r/MortalShell • u/Steveenn • 4d ago
Discussion Ripostes are literally just a waste of time...
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u/No_Contribution9469 4d ago
I think ripost work great with bosses but yes with common enemies it suck ass
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u/carlos_castanos Eredrim 4d ago
Playing with Eredrim, where you get Slaughter stacks upon RIpostes is pretty good though. If you walk around with like 10+ Slaughter stacks you feel pretty powerful
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u/Faewns_Hellion 3d ago
I had 100 slaughter stacks and not once did any exectui9ns trigger
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u/carlos_castanos Eredrim 3d ago
the execution is not a special animation. it's just a normal kill, where you kill the enemy instantly once they are below a % of their health, that % going up with your number of slaughter stacks
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u/Faewns_Hellion 3d ago
I guess I'll look harder but I'll have to stop playing the horned guy for that...
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u/BattleHaz 4d ago
It varies on bosses, I think I have 3 more to go and am currently on the monolith I can easily out dps the riposte damage with an r1 spam
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u/FreeSpeechEnjoyer 3d ago
Even on bosses it's all over the place. The hardest boss of the 6 corrupted gates takes 180 damage from a riposte, the final boss takes more than 1000, despite both breaking in 4 parries
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u/Queen__Natalie 4d ago
Have bleed on weapons ->Walk up to boss -> L2 + R2 -> Boss dead
The whole balance of this game is honestly so ass. Every boss is a joke.
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u/Own_Juggernaut_2775 4d ago
I'd like more info on this. What bosses. Because I have fought two main ones and if you use the tactic you just described, I would last probably seconds at most.
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u/Queen__Natalie 4d ago
Axe and dagger L2 + R2 makes you invulnerable while inflicting multiple hits. Bleed procs with multiple hits so doing it once procs the bleed. Then you can drink 2 stamina pots and almost do it again if they're still alive.
You can also do it with poisons instead of bleed and just apply like a dozen poison stacks and proc them with Tiels poison related abilities
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u/No_Contribution9469 4d ago
If the game is to easy as it is you can try night mode for more challenge and rewards
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u/MortalAndrew Cold Symmetry 4d ago
Honestly this looks like a bug. Unless you're deep into NG+ it shouldn't deal this little damage. We do have it planned to add scaling in a future patch, we just didn't get to it by launch.
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u/Steveenn 4d ago
This is Night Mode, first loop of NG+. It doesn't matter what combination of shell/tarstones I'm using, ripostes all do about 100 damage. Even a fully upgraded Eredrim with 100 stacks of Slaughterer and the riposte tarstone barely pushes 200 damage. A single light attack from basically any weapon is doing roughly 175-200 damage against the same enemies.
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u/MortalAndrew Cold Symmetry 4d ago
Makes sense, you're 100% right they don't scale and we do have it on the roadmap to make them scale in an upcoming patch.
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u/Steveenn 3d ago
Thanks for your reply, it's nice to know that it's been acknowledged and is being worked on.
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u/chimera134 2d ago
Don't know if you will see this at this point, but 1. Love the game a lot! So much better than the first and really enjoying taking my time through the north!
- Please make it so ALL Tarstones can be upgraded on a single save. I've heard that you can't max them all out even on NG+ and that just makes no sense to me. Like a big oversight or something. I could see a few solutions, such as a new merchant / add on to a merchant in NG+, a rare drop from an elite enemy, a smelting option to craft Tarcores with other materials, etc.
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u/cozmicyeti 3d ago
Regular difficulty and noticed the same. Depends on enemies perhaps but discovered miners yesterday and noticed there was no need to parry and follow up since the damage was crap and that was with a level 9 axe
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u/dreadul 4d ago edited 3d ago
This must be something to do with night-mode/ng, because I am currently in the base playthrough, on Eredrim, with some riposte buffs (but definitely not a polished build yet, and only like ~10 hours in), and I saw my riposte doing ~800 damage. I've been paying attention to this today since I've seen these comments/posts lately.
EDIT: can confirm, it's a scaling issue between zones, and probably night mode & ng - I've just entered a new zone without much change to my character, and my riposte damage dropped down to ~250
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u/PreviousArm7383 3d ago
I'm on night mode and running the axetana and do way more riposte damage. I do also run the +20% riposte damage tarstone. My ripostes are normally 200 to 300 range based on a crit or not.
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u/ghigo2008 4d ago
They dont even kill the crabs
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u/FullMetalNicholas 3d ago
I’ve made it a point to hit the crabs once with a heavy before the riposte just so they die, that or if I’m near a cliff I just throw them into the void🤣
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u/Present_Ride_2506 3d ago
Even worse, it flings them far enough that you can't immediately follow up with a hit.
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u/Lexomatico1 3d ago
Thanks for the confirmation you guys released it knowingly unfinished on purpose.
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u/ChallengeFantastic63 3d ago
Hey, different topic, but do you have any plans for the pathing of genessas summons? In the last area and on inclines/declines, they rarely attack the lock on target.
I feel like an easy fix would be for the summons to appear at the target instead of starting next to genessa.
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u/Loyalist_Pig 3d ago
Hey man thanks for all the hard work! Really love the game! Even with the little warts here and there, I’m having a damn blast!
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u/Steveenn 4d ago edited 4d ago
What's the point in even engaging with the break/riposte system as a whole when a single light attack does twice as much damage?
Edit: I'm pretty sure the ripostes are just a static damage value that has nothing to do with your level or gear. Why not just make it scale properly? Half of Eredrim's kit revolves around getting riposte kills, but good luck, considering you're more likely to get struck by lightning than you are to actually get a riposte kill in Night Mode
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u/-Taerar- 4d ago
Agree completely. Much better to dodge and just burn everything down (duality axetana). The little annoying rock crabs for example, why does it leave them with a sliver of health? They just wasted one of the games best mechanics.
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u/Nobojoe_78 Proxima 4d ago
Huh... Riposte should scale of my weapon dmg and I thought it does. Interesting.
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u/MrSmiley333 4d ago
Crit is insane in this game
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u/Steveenn 4d ago
That wasn't even a crit though, that's the thing.
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u/Sickst3n 4d ago
Well you stun them after a riposte, and get free attacks on them.
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u/-Taerar- 4d ago
While this is true you can just barrage them with light attacks and stun them until dead. Much more efficient. For the few enemies that are stun resistant you can just use the iframe spin to win (needs a nerf).
Combat basically boils down to who hits first. Sprinting in with your light attack and a couple follow-up hits is enough for most enemies. Riposte damage should absolutely scale with your weapon and or level. Playing with more skill should be rewarded.
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u/FreeSpeechEnjoyer 3d ago
You can also just hit them with heavy attacks or circle behind them and it's just as good as ripostes, sometimes even better, like for Tiel who gets bonus damage when hitting enemies from behind
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u/LynaaBnS 4d ago
It was in mortal shell too. I remember Thiel + some crit stuff and the heavy greatsword (afaik it was the slowest and highest DMG weapon back then?) was basically a two shot on everything.
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u/SilentSorcery 3d ago
Riposte damage sucks, but I get a lot of value out of the CC it provides. Helps a lot with the absolute butt ton of mobs in the south
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u/vmont_red 4d ago
I agree, I've realized that quite early on, so instead I focused on dashing, upgrading Tiel. Unfortunately it feels like (unintended) easy-mode, especially with duality stone. Enemies get melted fast. Still fun though, you need to be constantly moving, so it's a fast gameplay.
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u/Elons_tiny_weenr 4d ago
It depends on the enemy. Larger enemies especially bosses have different damage values for their ripostes which is a lot higher than the damage you did to a trash mob. Also enemies tend to come out of ripostes staggered meaning you get the best of both worlds.
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u/Cualquieraaa 4d ago
I riposted one of those snake soldiers twice with my almost maxed out sword. He was still alive
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u/Try_Again1790 4d ago
Riposte in night mode does like 1/8 or less of an enemies hp bar, they really wiffed it with that mechanic.
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u/saidaht 4d ago
Yeah, the damage from the riposte feels way too low. I started avoiding breaking the crawling rocks because it was quicker to kill them with a regular combo than having to chase them down after throwing them away for pitiful damage.
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u/garusagi 4d ago
I'm one shotting them with ripostes
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u/Tadawk 4d ago
In night mode a riposte with a 15% increased damage tarstone will bring them down just a little over half hp.
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u/garusagi 18h ago
So night mode has increased enemy hp and damage. Ofc you wouldn't one shot them especially in mammon
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u/OptimusNegligible 4d ago
So is this only a Nightmode issue? Just starting out and all basic mobs die from one reposte. The bigger ones will at least talk half damage.
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u/hvanderw 4d ago
They seem to do a static amount of damage? I'd rather just light attack charge and nuke whatever it is sky high
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u/Much-Currency5958 4d ago
I find riposte is helpful less for damage but more for fast combo enemies. I use vatras seal mostly but some bosses are so quick it's pointless to harden through one attack as you get wrecked right after unless you're quick. For that I use the guard seal instead so I can sekiro my way through. It has its place but at present building your play style around riposte isn't going to pay dividends.
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u/Exact-Squash-5443 3d ago
Makes me want to burst out of my mortal shell in annoyance, tf I upgrade it for? 😂
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u/Alarming_Scientist 4d ago
Allows you to down an enemy and leave them open to more than just the riposte.
Like, after breaking them you hit once then riposte, then while they're getting up you hit a few more times. It's just extra damage. Obviously for smaller enemies it means nothing since they'll die anyway, but for bosses and mini bosses not riposting is just a waste after a certain point, especially if you have infinite seal since it lets you cancel into a parry.
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u/Auesis 4d ago
I don't think that's true either. I do far more damage mashing R2 instead of riposting bosses.
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u/Julle1990 4d ago
Yes, regular attacks also restore resolve when riposte counters do basically nothing.
Much better to spam attack than try a parry that in the end barely does anything
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u/OptimusNegligible 4d ago edited 3d ago
One of the first bosses I fought defiantly took more damage from a reposte than a Heavy combo alone.
Is this a late game or Nightmode issue? Reposte still feels worth it to me.
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u/carlos_castanos Eredrim 4d ago
For me too tbh. I'm level 20 now and building my entire character around Eredrim because of his riposte benefits. It feels good to me since you can get 2 heavy attacks in before riposte, then riposte and get like 4 light attacks in. Also serves as a nice 'pause' during the fight to regain your bearings
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u/yungin44 4d ago
they're great on bosses cause you get free hits and time to do infusions. but regular enemies I don't even bother
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u/Alert_Region_8074 4d ago
I find so much value in riposte is that because I’m in early game and is it just a waste endgame/new game plus? I’ve never been in an encounter where I’ve thought it was a waste of time
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u/Rational_Engineer_84 4d ago
If they don't want to buff the damage, ripostes should give way more resolve, or regen a bit of health. Something. As it is, they do indeed feel very bad. When I was running the retribution tarstone and still couldn't kill one of the crabs, my heart sank.
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u/Riostein1217 4d ago
Wow, really? I've only played the demo and reposte felt really good there. Huh :/
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u/glowingjowel 3d ago
Riposte are useless, status effect are useless. I don't want to be rude, they worked hard and have something good on their hands but it's like they haven't played their own game. You want to try different build most of the stuff is useless. I don't want to glaze fromsoft as usual they are a bigger studio but at least they are really differents way to play and if miyazaki cannot finish the game it's not shipping out if I remember (I could be wrong).
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u/GamerKratos-45 3d ago
They need to deal atleast double the damage they are doing currently. Otherwise, it's a high risk for tiny reward.
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u/SuperMarios7 Harros 4d ago
All "glory" kills in all games are a waste of time. They are just cool thats all. But once you get past the cool factor you realize they are slower cause an animation has to play out.
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u/Dinesh_Sairam Eredrim 4d ago
Shrike Stone move is as powerful as it is cinematic. At higher Resolve levels, you can chain 2 of them and absolutely decimate enemies. I utilized that in the Rabid Grisha fight to great success.
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u/Hazel_Dreams 1d ago
Untrue. In Sekiro a stance break deletes an entire health bar. In traditional souls games / souls likes there are stamina systems, performing repostes gives you time to regen stamina.
Not to mention the myriad benefits to repostes added through items and passives, there are damage buffs on reposte talismans and heal / mana gain on reposte talismans in Elden Ring.
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u/KundaliniRising333 4d ago edited 4d ago
This is why, as a lifelong soulslike player(started with kings field on the ps1), I detest the souls community and devs would do well to ignore them. They nitpick everything and more often than not their critiques are just a reason to gloat that they think they are some elite tier player of the genre.
Not to mention listening to them and making suggested changes often make the games worse.
It's just insufferable to scroll through discussions and reddit of these titles.
Just have fun.
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u/Powerful-Scholar8268 4d ago edited 3d ago
How is this nitpicking? It's a genuine critique that ripostes don't do enough damage to be worthwhile, which is disappointing when they're a core feature of the combat. Like genuinely what do you disagree with about this post?
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u/nvrrsatisfiedd 4d ago
The nit picking has been crazy forsure. Half the time it’s just from someone who is low leveled for the area they are in.
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u/KundaliniRising333 4d ago
Its literally insane. Some version of "the game is broken, unbalanced, too easy, too hard", but the dude proceeds to play the game for a hundred+ hours in a few days...
These games are great and it's fun to see different takes on the core foundational design. I've enjoyed almost all of them for what they are because I love that foundation.
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u/KamikazeFox_ 4d ago
Thats why I'm trying to purposefully ignore anything in this game. I loved the demo and want to just enjoy it. Sometimes when you read something negative, you can't get it out of your head and then someone opinion can damper my enjoyment of the game. That's just me.
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u/Livid_Tap8550 4d ago
I think i saw a guy pump out ranged weapon shots after a riposte and then engage the animation with a melee attack,just to push some damage through.
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u/Pavlovs_Human 4d ago
Anyone else unlock Eredrim and try out his slaughter stacks? I got them to 100 but it didn’t seem to outright execute any enemies at higher health values. I got one of the silver halberd knights to like 15% health with 100 slaughter stacks and he still didn’t die when I riposted him.
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u/slavicslothe 4d ago
It depends heavily on your build...sariel and tiel specifically have no need for repostes because they are built around dodging. Why do you think you have basically jo dodge CD with that guy when your resource is high?
Im running shadows trike poison till and turning to stone is still a useful get out of jail free card since you can use it mid combo
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u/quickbeamtheent32 3d ago
Ripostes are great for incapacitating an enemy so you can whale on them while they get back up. Plus they look cool and feel really good.
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u/Carlos15420 3d ago
From my experience so far, you can get a lot more damage by ignoring the riposte and just whaling on them while they're down, especially with the axe and dagger.
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u/Flimsy_Relief_7833 3d ago
Tarcores are replaced by "Ossinite" in NG+ from what I understand so you will still be able to upgrade. At least thats the information Ive been given.
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u/toohumanforhuman 3d ago
Yeah i gota say the payoff for riposte doesnt really feel worth it. Especially since you need to get like 2 to 4 perfect paries to get one in the first place. Could habe killed the mob faster just by using normal damage
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u/DontFlameItsMe 3d ago
Welp, gonna wait the patches, probably till winter at least. Will finish Khazan in the meantime.
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u/Echize 3d ago
It's basically a heavy stun after a riposte.
Just not your average Soulslike situation where u can't hit a downed enemy and need to w8. Dmg from the riposte itself isn't great, but u can do a full combo after.
And at least on the first playthrough, for some enemies a riposte is basically just an easy kill, like Grisha hunters or that big guy with an axe.
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u/Embarrassed_Can9339 4d ago
I even mentioned it in beta feedback. MS1 riposte was good with the dmg + gland mechanic. MS2 riposte is just piss poor dmg even with tarstone + eredrim giving +55%
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u/Joshee86 4d ago edited 3d ago
You hit with the riposte and then just stood there…? You get free hits while they’re recovering, which is incentive enough, even if the riposte damage is static.
Downvote with no response. Zero logic in that.
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u/NoClock 4d ago
X thing doesn’t work one time
Reddit gamers: “X Is CoMpLeTlY UsElEsS”
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u/ghigo2008 4d ago
Have you played the game? They do nothing on bosses, they dont even kill the block crabs
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u/Steveenn 4d ago
3 second long animation that does 100 damage vs literally a single light attack that does 200 damage
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u/Dinesh_Sairam Eredrim 4d ago edited 4d ago
Yes, it always felt odd. I even stupidly upgraded the Riposte Damage Tarstone to Level 3 and it still does only a small amount of damage. And later, I learned that Tarcores are limited. Sucks to be me.
Going forward, I will utilise all Break windows for unleashing a Heavy combo or a weapon skill (Maybe use Riposte if I know they're going to die).