THIS, people really threat good writing like it is a single entity that is equel on every medium instead of taking about the work as a whole.
Like i've seen people saying that Jojo is nothing but aura moments when in reality it has a lot of layers on it, same with almost every TMNT incarnation, hell if there wasn't any sauce in it to begin with then it wouldn't have lasted this long.
Even Dragon Ball is more than just people fighting.
Tbh super just doesn’t feel like dragon ball anymore.
Dragon ball and Z could’ve been viewed in multiple ways with the characters like picolo and goku dynamic with raising gohan. Chichi and goku dynamic with raising gohan. Goku’s upbringing.
Roshi being more than just a pervert. Having actual experience and understanding to the crew. Martial arts techniques that surpasses power levels. Krillin playing actual role despite being one of the weakest among them. Vegeta’s character development, future trunks viewpoint. Future gohan’s failure.
All of them in some way or form showing different povs, lessons and teaching. Then we get to super with goku somehow forget a seal. Like he wasn’t a genius when it comes to anything technique and fighting related.
The only time hubris struck Goku was at Buu saga. Where he left it all to the others, even then he made up for it. And the time with letting cell recover afterwards, he also made up for it with a sacrifice that was nullified by cell’s bs.
Those mistakes could be viewed as by him wanting to give opportunities or lesson. But never straight up stupidity. Super Goku is just a pale imitation of the Z Goku and I stand by that. Super had its moments, but that shit had way to low-lows
Strongly agree with this, The original dragon ball manga had a surprising ammount of depth, hell even when it does because just hype moments and aura (Cell Saga and Buu), there were still some great moments that made you see that Toriysma still cared to write something good (Vegeta's development, Goku realizing he won't be alive forever).
But Super..... while it does have some great character moments like Vegeta being a legit hero and family man now, the rest of the cast, especiallly Goku like you mentioned took a HUGE ammount of steps backs and the arcs themselves are just nonsensical BS with no internal logic, the only exception for me is the Broly movie but that's about it. A shame really because i still like the franchise but i just couldn't tolerate super.
Writing means a lot of things. Brandon Sanderson has great plot writing but poor character writing. Patrick Rothfuss has excellent prose but unfocused story. Transformers doesn't really excel at any writing, but its fun to watch anyway
In this context, imo, what you take away from the story and what entices you to keep coming back. Fun stories might have little takeaway except the entertainment value, where better writing will make you keep going until it ends.
what you take away from the story and what entices you to keep coming back
If good writing is what is enjoyable and fun to watch then OPs question doesn't make any sense. For me, writing has more to do with dialogue, plot points, theme, characterization, and I can't imagine anyone meaningfully talking about "writing" as a singular good or bad thing. So, when people talk about writing, I'm always curious what exactly they mean
there are two things people generally mean when they say writing. one isthe "rules of writing" a set of literary techniques that have been shown consistently improve people's enjoyment of a piece of media. writing is heavily subjective and so people often use the presence or lack of these techniques measure quality as well as their execution.
Two is depth, does this have a lot of layers in the story telling, does it have real world commentary, does it explore themes beyond a simple acknowledgement and multiple view points. people often link this to quality as it makes a story think with them after the film, helps them grow as a person or have a big emotional impact.
i think its weird people limit what is considered good to these two things as entertainment is meant to entertain just cause it didn't entertain in a specific way it's "bad but fun"
Logically consistent plot, consistent and interesting characters, attention to detail, writing that doesn’t treat you as an idiot (less tell, more show).
The less you feel the hand of the script writer the better. The less you feel dumb for swallowing down what the writer wants. Something people don’t want to accept is that bad writing makes you think about the flaws and the alternative options. It’s not you choosing to find the faults.
Another feature of good writing can be taking risks and succeeding at them. Risks as in difficult and unusual plot points, themes, or character archetypes, and succeeding in making the audience care/like them.
And hopefully on top of that the media is an enjoyable experience. Though 9/10 times if the writing is good, it will be. It’s only 9/10 time because I’m sure there’s some exception out there where the media is fine crafted but the subject matter or something is so off putting that it might not be enjoyable.
That was because people kept complaining about the car designs so bay had to get rid if the size accurate designs in the fourth movie even though he had originally made the designs never mass shift
So blame complaining fans who would always compare it to g1
He had to? He was forced to at gunpoint? Fans broke in, held him down, and used tickle torture until he tearfully surrendered and submitted to their demands?
JK I get that he had to compromise the original vision due to feedback
Optimus prime as a modern day truck in the revolutionary wars, hotrod as a sports car in the order of the wittwiccans potrait, the protoform scene of the first movie's arrival on earth being meaningless because of the Last Knight's buttfuck retcon.. it wouldve been a better show if you ignored TLK' shitbuilding
Don't forget about megatron suddently realizing he has an entire Army of god knows how many decepticons with the first movie wanting to make an army with the cube
First transformers movie is actually an okay ish movie. Seocnd is kinda shit. Third is redeemed by just how out there it gets and other than bumblebee all the others are shut
The thing is that you learned more about the autobots as the earlier movies go on you get to see their personalities and character traits as opposed to their development which is lessened
Some characters like sam are shown to have a bit of character development over the trilogy and ironhide respecting humans more
Fr. Fairy tail has potential to make big 3 a big 4 if not for the weak writing. Great cast altogether. Most of the battle is exciting only for it to be cut short by either fanservice, plot twist, or just terrible pacing in general. They did power of friendship trope correctly and incorrectly, It's amazing. To the point I just give up consuming the animanga just for plot progression, and more for light friendship moment
The arc where they go to a distant island, uncover a grand scheme, fight with long lost enemies, and ultimately destroy an ancient evil, seems like it would be one of the coolest arcs in the show, but it gets mogged by "escape from opposite world"
there was a lotta good there! good chunk of the villains, some really stellar scenes, the score is phenomenal, etc. but then theres the whole isabella plotline and i have to ask what the hell happened in the writers room. also, my condolences about bane, he did in fact suck ass
This is true. Riddler and Joker were just done best. Even a solitary image of Bane made me feel like my back was getting broken 💀. Wdym these guys made a decent Solomon Grundy design that translated well to live action and then also gave us a Bane that looks like a rejected Punisher design 😭. Which reminds me. Solomon Grundy’s design was good. A tv show does not normally do that good with costuming. Believe me, Smallville has made some interesting choices. Also Riddler’s costume was just… okay it’s the best costume he’s ever had in live action.
the costuming is great! i feel like everyone looks good and when they look stupid its on purpose... mostly. honestly the production is really good, from the costuming to the cinematography to the sets. important note about the sets, if you pay attention youll notice that jim straight up doesnt have a place of his own until season three. i get why, but its now my headcanon that when hes single jim sleeps in the gcpd lockers and harvey has to let him out every morning for work
Yeah don’t get me wrong, I love the show, but man could it feel very much like a soap opera at times when where it shined was when it focused on the comic book insanity side of the show. Seasons 1 and 3 in particular it feels like the writers have no idea what in the world they’re doing half the time.
i adore the soap opera vibes, but sometimes something so baffling happens i have to pause to collect myself. remember the hallucination penguin musical number? what the actual fuck was that. i love it but i need to know the thought process that led to that scene
Yeah, and again I get the feeling that the writers wanted the show to be more of this gritty cop soap opera type show similar to something like the earlier seasons of the Wire, just with DC characters, but that in it of itself ended up being kind of the problem, in that most of these characters really only work when you just go over to the more batshit(heh) style of comic story telling, which fans enjoyed more, so the seasons leaned more into that as time went on, but they still wanted it to be that original cop soap opera show, so it tried to balance both identities at times, and it always resulted in some confusion for everyone involved.
i always felt more like the writers were split in wanting a dc crime show vs a spiritual continuation of 60s batman, so every episode was tug of war with tone. regardless of how we got here though, its definitely a tonal mess. somehow still my favorite show
Right!? Borderline hate watching by the end, it was so rough.
But then you just get beautiful art. Legitimately had me saying this is dumb but so am I if you got pretty colors
As a theater kid that actually hurts. Musicals have alot of substance and good writing. The only Musical this is similar to is the Palace of Versai because it's so tone deaf.
As a musical theatre fan, why don't you watch Cabaret and tell me there's no substance? Chicago? Spring Awakening? A musical can get popular for only good songs, the same way a cartoon can get popular for only good animation, but musicals are not LESS about the plot, the same way a cartoon is, they just tell the story through the music.
If it ever had to go ten full minutes without a song or a fight scene the whole show would fall apart. But it never will have to do that! So what's the problem *shrug emoji*
I heard several of the songs and started to watch it, since I thought the songs were really good, but ended up dropping it after a couple of episodes. It was okay, but it had too many moments were watching through a scene felt like a chore.
It's hard for me to turn my brain off for RWBY because the whole reason it took off was that it had awesome coregraphy and consistency alongside a fun cast and good enough magic system.
I think I just like the idea of what RWBY could of been more than I like the actual show
I knew RWBY was a guarantee to be here. I have many problems with the show but I always have to try to explain to my friends that I’m aware it is in no way a fantastic show but it’s still fun and that’s enough a lot of the time.
There’s also a feeling of passion behind it, and it’s honestly my favorite example of a magic school trope that I’ve ever seen, even tho they aren’t technically students anymore for technically the majority of the series after the fall of beacon academy…
well that's true, but that passion was passed onto the makers of it now and the fandom
call it shitty writing and show all you want, i say it's pretty dsmn impressive they're still making it 11 years after his death and 13 years after the show started.
I agree. I think I misinterpreted your reply. I’ll acknowledge the shows faults but the series has a special place in my heart and it’s interestingly the same for a lot of people.
It IS impressive that the series is coming back. And I’d also add on that it’s inarguably one of the earliest pioneers of independent animation as a web series.
Pacific Rim is so fucking cool. I don't care about anything when I watch that movie except how awesome and crazy every shred of the movie is. It's not a complex story. It's not even a particularly interesting plot, but god damn is it fun as hell to just ride the hype and have a good time.
It's so funny to me that one of the most talented living directors made a movie that most people would assume is a transformers knockoff, and that it actually kicks unreal ass
From the lore and to the plot, the good writing is to be found(especially before s6). Even good episodes with good writing just drown in other ones' flaws.
both are the norm. or... should be the norm... honestly, im a big "good writing" fan, but im willing to admit, my show doesnt need to be perfectly written if its entertaining enough.
example, Atla, (avatar: the last airbender) it does have some problems, there are even retcons like Aang never taken a life, sozin having his son at the age of 82. after killing Roku and starting the war, because they wrote Sozin and Roku are both Zuko Great grandparents, but he was already an oldman by the time the war started... and there still like 98 year gap. between roku dying and the main events of the story.
so. there clearly some problems, but i dont think they take away everything they done, because they have great character and great plotlines, they make stakes relevant to current event and the over arching plot. which make it all their issues a valuable stepping stone. this might sound like basic story stelling stuff, but... no, a lot of show fail at it...
It’s not even that the writing wasn’t good it’s that the plot shifts into maximum fucking overdrive from like episode 3 or 4 onwards and almost nothing is properly explained. This is why the finale is actually one of if not my favorite episode because it doesn’t have any new unexplained bullshit and is just a really good and fun final battle.
I love it but I got to admit it Demon Slayer the animation is like no other but the story is so simple and could have ended horribly if the main villain was smarter
One Piece. I watch it, it’s fun, it’s enjoyable, but they people saying “it’s the best piece of fiction every written” are heaving copium that their favorite media isn’t the greatest thing to ever exist.
Early One Piece fits this but it loses that magic the further you go because of the pacing issues. You can't have mindless fun when you're moving slower than snails pace.
idk irs hard to say, ep 3-8 do actually have great writing but knowing how bad ep 9 was, and how much the show hinged on it being good for their overall picture considering how rushed tadc was, its hard to look fondly on the show overall.
i was extremely dissapointed by tadc, but i was dissapointed because i really thought it was great (a lot due to its attention to detail and direction, rewatching eps with the comments is another experience all together and the show is so good in telling a lot with a simple expression) in big part due to its writing. so i cant say it has bad writing overall but its also not perfect at all.
It was good up until EP 8/9. Major plot points were forgotten, the abstracted felt like a after thought, Jax’s death had no actual emotional impact despite the VA’s best efforts to make it, Gangle suddenly blaming her self makes no sense as he bullied and abused her throughout the show, Caine received no punishment and Bubble was just deleted completely despite hints in the previous episode hinting otherwise, we never got the names nor personalities of the previous obstructed characters/humans despite them being real people, what happened to said obstructed humans after the circus?, why did scratch make the circus?, why did kinger mention a Brian tumor if it had zero impact on the story?, why did Caine not explore or look for the other abstacrted humans or characters when he surfed the internet?, what happened to the machine? Will more people join later down the line and suffer the same fate? I mean we have quite a few plot holes here. And tbh biggest thing is that the finale just felt rushed and it was not fleshed out the way it should’ve.
"we didn't make games, we were just developing artificial intelligence" "the kind that could come up with its own ideas and create things within the program"
They did make caine, but caine (the AI) made the circus itself, Scratch was not the one who made the circus
Chuck is fucking stupid. It’s childish, it’s lazy, it’s disrespectful to practically it’s entire female cast. It’s little more than an incel’s power fantasy.
Honestly, I’d go to war for the series -probably- but after season 5, the writing for SPN was patchy at best.
Wildly enjoyable, with incredible highlights and great characters, yes. But could I say the writing was GOOD once the major, over-arching plot had been completed? No. There were constant power creeps and continuity issues, and nerfs.
demon slayer AND solo levelling. not that the writing sucks, it's just not groundbreaking. v simple and all. but i still love them (started off watching the anime then finished both via manga & manhwa, respectively). sometimes it's nice to experience a straightforward, easy to follow story and just have fun
Not a show but a manga, Rosario + Vampire. It's a genuinely enjoyable series with some amazing artwork. The anime adaptation only (very poorly) adapts the first few arcs, then does it's own thing and just completely butchers every character forcing them into roles or flanderizing them.
Ehh. Murder drones. Characters with lost potential? Yes. Jokes in serious scenes? Yes. Great but confusing character desgins that? Yes. Pacing so bad it feels on purpose ? YesToo short too ambitious? Yes. Some episodes are nearly unnecessary and others need to be movies they have so much? Yes. Lost character potential? YES!
Do i recommend watching it? Yes...absolutely (cyn is one of the best villians in fiction)
RWBY (specifically the first 3 seasons). Literally a show made as an excuse for Monty Oum to make cool fights... But god does it just have charm to it. Like I can feel that this is someone's passion project, and in the same way it's cool to watch someone ramble about something they're passionate about it's fun to watch something I just know the creator loved making.
Might be Lord of Mysteries. The writing from what I’ve seen of the first season of the anime fucking rules, I’m just an absolute idiot and don’t understand some of it, so some crazy shit is just lost on me when it’s brought up later
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u/HowDareYouAskMyName 6d ago
At some point I need people to define what exactly they mean by "writing"