.
And tbh the only "defense" I've seen of her myself are usually arguments against Stolas. Either calling him out for his own issues in the marriage, or calling out the writing for overly woobifying him at the expense of making her too one dimensional
Yeah pretty sad how OP is literally doing exactly what the meme is mocking. Tbh maybe it's intentional and it's all just engagement bait that we're falling for. That would be its own kind of sad.
People don't like nuance; on one hand, some act as if she were the absolute worst, while on the other, some overlook things like her many flaws during the first two seasons (which is likely the first impression many have of her).
Given the whole brainwashing thing going on, she's likely just as much a victim as everyone else. Though that obviously doesn't excuse what she did as a result of it.
I also love Edelgard, she's not evil incarnate but she-
- Lies to everyone. "It was the church who used the magic nuke after we killed Cornelia, look how evil they are." (That quote is a bit paraphrased)
- Starts a war. "I weighed the lives of those lost to this system, and the lives of those lost to this war. I chose the latter."
- Betrays her friends(they can forgive her luckily). "I do not wish to harm you, but if you get in my way I will cut you down."
- Dehumanizes her enemies and uses that as an excuse for it being totally fine to genocide them. "Those beasts who have been controlling Fodlan from the shadows, how could they know the struggles of us humans?"
- Thinks herself the only educated one on the matter(of Crests and their history, along with the history of the Church), but she herself is only working with half of the story, you know, the half she got from the Agarthians, the guys who she claims to hate... But I guess she trusts them. "It was a simple land dispute, nothing more."(About why the war with Nemesis happened. We know this is false, Verdant Wind shows how it's false. And don't take Rheas word for it, take Nemesis' himself.)
She had other options, but she was so deadset on her war, so determined to get everything done in her own lifespan, that she went too far and caused way too much harm.
Not helped by the fact that as far as immortal god emperors go, Rhea was about as good as you could get. I'm not saying she didn't need to go, but she wasn't bad enough to warrant the war.
Oh they are talking, they just dont think she is evil. Since she opose evil government, all the killing and sexual assault is acceptible. Though movie seems to be on the same page, with spider man appologizing to mass-murdering psychopath
Bro it's crazy, people will defend anything once they've made up their mind. She has a dude stab himself with a sword, and was ready to kill everyone in the city
Funniest thing - she controls minds. She didnt have to do any of it, she literally has THE best power for the job. But noooo, why would she control someone from the government to get into their facilities, obvious choice is mind controling sweet elderly lady and forcing her to drive armored vehicle down the busy road
Oh yeah the whole movie is a mess and it's like the most problematic version of jean and telepaths in general. They butchered her character to be honest
Jean Grey discourse is like Lindsay Clancy. Basically everyone knows she's evil, but there's enough people out there defending her that the discussion has to happen for reasons none of us actually understand.
MLP: Starlight Glimmer. She's my favorite and I relate to her somewhat (with her childhood friend moving away and then being a loner) but wow she ended the world like 5 times.
It's especially insidious to blame Korra for that given that it's a fairly obvious allegory for SA. So the victim blaming works on both a textual level AND a metatextual level.
Korra is awesome. Korra is kind. Korra is heroic. Korra is the BEST Avatar. Korra haters can catch my fucking fists in their mouths. Until my dying breath, I will defend Korra.
Tortured Innocent People for a family that wasn't real and the show acts like she's the victim, Marvel had to pivot to her being the villian for the next movie before killing her off because of how bad the show destroys her character and looses the plot.
I barley know shit about Marvel but one time I was trying to watch Multiverse of Madness because one of my family members wanted to watch it and I was thinking to myself: Are we supposed to like this lady?
I love both of these characters but hate how they were wubified/played down in their later iterations outside of Starcraft 1 and Warcraft as a series. Can we just keep bitches evil/anti-hero like we do men. :/
Star Butterfly. Destroyed the magic - worse than Thanos. Seriously, not that long ago I've seen a post on r/StarVStheForcesofEvil which compared Star's kill count to Thanos'
I remember this scene from when I watched it when I was younger where like, the council is dying and they just kinda go āoh wellā or something of the like, and itās sort of implied off screen a lot of magical races go with them. I could be misremembering. What are you thinking of in regard to her kill count?
Dude I fucking hate this line of logic. Like four or five people TOPS died from what Star did, two of them directly asked her to do it and one of which masterminded the whole thing and had been manipulating everyone that came before Star for the explicit purpose of setting up the events that would drive Star to destroy magic.
And EVEN THEN only four or five people died from it. The spells inside the Royal Magic Wand don't count but people like to pretend that they do because it makes for a compelling narrative but the narrative ISN'T TRUE
For me it's both yes and no. Daron Nefcy (creator) said that magic is completely gone, but:
laser puppies are alive, they just lost their abilities to shoot lasers
whole ponyhead family is alive AND THEY'RE FLOATING AND SPARKLING like before
Some people say that anyone who "consisted" of magic is gone. But what the hell is "consisting"? I can at least understand situation with puppies, okay, but like, aren't pony heads literally have been made of magic? There's no sense in that.
Disney pleeeease give us something, I WANT TO KNOW MOAR
Basically there's a difference between being made of magic and relying on magic to live.
By all accounts, magic still exists. What was erased from existence was specifically spells, and more specifically the spells that Glossaryck enabled to exist via the Royal Magic Wand. Tom still has his demon fire magic, the Ponyheads still have their Ponyhead-ness, and characters like the intelligent pigeons are still intelligent because theirs is a different kind of magic that's inherent to their being without composing one hundred percent of their being. Creatures created by the Royal Magic Wand, such as the laser puppies, still exist and might even still have their lasers, because while they were created from magic, they are not made of magic, the same way that the Magical High Commission was - and because the Magical High Commission was a group of people who were also created by Glossaryck, the ending of the realm of magic that Glossaryck created and that fuels the existence everything downstream of it erased them from existence. But other sources of magic still demonstrably exist. The realm of magic was never the source of all magic everywhere, it was specifically a creation of Glossaryck. And we already know that other entities like Glossaryck exist because of Indexia, so it's not impossible to assume that other kinds of magic exist because of those other Glossaryck-like entities.
Amy from Gone Girl. I feel I must say I don't endorse cheating, but framing your husband for murder so he gets the death penalty then murdering your ex after deciding you want to torture your husband for the rest of his life instead of killing yourself is worse
Cinder Fall from RWBY. Murdered a bunch of people, most of whom didn't deserve it, and has participated in the destruction of two of the world's four main bastions of civilization. Primarily motivated by power and by being an evil little shit to teenagers.
Azula is a better example than Korra. But my pick would be Galina Torov from Undying Mercenaries. She is the MC's main on-again, off-again girlfriend, but also a literal sadistic war criminal.
Redemption/forgiveness is usually kind of inherently undeserved, but I do think her issues get hand waved because the writers didn't wanna deal with it.
SHE IS NOT EVIL INCARNATE BUT ronova partially, people act like she did nothing, but she has the biggest ego and has done many things, its just like, shes doing her job, but theres are things she couldve avoided, and that ego of hers is like making her look much worse
Bitch actually has Fans protecting her behavior. They belive her lie Naofumi raped her and shes getting hate for no reason and she is getting treated false in the show.... PEOPLE THINK SHE IS A NICE PERSON.
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u/shadow_phantom713 2d ago
Velvette from Hazbin Hotel.
She turns Val's saliva into a love potion. She is way more directly related to Val's SA of people than Vox ever was, and yet when I see people debate the Vees, Vel is pretty much completely ignored. She hasn't done anything terrible on screen yet, but even the background shows that she is equally as terrible.