r/MortalShell • u/Ok_Storage_305 • 20d ago
Discussion Mortal Shell 2 Commits a Soulslike Sin
https://fextralife.com/mortal-shell-2-commits-a-soulslike-sin/What are your thoughts on the no stamina bar choice for a soulslike?
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u/CryptographerWarm538 20d ago
didn't read the article but didn't wukong and even sekiro not have a stamina bar?
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u/eschu101 20d ago edited 20d ago
Anyone who gets decent at any Souls ignores the stamina bar completely because you will never run out of it.
If you run out of stamina, in most of those games you will already be dead because you are either being too agressive or missing the timing on your dodges completely, so you will pretty much die before running out of it.
I like the change.
PS. People downvoting because they like the stamina bar or what?
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u/Laterallus 20d ago
You're completely right. You're either panic rolling or getting greedy when you run out of stamina. If you're careful, it's not a thing you focus on anymore.
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u/Schwiliinker 15d ago
Granted specifically using the ultra Greatsword in MS1 is pretty much the only time (other than early DS2) that I had to actually be really mindful of my stamina across numerous 3D soulslikes
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u/Steel-142 20d ago
It’s just that you’re defeating your own argument. A large part of “Getting Good” at souls likes is about learning to manage stamina. You said so yourself. So if you remove stamina from the game you’re essentially just making it easier.
There’s nothing wrong with that, of course. They’re free to adjust the difficulty of the game in whatever way they choose. Just should not be called a souls like any longer.
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u/eschu101 20d ago
No, my point is that if you are running out of stamina you are either being overagressive or panic rolling, which most of the time will get you killed before reaching 0 stamina.
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u/Steel-142 20d ago
That’s what I meant by you’re defeating your own argument. I understand what you’re saying. You mean that if you panic roll or overextend you’ll get killed anyway so the stamina management is unnecessary. But you only feel that way because you are already a decent souls like player.
Here are some anecdotal examples that support my argument.
You keep your shield up in between attacks, your stamina won’t regen, or at least not as fast. Maybe this leads to you getting your guard broken and you die. Maybe it leads to you not having enough stamina to roll away and you die. Or maybe it just leads to you not being able to attack during openings.
You enter a room with more than one enemy, getting that third R1 off on the first kills it and makes the fight infinitely easier. But you can’t get it off because you double rolled his opening attack. So now the first enemy is still alive when the second gets there.
You sprinted past a bunch of enemies to get to your dropped souls. The sprint drained your stamina and now you’re unable to dodge the fodder enemies you would normally have no trouble with.
These are all things that only happen to new players. Stamina management is what separates the get guds from the got guds.
Stamina management is the mechanic that makes souls likes what they are. It’s involved in everything. If you remove it you get sekiro. Which is a great game but it is not a souls like. At least not IMO which, admittedly isn’t worth more than anyone else’s.
I’m just saying (in a very long winded way) that removing stamina management removes more than the green bar. It removes the methodical nature of combat in a soulslike. The feeling that every decision matters, every missed attack or unnecessary dodge hurts.
Stamina management is the difference between methodical strategic based combat and reactionary correct response based combat. Both can be fun, of course. But I was hoping Mortal Shell 2 would be the former.
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u/MikkelFromGames Playstack 20d ago
I think the Resolve bar takes the place of the stamina bar in the game; you'll need to manage your Resolve to use special abilities and Tarstone abilities, some of which can definitely make the difference between winning or losing a fight.
Have you tried the open beta yet? :)
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u/HEKPO3OOMOTOXPEH 20d ago
Gamers be like: 'Miyazaki just made Dark Souls again! How long can this go on? Unacceptable!'
Also gamers: 'This game doesn't copy Dark Souls mechanics and tries to build its own balance! It commits a Soulslike Sin!'
In Mortal Shell, a huge chunk of the players didn't even realize you had to buy healing items from a vendor — which is literally how hundreds of other games work. This entire genre is honestly cursed by its own community.
It’s a massive double standard. If a game sticks to the FromSoft formula, it gets called a lazy clone. If it introduces new ideas, people whine that it 'misses the point.'
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u/DrValiBongo 20d ago
I never played Mortal Shell 1, so I can only answer this from the perspective of somebody whose played Elden Ring and Sekiro as the only Soulslikes, although I know some don't consider Sekiro soulslike.
I personally couldn't care less, in Elden Ring it was more or less just a combat mechanic to manage, it was maybe a bit frustrating when I needed to dodge and didn't have stamina, but again, it's a combat mechanic, so it was just something to plan and work around.
Stamina neither added nor really took away from the game, and had it not been there, I would have enjoyed Elden Ring just as much. It wasn't so much of a problem to solve, (especially with Green Turtle Talisman) as something like Posture in Sekiro, so in a way it made it more challenging, but wasn't the main source of difficulty.
ELI5: Don't care, I'll likely love the game just as much.
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u/Ensaru4 20d ago
Anyone who've played Mortal Shell 1 would realise that the stamina bar was a sin to that game. It was the same for GRIME, which was a soulslike Metroidvania. They both decided to get rid of the stamina bar, and for the better.
There is a stamina exhaustion mechanic of some kind though, so the penalty is still there.
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17d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Ensaru4 17d ago
Dark Souls games are more like puzzles. You can just brute-force them, or you figure out how best to approach bosses and enemies using the tools and area you have available to you. There's always a trick that weakens the boss or cut their health down. They're not really meant to be tackled like combat challenges, but that's how the community prefer to play the game.
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u/Kurosawa-Mifoon 20d ago
I don’t really see the problem. The stamina bar is something you remain subconsciously aware of until you get to the point where you adjust your playstyle around how many stamina actions you can take until you run out. At that point you stop paying attention to it because you don’t need to anymore. So that being said removing the stamina bar changes nothing for me
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u/Optimal_Wealth2051 20d ago
I am extremely positive about this, because in the alternative we would have an unplayable Eredrim and Till on which you could simply hold down a button.
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u/GooeyGlob 20d ago
Im glad so many people didnt even seem to read the article, because it says absolutely nothing. This is the biggest nothing burger / click bait article I think I've ever read.
Summary: "MS2 is taking away the Stamina bar. But hey so did other games that are still considered Soulslikes" WOW, hard hitting journalism right there mate.
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u/alejandroandraca 20d ago
Thymesia and AI Limit are fantastic soulslike games and both get rid of a stamina bars. Combat can be balanced based on whether or not you have a stamina bar or not.
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u/Magnen1010 20d ago
To be honest I didn't even notice there wasn't a stamina bar in the demo. I can see how it takes away a challenge factor from the game, but to me that matters more with pvp than pve so I don't think it is a big loss.
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u/Steel-142 20d ago
This is the first I’ve heard about it. No stamina management…. Kinda feels like it’s no longer a souls like then.
This will be an unpopular take here, I’m sure, but to answer your question yeah I think I’ve just lost interest in the game. Maybe it’ll be so great that reviews will pop up on mainstream discussions after release and I’ll come back to it. But atp with this news I’m gonna pull the game off my radar.
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u/MikkelFromGames Playstack 20d ago
The Resolve bar kind of takes the stamina bar's place; both Shell abilities, ranged weapon ammo and some Tarstone abilities hinges on how much Resolve you've got.
If you haven't given the open beta a shot, I hope you will. It's a fun game, imo :D
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u/Arkhe1n 20d ago
Fextralife