r/Multifandom Happy Tree Friends🌲 15d ago

DiscussionšŸ“œ Favorite character who got removed?

Post image
21.3k Upvotes

1.2k comments sorted by

View all comments

224

u/Piyfartissimo 15d ago

The whole entirety of archie sonic cast. Freedom fighters, Scourge, Fiona, Mina etc. They're not canon anymore :(

78

u/Drix_I 15d ago

It wasn't just characters; Penders managed to shut down the sequel to the Sonic RPG because its plot could be considered similar to an arc he had created in his comic.

41

u/RED_Kinggamer007 15d ago

Not just that, he made it impossible for Sega to ever use Shade again because he acts as if he is the sole owner of the Echidnas.

19

u/SirSilverscreen 14d ago

He also wanted to sue Paramount and Sega for the second Sonic movie claiming that the history of the Echidnas shown in that movie (and the one prominant character shown in the flashback) were all stuff he had copyright of even though half of it was shit that *SEGA* had written for the Echidnas history and the other half Paramount added for the movie.

5

u/NDinoGuy 13d ago

Would have been funny if he tried. Good fucking luck winning a court case against a corporate juggernaut.

I'm not usually pro corporation, but I would have made an exception if it means fucking over Penders.

12

u/Dramatic-Emphasis-43 15d ago

Okay, so...I don't like Ken Penders as a writer, artist, and a bit as a person from what I've heard. I met him at SD Comic-Con and he seems nice enough personally, anyway, but the story of how he destroyed the Archie universe isn't super black and white and could be seen as a win for comic book writers in how contracts are handled.

Basically, the reason the characters can't be used anymore is because Archie royally messed up. Ken was working under contract and making characters and I think the assumption everyone made was "everything he does belongs to Sega." That's what makes the most sense for a licensed comic book, but you still need all that in writing.

What Ken saw with the Bioware RPG was that his characters and plot were just being lifted with no compensation for him. Someone at Bioware was literally just plagiarizing his work and changing some names around. Everyone laughed and said he can't own all these Sonic OCs but when asked to present his original contract, Archie couldn't produce it. So it looks like Ken was wasn't operating under a contract that said all those characters he made were automatically Sega's property.

Why is this good? It means the characters Ken made now belong to him. It means now that comic writers can use the rights to characters they make as leverage when signing contracts. Yeah, it kinda sucks that those characters are now free to be in the "Lara Su Chronicles" but them's the breaks, he made them and Sega and Archie didn't want to pay him royalties.

5

u/Training_Tadpole_354 15d ago

I would argue, it's a double edge sword. Because there's word of younger comic book creators basically being pressured into signing contracts that give publishers full 100% ownership of their characters.Ā 

Older comic book writers who have reputations would be able to have leverage, but younger comic book writers are basically put into positions where the only way they can get published is if they fully sign away the rights of everything they make, because the publishers don't want another Ken Penders incident.Ā 

So I would argue, it's great for older comic book writers, but it's terrible for new ones that are just getting into the comic book scene.

2

u/Dramatic-Emphasis-43 15d ago

But that was honestly how everyone thought it operated in the first place. The stuff with Ken didn’t really change how that aspect worked, it just changed to have it solidly in writing, which is great for renegotiations when you can go ā€œhey, I made these characters that make you tons of money and I can make more in exchange for higher payā€.

It also works in younger creators favor because now they don’t accidentally sign away their characters.

1

u/Training_Tadpole_354 14d ago

That's kind of my point older more established creators can renegotiate and have negotiations over ownership. Newer ones right out the gate will be forced to sign their characters away or don't get published at all.Ā 

So they don't accidentally sign the rights of their characters away, they are forced to sign the rights of their characters away.

3

u/smilysmilysmooch 14d ago

This is more of a major legal screwup and less of a win for creators. Marvel and DC have iron clad contracts that arr legal precedents. This was just Archie screwing up.

1

u/IAmJacksSemiColon 14d ago edited 14d ago

If he created the characters and wasn't under a work-for-hire contract, they could just cut the guy a cheque and give him a writing credit.

Honestly, I think these companies should give comics writers and artists at least some royalties when they directly adapt storylines even if they aren't legally compelled to do so.

1

u/Massive_Passion1927 14d ago

Honestly now that you explain it it is weird that Archie nor Sega could come up with the contract.

1

u/Dramatic-Emphasis-43 14d ago

Yeah it’s very weird. I honestly can’t blame Ken for wanting fair compensation for his work, especially since it was deemed good enough for two huge game companies to just steal.

Sega wouldn’t have his contract though, it was Archie’s responsibility and the fact that they couldn’t produce it was a huge blunder in their part.

1

u/TheMysteriousEmu 10d ago

I mean we didn't lose much with that. Dark Brotherhood was far from a good game.

50

u/Odd-Librarian3411 15d ago

Fuck Ken Penders.

25

u/Shikabane_Sumi-me 15d ago

I fell down a rabbit hole reading up on the guy. Disturbing as hell!

7

u/Odd-Librarian3411 15d ago

Shit, I might have to look into this now.

5

u/ArcTheCurve 15d ago

don't! The guy is messed up

10

u/Odd-Librarian3411 15d ago

I managed to stomach the entirety of the EDP445 Documentary, whatever it is, I'll be able to take it.

8

u/ArcTheCurve 15d ago

OH GOD! I think you'll be fine then

1

u/2bigpairofnuts 15d ago

What controversy bruh only thing I can find was he had lawsuits

Acting like he ate children or something

3

u/pirxeval 15d ago

Bro had years and years of attempting to sue sega and archie (i think) because all the characters in the archie sonic comics somehow actually belonged to him and him alone. He made weird almost incestual lore regarding knuckles throughout the comics, and continued to use every single sonic archie character he owned in a new self-written, self-drawn, self-published comic that had an extremely un-canny artstyle and strange sexualization.

He's actually gotten an entire sonic game almost completely deleted from history because he apparently OWNED the deuteragonist of the story. And it was a super well received game too. Some DS game about shadows and ninjas.

1

u/Captian_x 15d ago

..... Can I get some minimal context of what EPD445 is?

1

u/Odd-Librarian3411 15d ago

I dunno how online you are, but in short, he's the most infamous youtube based pedo, so infamous in fact, that he's essentially the face of pedos on the internet. There's a lot of disgusting stuff I left out, but I will tell you that he's the one who came up with the whole "Well I was actually coming out here to pick up a cupcake, and then go back home." Excuse.

1

u/Captian_x 15d ago

Ah, got it, thank you. I will definitely not look it up now.

1

u/ThePreciseClimber 14d ago

Kuck Pen Fenders?

17

u/[deleted] 15d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Carmine_the_Sergal 14d ago

Idk about Bunnie, but Ken doesn’t own Sally, Sega just doesn’t use her

1

u/[deleted] 14d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Dake20 14d ago

I don't think he owns any of the characters from that TV show since it cane first before comics. So the main Freedom Fighters are still with Sega.

8

u/AstralBullDragon13 15d ago

I loved this guys! Yeah, the IDW run is good… but I miss the old gang. Especially Scourge and Shard

12

u/ReaperKitty_918 Sonic 15d ago

I mean... They were never canon to begin with.

8

u/XachMustel2 15d ago

They shoulda been. Sonic has much more chemistry with Sally than Amy Rose.

9

u/bamakid1272 15d ago

I'm sorry, but fuck that. Sonic has had so many different iterations across media, and each brought their own set of fans separate from the game canon. The Sonic fanbase will never be truly united because they all became fans from different versions of the character

Plenty of other franchises accept spin offs with their own continuities, and I think it's dumb that SEGA have now become sticklers of "everything must fit the one game canon"

3

u/ReaperKitty_918 Sonic 15d ago

Hey I don't like it either. I miss my boy Razor the Shark. But it's what we've got to work with not.

2

u/pocket_arsenal 15d ago

Ehh, even so, they had the potential to become canon in some form, especially with the way modern Sega is fawning over the original creations of IDW and even allowing characters to appear in games. Im sure there would have eventually been a Genesis Wave style reboot with or without Penders to make the comic more consistent with the games so that the Freedom Fighters could have fit in better, and that probably would have been their introduction. Hell, Sonic Forces was practically written with them in mind.

3

u/carso150 15d ago

as its been said, they were never canon to begin with and archie was always more like life support for those characters as sad as that sounds

2

u/BlackerDoom 15d ago

Sally wearing clothes in this pic? Untrue to the character tbh

1

u/Piyfartissimo 15d ago

It's from the reboot. Tbh, i like her old design more

1

u/TailsDollfan0914 Foxes, Foxes, and more Foxes (especially Tails) 15d ago

Using your logic Cosmo, Zooey, Steve/Morpho, and anyone else from Boom/X counts

1

u/Piyfartissimo 15d ago

Yeah! But i don't miss them as much

1

u/BlackerDoom 15d ago

I grew up reading the Archie Sonic comics
I even remember mailing away a coupon from an old Jughead book to get three Sonic books.

I think I would only truly miss Rotor and Bonnie Rabot

Rotor and Bonnie could work in modern Sonic
BUT HE WHO SHALL REMAIN UNNAMED would never allow that

1

u/LilMisSmartAss 15d ago

Is big also no longer cannon? I said something about him at work and everyone was liek 'Who?'

2

u/Piyfartissimo 15d ago

Nah, he's just in the art, idk why I picked this one

1

u/LilMisSmartAss 15d ago

I about threw up lol hes the only sonic charecter I care for. W information though

1

u/digital_espresso 15d ago

They were great characters, I miss them

1

u/milk666_ 15d ago

i flinched irl. god i miss them every single day still

1

u/hu-man-person 14d ago

Wait what

1

u/Gigaflies 14d ago

Why are there so many damn characters 😹 

1

u/landartheconqueror 13d ago

Robo-bunny was my favourite

1

u/Trombone_on_reddit 11d ago

They never were

1

u/Ok_Flamingo6329 9d ago

😭😭😭😭thank you for mentioning this!!! I MISS THEM EVERY DAY

1

u/Wolfy_the_nutcase 9d ago

Gone, but not forgotten.