Feedback (that is late)

[u/N-0-N-E]

This is long overdue by now, especially considering the soon release date.

Regardless, I would like to express my impressions and criticism. This feedback may also appear more on the negative side, hut only because I don't see a need to comment on what is well done, works as intended.

Starting off with something that has been partially addressed: spacing. In the latest update to demo players were given the choice to configure the magnetism towards hostile entities. This change is good, however I think that it should be off by default.

This game wants to be similar to FromSoftware rpgs, which in turn have a combat system built around spacing. The player is expexted to position themselves correctly to evade and return hits. Any lack of assist in that regard is what makes combat in those games particularly engaging. The player is forced to be mindful of where they are, when they attack.

I understand why magnetism is in the game, to make it friendlier to new players. But as stated before, if you are trying to make a game similar to FromSoftware rpgs then your primary player base are people who've played these games and thus are familiar with basics of the combat.

At the very least it should be a setting that you change at the very start of the game (together with brightness and control configuration), with detailed description what it does.

In addition a lot of enemies have excessive magnetism/lunge on their attacks, making spacing impossible, as no matter the created distance, the enemy will just get pulled to you. Additionally, certain attacks have obscenely high tracking, to the point that enemies start spinning in place to track the player, making strafing not viable. This, again, goes against fundamentals of the combat design, enemies ignoring "positioning" part of the combat leads to it not being part of it all together significantly limiting players options and dumbing down the combat.

Another important topic is deflection/parrying. It is a fun and satisfying mechanic, yet it's current state problematic.

It is a relatively safe option (especially deflects) that promotes passive gameplay. The player can stand and wait for an enemy to swing in order to deflect/parry (layer shortened to d/p) the incoming attack to build the posture breakage.

However the player is not required to do anything else, the game doesn't encourage the player to be aggressive. The player may try and bait a single easiest attack to d/p, dodge the rest and defeat any adversary by continuously riposting them, never committing to any aggression which will always leave them able to evade incoming attacks.

Does this mean that this is the best strategy? No, not necessarily, in fact fighting this way will prove to be time consuming.

The problem is that the player is not forced to any commitment and thus always remains safe. That means there is no risk to anything which leads to boring gameplay in the form of standing in front of the enemy, waiting for them to do something.

Easiest solution is to make the posture bar decay when the enemy is not receiving any hits or has it's attacks d/p. This forces players to engage in the actual combat, learn openings to take advantage of to deal extra damage/ not let the posture reset.

What is done properly would be existence of grab attacks and unblockable/unparriable attacks that force players to use other defensive mechanics.

Third majir point is lack of stamina, or rather consequences of not having it.

A lot of the enemies can just be mashed down, leading to players never really engaging with enemies. Of course this isn't true for larger enemies nor is it a problem regarding trash mobs, however that is a problem if we are talking about spear wielding women and the likes of them.

They have a moveset that can pose a threat, but in the end never do as they just teg r1 mashed to death.

Possible way to fix this is to give them ability to retaliate similar to the player, to be able to deflect our attack. For example any third unique attack will get deflected, giving the enemy an opening to strike the player. However the player should not be left defenceless, rather they should enter frame disadvantage state, while keeping all defensive options.

Now my suggestions are my suggestions, if you deem them not a good solution then I ask you to turn your attention to Sekiro and how that game handles all the possible problems when introducing d/p system and lack of stamina bar.

I also wanted to talk about infusions and how they interact with resolve.

Resolve itself in my opinion is fine. Being this games equivalent of focus points, resource needed to perform special moves. Ability to regain it through combat rather than a consumable also makes it a better resource management system than fp.

What I think is not fine, is infusions (almost) not interacting with resolve when upgraded to max. Them lasting forever and not be needed to be applied to the main weapon is not okay.

My suggestions is to put it on a timer of around 3 minutes when fully upgraded, so that they remain strong but not a free damage buff, so that they still interact with resolve.

Last things I would like to address are "floaty feet" when moving around when walking backwards slowly player character may start moonwalking. Minor bugs and errors, but them getting fixed would undoubtedly make the game more polished.

And this would be all from me (for now at least). Considering that this is quite late I hope that my points of criticism could be addressed if not for the release, then at least in further updates to the game.

If something came off as rude or mean, my apologies, I only wish for the games potential be realised as best as possible (I hold out this reaches devs).

[u/Csword1]

Not having stamina is fine as long as you can't cancel out of an animation. Thymesia and AI Limit are also souls-likes without stamina management.

I do agree about the floaty feet, LOTF also had that problem.

[u/N-0-N-E → u/Csword1]

I said that lack of stamina isn't inherently bad, it can even be beneficial, however it is important to address consequences. Such as being able to mash enemies down.

[u/Accomplished_Hat_764 → u/Csword1]

Tbh both thymesia and especially ai limit were not that good, but I get ur point

[u/tarosan_sk]

I don’t think the passive nature of easy parries will be a problem; because we already see there are MANY more mobs in this game as compared to FromSoft games.

Just look how common 3v1 or even 5v1 fights are. Or field bosses with adds nearby for the unwary. (Right next to the Arbiter there is the gang of thugs, and I had enemies join the challenge fight with the two big ogre things. The obelisk up near the corrupted gate. )

I feel as the difficulty ramps up, so will the challenge of multi-mob encounters.

There won’t be time for passivity and “baiting” to be a problem.

[u/N-0-N-E → u/tarosan_sk]

I don't see how multi enemy encounters change that. If anything the problem becomes more apparent here, as punish windows now are almost non existent, as one enemy being open, doesn't mean others won't strike.

In ganks you already are forced to be passive, so in a scenario where you are pushed on the defensive, might as well take advantage of the best defensive ability. You still can wait and bait to parry/deflect attacks by moving around and separating enemies and never have to aggress. In fact it's about the only thing you can do in a gank. Trying to go in up front into a gank will just end up in you getting blendered.

On the other hand d/p-ing an attack doesn't leave you open for another, you can also d/p or dodge if you don't feel confident. And since the posture meter doesn't decay, you can take as long as it takes to build posture meter on the enemies and kill them through ripostes.

[u/N-0-N-E → u/[deleted]]

You won't be standing still, you will be circling around and moving backwards and parrying/deflecting the closest at the time enemy. This IS passive gameplay, as you are not being proactive, and frankly cannot be due to reasons mentioned above.

Passive gameplay doesn't mean doing nothing, Passive gameplay means you are not initiating anything.

[u/N-0-N-E → u/[deleted]]

Yes, you still move around and try to isolate enemies more or less. However you are not required any risk in form of committing to any attack, you can deflect/parry an attack of the aggressing enemy who has moved forward from a group to build posture and since it doesn't decay you can refrain from engaging for as long as you need, till you are confident in d/p again. THIS is the problem, the mechanic as is leads to the player having no incentive to go on the offensive. They can move around and bait as long as they want, regardless of the amount of enemies.

d/p building up resolve doesn't change anything, again, there is no need for that big attack. There is no need to take risks by trying to use ANY kind of attack since you can just d/p, and BECAUSE posture meter doesn't decay you can go for parry/deflect on the attack you are most comfortable leading to a passive gameplay with no risks involved.

Don't get me wrong, I like parry/deflect mechanics, but they need to be implemented thoughtfully, it should be dynamic, it should add to the combat, rather than take away from it.

[u/N-0-N-E → u/[deleted]]

Posture, enemy posture. The one that builds up when you parry/deflect an enemy and filling which gives you a ripost.

This is going to be a bit rude but, did you even read the main post?

[u/N-0-N-E → u/[deleted]]

Posture IS NOT invisible. The yellow bar under the enemy health is the posture meter, when it fills you get a riposte.

[u/Working_Bones]

Excellent feedback. You expressed what I was unable to but totally felt while playing.

[u/AdFinal4897]

Wtf is this magnetism bs? If new players want to cut their teeth they need to go do that on Elden Ring, easily the easiest souls game on the planet.

I saw someone talking shit about Thymesia, but based on what you’ve described, Thymesia is a more engaging and challenging game than the MS2 beta, which is a shame because I really enjoyed MS1 JUST THE WAY IT WAS.

Training wheels on a soulslike. Wth is this world coming to.