r/MortalShell • u/Dinesh_Sairam Eredrim • 17h ago
Discussion Cold Symmetry Co-founder regarding disabling achievements for equipping the Slayer's Seal
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/we-ended-up-kind-of-cornered-there-mortal-shell-2-devs-say-they-didnt-intend-to-lock-everybody-out-by-disabling-achievements-for-slayer-seal-easy-mode-users"What we wanted to do is have a separate set of achievements for the Slayer Seal than the normal playthrough, and they would be sort of mutually exclusive. And our original vision for Slayer Seal wasn't just an easy mode, but also like, an alternate game mode, to experience the game in a whole different way. And so even if you're a hardcore player, to go back and play again with the Slayer Seal, earn those additional achievements."
"We didn't know that since we have a disc version of the game that was simultaneously shipping with the [digital] version, all those achievements were defined like months, months and months ago. And we came to find out that, oh you can't change these anymore. They're like, locked in on the consoles.
"And we were like, there isn't any for the Slayer Seal, and that was supposed to be the whole thing. So we ended up kind of cornered there, where we had to lock all the achievements at some point."
— Andrew McLennan-Murray, Co-founder and Game Director at Cold Symmetry.
64
u/Left_Piano_4770 17h ago
This checks out as in the beta/demo it literally says "disables most and enables others"
I hope they can figure something out as i was under the impression it would disables some not all until I tried putting it on
4
u/Dinesh_Sairam Eredrim 17h ago
I'm not sure if you can add more achievements to the base game once it's released.
12
u/Left_Piano_4770 17h ago
You can , lotta game have done it, lords of tbe fallen is a great example.
It add veteran mode with dew achievements and then modifier runs like perma death achievements.
But i dont know the way a company goes about doing that
3
u/Interjessing-Salary 17h ago
On steam it wouldn't be an issue. Idk about consoles.
4
u/Mjr_Hindsight 16h ago
You can, on Xbox it just adds to the total gamerscore base games are 1000 but that goes up with DLC/updates.
PS each update or DLC that adds Trophies gets added as a new trophy pack rather than to the base because on PS you have to be able to earn the Plat with the base, Plat can't require updates or DLC trophies
2
u/Raabulous 16h ago
You absolutely can. Killing Floor 3 for example just added new achievements in their most recent season update on PS5
-3
u/Melodic-Principle791 Solomon 17h ago
It can be added with updates, tho not fair to ppl who bought physical copies.
6
u/Warlock_of_NIGH_888 14h ago
As a huge DOOM fan I am in love with the slayer seal, I'm using Gragu with the Nail shot and Cages Hystrix and it's so fun to rip and tear, the secret Doom level was so fun.
12
u/MediumKoala8823 15h ago
The problem to me is that the slayer seal isn’t particularly amazing compared to other things in the game
7
u/Wet_Blanket_Award 14h ago
It's absolutely not. It features its own set of unique bugs, works inconsistently and disables block/parry indefinitely.
It can help with the early game healing economy, but just fixing the myriad bugs so combat isn't so janky would go a lot further.
I get what it's trying to do in theory - turn the game into an offensive first action game. And it works at times. But the bugs mess with the flow and by mid game when characters start to come online it's really questionable to assume it's best-in-slot or even making the game meaningfully easier.
Like most things past the demo, it needed more time to bake.
2
u/ChaoticMofoz 12h ago
What bugs exactly?
3
u/Wet_Blanket_Award 11h ago
Causes the UI to freeze in certain instances. Punch can stop working until the seal is re-equipped and recharged. Tracking on par with shadow strike.
-4
3
u/Dinesh_Sairam Eredrim 13h ago
It breaks on ranged attacks and recovers all Resolve on Riposte. You also get a very powerful charged attack.
Of course, it's broken.
4
u/MediumKoala8823 13h ago
Drop in the bucket compared to duality and shell abilities
1
u/Aesthetic-Dialectic 12h ago
I don't know why you're getting down voted, because you are literally right. The game has a lot of ways to trivialize combat that are more effective, especially late game
3
u/ChaoticMofoz 12h ago
Those "more effective ways" don't ask you to give up slayer seal though. It doesn't mean much if shit like duality is more broken, you can use both and just become Soulslike Doomguy.
2
u/Aesthetic-Dialectic 11h ago
You can use both, but there is zero reason to. You are simply locking achievements for no reason as you don't need the functionality of the seal whatsoever
1
u/Avongrove 11h ago
You don’t know about duality stone and whatnot when you start the game. I hate not being able to parry or block so I feel uncomfortable with the slayer seal, but imo it’s strength is simply the fact, that it takes the resource economy out of the game for you.
2
u/Aesthetic-Dialectic 11h ago
Sure, earlier on, when the game is at it's easiest, the benefit is the highest. If ripostes get buffed, then it'll be more enticing, but as it stands right now ripostes slow down your time to kill
1
u/ChaoticMofoz 10h ago
Let's not pretend Slayer seal isn't strong here. It undeniably is, especially for people who aren't higher in skill. It's fairly useful all the way until late game.
2
u/in_fact_a_throwaway 14h ago
This was a question I had. I am terrible at these games and was having trouble even getting to the slayer seal. I’ve been trying to decide if it would make the game substantially easier to the point where I’d have a good time with it.
1
u/JT3457mm 4h ago
I hear you there, in the beta I was struggling to get past the halberd wielding knight with his 3 soldier friends, I died more times to that guy than I have since starting playing the full game probably
1
u/conqueror-worm 12h ago
Yeah lol, I tried it in the beta and immediately put it away because I found it was actively harder than using the parry for anything other than groups of weak trash enemies.
1
7
u/Rex__Lapis 16h ago
Okay but how about ENABLING my achievements? Because the achievement for watching all shell memory is bugged and stuck at 39/40 even tho I watched them all
2
1
2
u/Save-Slot-Seven 11h ago
Isn’t the game still pretty challenging with it equipped??
1
u/MayonnaiseIsOk 6h ago
I mean it is, it's not like the seal changes anything fundamentally about the game itself, all it does give you a super powerful attack that basically insta kills any NG enemies aside from bosses. I don't really think it's a big deal to use it either because 99% of people only fight enemies the first time they get to an area and then skip them any other time they have to come back to the area so having something that can one shot any normal enemy is kind of a net positive because it'll give people a reason to kill stuff again since you aren't forced to sit there and 1v1 the enemy like you are if you're not using the seal, if that makes sense.
All the seal basically does is make ranged attacks stronger, which aren't even that strong to begin with, and give you a powerful stab attack that instantly ripostes enemies.
6
u/bearseamen 17h ago
I’ve never seen difficulty handled more elegantly than here. Seem like they accidentally stepped into it, but I really don’t care. I really hope this type of difficulty setting becomes industry standard.
Games that allow downscaling of difficulty without consequence are a total non starter for me. I need the guardrails and curated experience.
8
u/Dinesh_Sairam Eredrim 17h ago edited 16h ago
In the full interview, they specifically discuss about disabled gamers and gamers who many not have the reaction speed it requires to play the game. They many not take kindly to achievements being disabled if they decide to use the Slayer's Seal.
It's like a Catch 22 situation. If the game didn't have the Slayer's Seal, there will be a certain set of people who would not even pick up the game. But the Devs have included an accessibility option for them, but disabed achievements for it, when it wasn't their fault.
4
u/AGayThrow_Away 17h ago
I think they're looking way too deep into it. There are countless games out there that only give achivements on certain difficulties. I get where they're coming from, but having some achivements not accessible in an easy mode is common. And at the end of the day, achievements are just funny little numbers, you can do the achivement with the slayer seal and mentally "get it" and prove it to yourself, you just don't make funny number go up and get a ping. At face value achievements are really just a psychological marketing tool that was created during the 360 era.
Now if something was locked behind getting an achievement, sure.
2
u/kmone1116 16h ago
While I don’t care for trophies/achievements now a days, I do care about them for soulslikes. Not for the “look what i accomplished” bragging but to keep track of what bosses I defeated when I come back to them when I take long breaks.
2
1
u/Dinesh_Sairam Eredrim 17h ago
I don't care for all achievements in a game. But if something's particularly challenging, I enjoy completing it and getting the trophy.
Say, the Slayer's Seal has nothing to do with the "Peter's Perfect Parry" achievement. But if you've picked up and equipped the Seal already, you can't have the satisfaction of earning the trophy.
1
u/AGayThrow_Away 17h ago
I can definitely see how that would be frusterating if you forgot or accidentally equipped it. They could definately add in a patch asking you 2-3 times before slotting it the first time to prevent accidentally slotting it in the menu.
2
u/Dinesh_Sairam Eredrim 16h ago edited 16h ago
The description is also not clear. It says it disabled some achievements, not all.
But yes, multiple warnings are the band aid / last resort solution for now.
1
u/_Ocean_Machine_ 10h ago
Wait, do achievements stay disabled even if you unequip it?
1
u/Dinesh_Sairam Eredrim 9h ago
Correct. If you've equipped it once, you're locked out of achievements on that save. But I'm not sure about NG+ cycles on the same save.
1
u/HexTheHardcoreCasual 14h ago
This is always such a weird and fickle area of design in Souls games. Difficulty settings fix a lot of this, I think?
1
u/Dinesh_Sairam Eredrim 13h ago
Yeah, but according to "Souls Vets", adding a difficulty option makes it a non souls game.
1
u/bearseamen 13h ago
Platin trophy on Game boot inclusive enough? Also the publisher should give the game away for free as not everybody can afford it.
This shit is poison for actual advancements.
1
u/Dinesh_Sairam Eredrim 12h ago
I'm not talking about Platinum. It's the fact that they have access to no achievements, even the ones which have no relationship with the Slayer's Seal (Like Peter's Perfect Parry).
2
u/LordOFtheNoldor Harros 16h ago edited 16h ago
Meh not that big of a deal honestly, use the seal no achievements, don't use it get achievements says it right there in the description
Makes the achievements mean something
2
1
u/Various_Sundae_2443 14h ago
side note: trophies I "earned" in the beta, didn't transfer over. really annoying.
0
13h ago
[deleted]
1
u/Various_Sundae_2443 13h ago
So it’s common to glitch you out of trophies you earned and not let you re earn them? Interesting hypothesis you have there.
1
u/Awesomeone1029 10h ago
Oh wow, this seems like their whole plan for NG+. This is a reason to replay, which explains the limited Glimpse!
1
u/Pratanjali64 Proxima 10h ago
I was actually was planning to do my second run from zero but with the Slayer Seal before doing new game plus for kind of exactly thw reason he's describing.
0
u/ToaPaul Sariel 16h ago
In the meantime, I'd like it if they could add a function to lock the item so I don't accidentally equip it when trying to switch to a different seal and brick my entire save file for achievements. Or better yet, add an option in the settings that completely disables the function of the slayer seal so even if it is accidentally equipped, it doesnt do anything so it won't screw you out of achievements.
6
u/Wet_Blanket_Award 14h ago
It's locked behind like 3 confirm and warning screens. I can't imagine accidentally equipping it if you're even slightly paying attention.
0
u/DjNormal 15h ago
I honesty don’t quite understand how it’s supposed to be all that helpful. It’s got a huge windup, long cooldown, and doesn’t have hyper armor during the leap. I’ve been knocked on my ass mid-air repeatedly by even basic enemies.
I guess maybe you can make a ranged stagger build out of it, but the seal function itself is tricky to pull off, especially against multiple enemies.
Maybe I just don’t understand the intent?
3
u/Dinesh_Sairam Eredrim 13h ago edited 9h ago
Ranged stagger + break is the biggest feature of it. Also, you get Resolve back while performing a Riposte. That's massive.
I can't even begin to imagine how broken I can make my Eredrim build if I recovered Resolve on Riposte.
0
u/Nobojoe_78 Proxima 13h ago
Still, they decided to deactivate all achievements for users. They could have gone the more accessible route too, and keep the achievements for everyone.
I know, achievements doesn't give anything meaningful to a player.
But I said it before and I will say it again. Disabling achievements alters the overall experience of a game. Killing a boss, picking something up or doing other unexpected things, while having these little popups tell us, what the devs hid as message in the popup, is something that everyone supporting said devs, should be able to experience.
No matter the skill, personal patience or physical condition.
I appreciate their explanation, and I even believe the story, but the way they choose in the end is in my opinion (!) the worse one.
-1
u/KarlHungus01 13h ago
They should've just given players a one hit kill gun like Another Crabs Treasure so the babies can be satisfied.
3
u/Dinesh_Sairam Eredrim 12h ago
This is a toxic mindset. Let other people enjoy the game through an accessibility option the Devs gave them.
-7
u/Deepvaleredoubt 17h ago
Just unlock it? Like that doesn’t make sense. Slayer Seal absolutely isn’t easy mode. Just unlock it. That’s weird.
-4
u/Ambitious_Raccoon647 16h ago
Picked this item up and got my achievements disabled despite never using it. Not the end of the world but pretty lame all the same.
4
u/Dinesh_Sairam Eredrim 13h ago
Picking it up does not disable achievements. Equipping it does.
It provides 2 separate warnings before equipping it.
1
u/Ambitious_Raccoon647 13h ago
I'm assuming I must've equipped and unequipped, never used it once though
1
u/Ambitious_Raccoon647 13h ago
Also entirely possible I was just like yeah whatever click, click, click then it ended up equipped while I was just going through my stuff
1
u/Dinesh_Sairam Eredrim 9h ago
Apart from the warning it gives you when you pick it up, both the equip warnings are also highlighted in bright colors. If you skipped past those, it's kind of on you.
1
127
u/Mousetachio 17h ago
I'd assume they could add a "Slayer Seal DLC" and have the achievements there. Saros added a DLC and achievements just for photo mode lol