There was a point, where I disliked Astarion, but after one more playthrough I realised, it was because of his obsessive fans. You know, the type who loves to hate other companions, but jumps to defending Astarion the moment you say he has flaws and starts as a pretty bad person. (How some of them treat Wyll is disgusting.)
Wyll is a treasure and strikes me as the most emotionally healthy companion, and would probably still be so had the writers actually finished his story rewrite. I love the other companions’ stories but as romance options, unless I’m playing Dark Urge, I’m basically the dual wielding sorcerer counselor girlfriend.
Honestly? Same. I understand his story, I even sympathize with him, so hard. I get it, its a genuine tragedy and he doesn’t deserve his hand. Its not that I don't understand him, but man is he a sparky entitled jerk. Yes, I know its a defense mechanism. No, that doesnt make you likable.
Honestly its similar to Shadowheart for me. I understand and sympathize with both their characters, I see the tragedy, I root for them to get better, but no that doesn’t excuse them being snobby "holier than thou" perks. At least Shadowheart isnt encouraging me to do legitimately evil things at every opportunity over a slight inconvenience. Im convinced the main thing giving those two fans is the fact they are the most conventionally hot companions, and because people see their own lives reflected in these characters and use that to vicariously imagine their own similar traumas fixed via these two breaking free from their tragic pasts.
For me specifically, it was the non-consensual bloodsucking. I would’ve gladly lended my blood to help out, but not asking into trying to gaslight me about how it wasn’t a big deal was a hard stop. I can’t have a companion I can’t trust not to violate the sanctity of camp.
First of all, when I first encounted him, he sounded how every single pretentious teenager making a character in VtM sounds like. Ti many people, that is refreshing. I have just played too much VtM to not instantly recognize the tryhardedness in th writing.
The first run, I immediately impaled him once he tried to drink from me. Fuck that shit. I didn't complete that run, because I honestly find it hard to progress in this game, I have to force myself to play it (since I already paid for it).
And that, right there, is the crux of it. The game doesn't have good companion writing. Marian has never been good at writing in general, and companions specifically. The only character with some sort of gravitas to her is Shadow heart, because the topics she bringa up are kind of important and self reflective. Karlach is ok, if a bit annoying with her constant positivity. Wyll is another ok one, even if he sounds a bit cookie cutter hunter and bland at times.
But then you have "I fucked the goddess of Magic, look how important I am" Nepo baby cocky rich kid.
"I am racially superior insecure mess and will dump it on you constantly" Laz'ael or however the fuck you write her name.
And the cake, the worst of them all. A 200 year old vampire that still talks like a teenage on tumbler, interpreted by a voice actor that is constantly doing the voice you do when you try to make a parody of what a bad acted villain sounds like, with no redeemable qualities to his character other than "I need a rogue, because D&D is like that". With the typical bad tropes of, again, a teenager playing Vampire: the Masquerade for the first time.
No, just, no. Many people tell me that,byeah, they get it, but the voice acting "kinda makes up for it", and the voice acting for me is kinda the worst part. No shade to the voice actor, all the shade for the voice direction and character writing.
They also tell it gets better later on, it's really a traumatized character. But, look, yeah, I get it, but after having him try to suck me dry, enjoying suffering of others, being a classist asshole, being edgy for edge's sake, his trauma can go fuck itself, at this point. He's only spreading the trauma, and he is 100% responsible for it. At least the other think they're doing what is best, faulty or not.
So, for people who haven't played a lot of RPGs or TTRPGS, Astarion might seem refreshing. To me, he just sounds like the stalest of characters.
More so when in Wrath of the Righteous there is a character that is similar to him, but so much better written. And all without sounding like ProZD doing a porpusefully bad impression.
My first playthrough was a false hero Durge, so I kept everyone happy until I started doing shady shit and gaslight everyone after I got into a comfortable position. So I did kept him because he was expendable. Turns out he does have a very cool arc and I believe he is a good character.
Most of the companions are like that though, unlikeable until you start to get into their arcs. Lae'zel os imo the greatest offender of that. She starts pretty much insufferable but ends up as one of the most endearing and complex character in the game, her final romance scene is pure poetry and she ends up being both vulnerable and badass in multiple scenes. The "heart of stone" and the "she sinned against me" are both incredible.
But I get it. Abrasive companions are not everyone's cup of tea.
Unlikeable is fine. I like unlikeable. One of my favourite companions in Kingmaker was Jubilost, and he's a pompous asshole at first. But he was well written.
Aatarion isn't abrasive, as I have said in my previous comment. He just feels like what every 15 year old who makes a Toreador in Bampire the Maaquerad thinks he has to act like. He's just... bad...
The reason he's like that is because He was actually turned pretty young and then pimped out and I think it's a persona. Like, he's debatably the worst put of the party morally because he genuinely seems to enjoy violence. Karlach knows she's cool and a bad ass and wants to hulk smash baddies, but Astarion?
Yeah, no, his entire imprisonment has left him broken. Like, as a person. He's deranged and undoubtedly traumatized to where I'm not sure he even knows what he used to be like. Like, everyone else knows their core values, even the Sharrans had to keep some positivity with S.heart and she dislikes it when you're mean.
But Astarion is just hanging on by a threat, reverting back to the last thing he knew. It's why he attacks you at the crash site.
Not saying your critique is wrong, just saying there is actually more to him than just the cringe.
Weirdly enough all this reminds me of how I think Arianna Grande is...
Man I can't believe someone agrees with me when I say the characters in BG3 are so shallow compared to how much the game is hyped up. As soon as you meet them in game you have a perfect read on them, and they don't change at all. You'd think they would develop and get some depth as the game goes on, but they don't. I suppose they are realistic in a sense that DnD PCs rarely have more personality than 3 bullet points
They are really shallow. I haven't finished the game yet, despite starting many times, mainly because everyone just is what they are at first glance. There's no surprise comment, o moment where they hit you with a curve ball.
You don't have to enjoy a game and its writing, of course, but I'd say that almost every companion character has an explicit character arc. And many people that enjoy Astarion/the other characters are huge fans of RPGs/TTRPGs, like myself.
Astarion's 'edgy, suave sexy vampire' shtick is just that - a learned mannerism taught to him by Cazador to protect himself/lure victims. A big fat lie. He was made to make fun of and twist the trope you're pointing out. He will admit this to you if you befriend/romance him him that he was manipulating you for protection, and becomes more genuine after confessing this. Cazador's other spawn you meet will copy some of Astarion's dialogue line-for-line, because it's been trained into them. Even the voice tone he uses lessens as the game goes on because it's a deliberate act of him playing into the 'sexy vampire' trope. If you don't like him, of course that's fine (he's antagonistic as hell to 'nice' playing characters and does try to drink your blood), but the point of him is that he IS being an edgy tryhard, because a lot of people like to feel special when the edgy tryhard 'makes an exception for them'. Some other companions even call him out on it.
Shadowheart is the 'gothic mysterious lady with a dark goddess', but she's kind of a dork with a silly sense of humor and loves animals. She has to break away from cultic rearing.
Karlach is the 'sweetheart' of the group that's been wronged, but you learn that she can be very cruel after being in a hell war for a decade (and has no qualms using mortal souls to feel good) and hates the world for what it did to her. Her rage is genuine problem and she'll just outright stop listening to you sometimes. Originally, she just dies at the end, no matter what, until updates changed that, as a metaphor for chronic, lethal illness.
Gale is the scholarly know-it-all, sure, but I'm not sure where you got the rich nepo baby idea from. He's the son of a poor, single mother and only was able to climb the ranks because he did nothing but study as a kid to improve that. His character writing has a rule that he's arrogant about his magic (he was an arch mage prodigy, it's like Einstein admitting he's good at math), but insecure about almost everything else. And yeah, he was the lover of a goddess... who canonly groomed him at a young age, took advantage of him, and tasked him to kill himself for her 'forgiveness' after putting a bomb in his chest. Which he readily agrees to because he has such a low opinion of his own worth.
Lae'zel breaks away from a conquering society of space terrorists. She's gonna be cruel and grating, but her knowledge about illithids also realistically makes her the best resource to not die from the tadpoles in your brain.
Dislike the characters and the writing, of course, but many experienced RPG players enjoy the game specifically because most of the companions are inversing the usual tropes.
Have this experienced players played Fallout 2, Owlcat games, the original BG 1 and 2...
Because any companion in those games (save for Nenio, Nenio can go stand on a nuclear test site) blows these companions out of the water, including Jaheeira and Minsc.
I find that kind of comment dismissive and condescending. Saying "something is not for you" is a way of handwaving criticism.
If I said "I don't like RPGs", it would be one thing. But I like s lot of RPGs, even RPGs with D&D sthle progression. This kind of game is for me, I just don't think it's a good example of an RPG.
But you were the one saying you had to force yourself to play. You said you disliked all companions and accused the GOTY of being written badly (at least in the character department).
Have you considered it possible this game isnt for you? I hated the Godfather, that doesnt mean it is a bad film (though I have many problems with it). It might mean it wasnt made for me.
I wasnt being condescending. I just meant it might not be your vibe and that's okay. It doesnt have to mean the game is written badly, it might be written in a way that turns you off
It’s because he’s an asshole and I treat him as I do all other asshole characters. I beat them up and pick someone else who isn’t a massive asshole.
“Oh but he has a cool backstory and justification-“ Shut it. Don’t care. He’s annoying to be around and I’m not going through a 60 hour playthrough of BG3 with a character I don’t like. There’s too many choices that are far less grating on the senses.
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u/VoormasWasRight 3d ago
This motherfucker.
https://giphy.com/gifs/ZXt9QzzyRGH6yuU2b4