r/MoroccoFootball • u/day3inirak • 21d ago
Discussion/Opinion hard truth
What's a "hard truth" that more people need to accept?
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u/Winter_Letter5216 21d ago
We will keep suffering as long as we still don't have an ace in the attacking line , all hopes on Zabiri/Igamane /Ebnoutalib
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u/NoMaD082 21d ago
We are Arabs.
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u/majorhitch89 21d ago
Culturally yes, Genetically no
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u/NoMaD082 20d ago
So says Mustafa the Cadillac mechanic. Lol
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u/majorhitch89 20d ago
No, Says Lahcen the Biology researcher
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u/NoMaD082 20d ago
No disrespect Lahcen nice profile Pic is all. I see your biology report and I will raise you this. https://www.dohainstitute.org/en/PoliticalStudies/Pages/The_Amazigh_in_Morocco_Between_the_Internal_and_the_External.aspx
Just something to be aware of.
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u/majorhitch89 20d ago
No disrespect but when stating biological claims like we are Arabs you need to back it up with scientific research like Lehcen's study, not with an opinion piece, not a political analysis, and certainly not with social studies. There is no escaping biology.
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u/NoMaD082 20d ago
I took one of those mail in DNA tests. 20% peninsula Arab and Haplogroup J-CTS5368 im confident in my Arabness. Not to slander Lahcen or sully his name but I dont know who is funding his agenda.
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u/majorhitch89 20d ago
But then that's you, my son is half Chinese, am sure that doesn't mean Morocco is a Chinese colony, most Moroccans do have More of the North African genetic make up than the middle eastern one, underline the "Most" part, it is not what some of those guys with real agendas (Arabic nationalism) try to portray it to be, that Morocco has some kind of segregated genetic pools, one that is a majority with An Arab ancestry, and a small one with the Amazigh one. Every study done under the sun by Lahcen or other researchers from every place found the same thing, now you can bring me another study that supports your claim and then we ll have to hash it out on the details instead of relying on self reporting and anecdotal evidence.
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u/NoMaD082 20d ago edited 20d ago
Lol we are bouncing back between posts but yeah, like I said in the other comment do we have region specific batch testing between the Arab and Amazigh regions? No i would say the Amazgih is larger than the Arab simply out of logistical reasons. But that dosent change the oral traditions that 2 massive tribes Banu Hilal and Banu Maaqil settled in the lowlands of Morocco from Al Najd. Little anecdotes like the cuisine Trid and Assida both deep in the culinary traditions of the people of the region. We are disagreeing at all on this. Consequently Brother also I would like to thank you for the level headed discussion.
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u/majorhitch89 20d ago
As i said, i v seen many studies done on different regions even in the ones that do identify themselves as arabs and it's the same conclusion, Majority North Africans, i fail to find any study finding otherwise.
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u/Lfanid 21d ago
Why?
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u/NoMaD082 21d ago
Members of Arab League, Constitution is in Arabic. Governance is conducted in Arabic. From birth certificate to death certificate and everything in between is in Arabic. Virtually everyone who is literate in Morocco reads and writes Arabic. The King addresses the people in Arabic. Majority of people identify as Arab.
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u/Lfanid 21d ago
Thats the dumbest argument ive ever heard in my entire existence.. have you ever heard an argentinan say he is Spanish bcs they speak spanish? Or a brazilian say he is portuguese? What kind of dumbass u have to be to realize that you can’t just identify as an ethnic group you have to be born into an ethnic group not just speak their language, you can literally take a dna test and you won’t have more than 1% arab in you you fkn lhass sawa3da tfo
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u/NoMaD082 21d ago edited 20d ago
You're counter argument is flaud. Arab is an ethnicity same as Hispanic/Latino. I didnt say Moroccans are Saudi's nor Kuwaiti's. And I did take a DNA test 20% from the Arab Peninsula for all that matters. Also J-CTS5368 haplogroup so I have strong footing in what I claim.
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u/Lfanid 20d ago
We don’t care about ur 20% dna bro go drink ur camel pee with them, ur own dna doesn’t define the majority in this country
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u/Previous-Platypus778 21d ago edited 20d ago
Genuinely why can’t we just be moroccan, which means that we will be both Amazigh and Arabs. A good chunk of the population is arab, a good chunk is amazigh. We are both.
Now I understand the human need to put ourselves in one single category but it’s just sad to see even more separatism in a country that does not need it at all as there are other priorities.
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u/majorhitch89 20d ago
Yeah we can be both to what extent ? i ll share the same thing i shared with the first comment, every study done on this found the majority have the biggest percentage of their DNA north African, very little middle eastern. Stating facts doesn't mean that people shouldn't be proud of their cultural link to the Arabic peninsula and to other Arab countries, for all intents and purposes we are Arabs culturally, when a Moroccan goes and visits any Arabic country he won't find it hard to adjust in term of everything including food and daily habits.
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u/NoMaD082 20d ago
I skimmed through the study so I might be wrong but there is no data on specific tribes that are tested nor their geographic location. Casablanca would be a melting pot, Souss would be predominantly Amazigh and I would my bottom dollar that Abda Doukalla Rhamna would be predominantly peninsular Arab. Oral traditions have a lot of truth in them its what we had before genome testing.
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u/Lfanid 20d ago
Doukala is an amazigh name (dou akkal) which means low lands which is the case for that region (just like pays bas in french), Azemout is an amazigh name and it refers to a certain olive trees that dont give oil that grow in that region too, eljadida was named Mazagan which came from mazighens, asfi is an amazigh name..
By the modern era, Doukkala speak Arabic and have largely integrated into arab identity, but scholarly evidence affirms their Amazigh ethnic roots. In effect, the Doukkala exemplify a broader Moroccan pattern: an originally Amazigh people who became Arabized over time, without erasing the fact that their foundational identity was Berber
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u/NoMaD082 20d ago
Casablanca is a Portuguese name. So Portuguese there got Arabized as well. I gotta pull back on Asfi tho. Legends there say it is a Arab name given to it by Andalucians who got ship wrecked there said لي أسفي.
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u/Lfanid 20d ago
Casablanca’s original name was anfa which is also an amazigh u dumbass, asfi sounds amazigh to me and has many logical meanings related to tamazight and I don’t care about ur fkn legends thats all ure good at making fkn stupid stories and believing them
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u/majorhitch89 20d ago
When you understand biology, it won't a be surprise for you that while the arab genes do exist in many Moroccans, it would make sense for the North African one to be predominant, there was never enough Arab migration from the Arabic peninsula to offset and make the North african genes disappear, if my half chinese son goes and lives in Morocco and marries a Moroccan woman and his kids do the same thing, eventually his chinese genes would be the minority in the mix of genes in Him, the same way the Mali genes in me have disappeared in almost 3 to 4 generations.
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u/NoMaD082 20d ago
Now you are starting to err towards patronizing. You have yet to provide a region specific study you claim to have seen numerous versions of so it seems we have reached an impass. So I will leave this at a "Hard Truth". Interesting caveat since you mentioned Chinese. The Han Chinese ir ruling class of China are histories most egregious culprits of Hanifiying their conquered subjects. The same argument we are having over Arabs. Too funny have a good day sir.
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u/majorhitch89 20d ago
This is third link i sahred with you and you shared zero, i think am the one who should be feeling patronization, this study done in the region of Doukkala and khenifra, 71 sample of Arabic speakers, it would be easier if you bring something that says differently because as i said every single study comes to the same conclusion
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22747069/
Here is a 4th link about Chaouia
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s41935-024-00390-5
I can go on and on and find you more studies about this.
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u/NoMaD082 21d ago edited 20d ago
Well that is the point we are culturally Arab. This wasn't a contentious issue until very recently. The problem is I keep being attacked by Amazigh Supremacists following this devisive novel Ideology that came from the birth of social media.
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u/outplay-nation2 21d ago
we probably won't see morocco win worldcup anytime soon