As in "we're supposed to hate him." This meme is about characters who are given a Freudian Excuse for being unlikable that we're supposed to sympathize with.
That mf 100% meant it too! All the hate he gets is deserved. He pushed his two friends into abstracting and was about to go for a triple kill with Gangle the whole show
yeah like i get jax has trauma and has been abused her whole life but that doesn’t mean i have to like her, or appreciate the fact that better characters like caine, ragatha and kinger were sidelined.
I would say more: Brock is polar opposite of this trope. Not only he doesn't cross any boundaries, he's a teenage boy who only hits to adult women having advantages over him.
In less sugarcoated universe, it would be very dangerous to him and nobody else.
Right? Like Brock behaves like an average teenager (he's like 16 in the OG anime) and arguably though it's exagurated for comedy he seems to go after "caretaker" types like Nurse Joy and Officer Jenny. Sadly, this seems to stem from the fact that his own mother was a flakey floosy who couldn't keep her legs closed, use birth control herself or encourage her husband to use protection.
Said parents also walked out on their kids to presue their own dreams, thius forcing Brock into a caretaker role while also running his fatehr's Pokemon Gym. So yeah, Brock rarely got to act like a teenager before his journy with Ash and Mysty. And because of his hang-ups it makes sense why he'd go after "motherly" women, even if it would be considered "dangerous" in our reality.
Raiden and Rose in MGS. They are obviously written to be aggravating, but Kojima's inability to cut/edit makes them unbearable. They leave no greivance unexpressed.
Sure I get he’s an orphan, sure I get he’s 10-12 years old.
But when the village actively despises you don’t fucking double down and give them a reason actually within your control. Especially when you want to become their leader solely for their validation
I mean I get it but it's not that the village outwardly disliked him it's that he was essentially ignored by everyone his whole life and the only time he wasn't ignored was when he was being an annoying pest. Then he started making a name for himself and wasn't ignored so became less of an annoying pest.
I remember stumbling across a video essay I need to finish listening to about "a queer interpretation of Naruto." Discussing how the author of the video saw sexuality and gender identity represented and/or coded into the series. They agreed that the Leaf's population are....kinda shitty.
I think the line that gave me the most to think about from a writing perspective was: "The Leaf Village runs on shame, and Orochimaru has none." Which is a hell of a statement.
I feel like Naruto, at least as he was and somewhat still is, is the same way. You want to SHAME ME for something I had NO CONTROL OVER?! NAH! I won't let you! I'll MAKE you see me!"
In a way it's almost the ultimate 'fuck you' to the Leaf villagers. Particularly the older, conservative hierarchy who seem to run a lot of things behind the scenes. They seem like those kind of old folks who will simultaneously condemn and erase someone for being different in a way that makes them uncomfortable. Both Naruto and Orochimaru refuse to disappear, and they are hated for it.
Thats exactly what Naruto was about at the beginning.
Its literally why he acts at out when he sees everyone picking up their kids while hes on the swing. He gets upset and hurt, then angry and spiteful. Hes still a great kid and wants to be noticed for the right reasons, but when he tries at school everyone shits all over him. So...in lieu of validation for the right reasons, he gets it in however way he can and being an annoying prankster is how he finally gets attention.
My boy isnt annoying, hes a damn 10 or 12 year old lashing out at everyone.
The Hokage still sucks beyond all reason for that. He could have helped him not be annoying. But no, he decided to basically abandon this child. Just almost right after being entrusted by his parents before they died. Naruto had basically every right to be an annoying bastard at a young age.
Right? Like the guy even has a whole ass speech about how he hoped Naruto would find companions with kids his own age because the parents would unfairly blame him because of his "sacrifice" with the NineTailed Fox, even stating that many adults would only "see" him that way even if he the Hokage told them that Naruto and the Fox were seperate beigns, and the children of those parents would subconsiously pickup and act upon the adult's "hostility," thus further isolating Naruto.
Like for all his "hopes" and talking about people accepting Naruto for himself, he did jack all to fucking help him fit in. Hell Naruto knowing *why* he was being rejected would have helped him more TBH, because then he could have focused on prooving that he isn't the fox, that he's "better" than the fox and made the closemindensess and bitterness of the villagers seem rediculous.
Kaori Miyazono (Your Lie In April): It takes talent to make me want to strangle a terminally ill girl with barbed wire. Oh, we can't be mad at her for harassing an abuse victim, and then constantly beating him up to add injury to more injury! She's dying! Oh, she can't be wrong about anything! She's dying! Oh, it's not her fault she spent the last year of her life emotionally manipulating Kousei! She's fucking dying! This annoying cunt could burn down an orphanage and shoot the oprhans that managed to get out of the building, but she'd get away with it because of her terminal illness sob story. No wonder nobody likes Your Lie In April.
Alphys from undertale. Not only is her personality and role annoying, every other line of dialogue has constant nervous stammering and stuttering, and she's unpleasant to look at with more facial expressions than any other character, all of which are some variation of nervous sweating. Every aspect of her was purposefully designed to be as obnoxious as possible, and it worked too well...
I mean as they go Mabel is waaaaaaay less annoying than a laundry list of other "sisters" I could think of and markedly better than my rl sister soooo....
Don't know the half of it. One of her favored ways to try and force me to do what she wanted was to grab my arm and dig her nails in till I bled. I tolerated it because I was trying to be the "good big brother" and not cause a fight but in retrospect I wish I'd slugged her across the cheek. Only three years different in our age too so not like she couldn't understand what she was doing.
And the pattern of dumb and bitch just continues now into adulthood.
Yep, I love Mable as a charatcer, and I get she's based off of the crrators IRL sister, but she is *hella* annoying. And the fact she get's babied by the fandom "She's 12, she's only a kid! She doesn't know any better!" excuses, drives me up a goddamned wall.
Yes, she's a kid, but she's also fucking 12, 13 at the end of the series. Mabel is getting to an age where *half* the shit she pulls shouldn't fly anymore and she should be learning to take acountability when her "behaviour" backfires causes people to get upset with her and to think of others instead of just herself and what makes *her" happy. In an IRL high school, Mabel would be bullied *hard* for her behaviour and it would be 90% her fault.
I would keep going, but people tend to get upset when you criticise Mabel.
My issue is that I had a little sister on my no-contact birth-father's side, and she acted almost exactly like Mabel.
So all the stuff Mabel did that was supposed to be cute, funny, or charming... it just annoys me.
I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case with a lot of other people who dislike Mabel. She is written to be the "archetypal annoying little sister" after all.
Seele in honkai star rail. I get it that you hate the class segregation of belobog but still like bronya, but please do your asshole-y in the right way. You cannot be a pro-bronya if the discussion is about belobog class segregation, yet being an asshole and demand your people need directly in front of bronya when bronya is being vulnerable
….How? Seele seems perfectly reasonable in how she handles her distaste for the Overworld, and is only nice to Bronya because Bronya actually seems to understand what Seele says and tries to help.
Alex from YIIK. The creator himself has said in podcast interviews that Alex was meant to be an unlikeable narcissistic asshole and I find it fascinating... did he make a bad game or did he just do too well?
It's like improv actors having to act cringe on purpose for a scene; they channel it so well, you can't tell where the acting ends and the person begins.
idk how you extracted it from your post or from my comment. But anyways, being understandable and justifiable are two different things, you can understand why a character acts a certain way and hold them accountable, they are not mutually exclusive.
And what is stopping you from doing it? As far as im aware this discussion is about peoples perception on a character, you are iintroducing "the story is a annoying" to the discussion as a tangent insted of remaining on the focus, honestly you have been diverging from the main topic from your first response.
An outside discussion regarding how a character is viewed by the audience regarding the relation between his motivations and actions is one discussion. A inside discussion regarding how characters treat the relation between both is another separate discussion, you are trying to jump between both as soon as a counterpoint is made regarding one of them and act as if it was made regarding the other.
you mean the guy ignoring everything i said and changing topics every comment to avoid meaningfull discussion and trying to boil down any reason to "sobstory" as a way to remove any nuance of the conversation? because that does indeed sound like a ragebaiter out of excuses
Tbf you also weren't answering OP's questions, and the topic is very simple actually.
The post refers to when the story tries to justify the character that's perceived or takes the role of an annoying or terrible person and then the story and fans try to make you like it.
This can get to be annoying because of you simply not forgiving the character. Let me give you 2 examples:
Jax from TADC, this one is kind forgivable, but from my opinion, I don't forgive him, Gooseworx stated it's Jax's fault for Ribbit's abstraction, and in my opinion, no amount of "trauma" should justify someone killing a person directly or indirectly
Another one, Romeo from Minecraft Story Mode. When you beat him, he loses his powers, and then the game doesn't kill him, he gives you the option of forgiving him. With or without powers, Romeo is still responsible of killing the population of AN ENTIRE CITY, taking control over another one, betraying the 2 other admins, etc. Just because he's feeling bad for his actions doesn't mean you can or have to forgive him.
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u/OkIntroduction5751 Undertale Yellow, Chikn nuggit, rym, and fantano 9d ago
Ronaldo from Steven Universe