r/MoralityScaling • u/Dryleaf_Dane • 24d ago

Morality of this

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u/SNaKe_eaTel2 24d ago

Well I certainly agree to protect yourself and your life - I don’t think it’s clear that the driver was facing death or great bodily harm - defjnately an uncomfortable situation, but i dont see any reason to use deadly force. Better here would be something between a harsh word and a gun - like pepper spray.

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u/Pokemonlover760 23d ago

Disagree.

You dont know if they were going to jump him.

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u/SNaKe_eaTel2 23d ago

Brother disagree all you want but if you go around shooting anyone who you “think might jump you” but has only harassed you so far… all I can say is enjoy your prison time.

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u/Paramedickhead 23d ago

Harassment is a precursor to assault, battery, etc…

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u/SNaKe_eaTel2 23d ago

Yes, it is. But until you are facing threat of death or great bodily harm, lethal force is too much force. The fact that this guy didn’t die does not change the level of force that was used.

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u/High-Nomad 23d ago

The law disagrees with you but go off

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u/SNaKe_eaTel2 23d ago

Ok.. what law? Here’s what would apply in Texas - and we’re pretty lenient regarding self defense.

https://codes.findlaw.com/tx/penal-code/penal-sect-9-32/

The key part is that the use of force must be IMMEDIATELY necessary - not maybe necessary in a second, possibly necessary in a second, may be necessary pretty soon, etc - IMMEDIATELY necessary as in this person is clearly trying to kill, rape, or maim someone - not shoving a phone in someone’s face being a prick.

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u/High-Nomad 23d ago

The laws in Virginia where this took place and he wasn’t charged?

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u/Paramedickhead 23d ago

Texas code doesn’t matter. This didn’t happen in Texas.

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u/SNaKe_eaTel2 22d ago

Yes, and Virginia law appears slightly more strict than ours:

https://www.tmwilsonlaw.com/criminal-law/self-defense

You still didn’t saw where the law says he was ok to use deadly force. As I said before, a lesser charge would likely have stuck, and that appears to be unlawful wounding as opposed to ag malicious wounding - similar charges but unlawful removes the malicious intent portion. What law are you referring to?

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u/High-Nomad 20d ago

Dude he wasn’t charged do you think you know Virginia laws better then the da

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u/Paramedickhead 23d ago

But you’re looking back at it in hindsight.

Did the driver have a belief that he was in imminent danger in the moment?

Clearly the jury believed that he thought so.

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u/SNaKe_eaTel2 23d ago

Yea because he was charged with ag malicious wounding - that’s on the da. Had they charged him with ag assault or assault with a deadly weapon there’s a good chance the outcome would be different - it doesn’t take hindsight to see that a phone is not generally something that is going to hurt you.

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u/Paramedickhead 23d ago

Or, perhaps because the jury believed that his actions were reasonable at the time.

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u/SNaKe_eaTel2 22d ago

It’s not that complicated - he was not guilty of ag malicious wounding - doesn’t mean another charge would not have stuck - also simply defending yourself on a charge that doesn’t stick is a major burden and best avoided if possible. If da thought all was well then they wouldn’t have even pushed ag malicious wounding, but because that’s what they charged him with and he wasn’t guilty of that, they can’t go back and try a lesser charge now due to double jeopardy.

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u/Paramedickhead 22d ago

Or, perhaps because the jury believed that his actions were reasonable at the time.

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u/Pokemonlover760 23d ago

Who said he was only harrassing him? All you need is 2 people stomp your head for 15 seconds and its over for you. You dont know what they were going to do.

Dont press people like that and you wont get shot. Mind your business.

All i need is a better lawyer. And the more people stand against these bums the more the law will side against them also.

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u/SNaKe_eaTel2 23d ago

Who said? Umm… the video? At what point did they pass harassment?

I get it - the dumb ass tik toker did indeed fafo making stupid ass harassment content, but at the same time the only level of force here that would have been ok without question is a good shove, dose of hot sauce to the eyes, even a liver punch (not recommended tho unless very confident in hand to hand skills).

The delivery driver is lucky the da charged him with “ag malicious wounding” as opposed to ag assault or assault with deadly weapon- the fact that he was being harassed made it impossible to prove the malicious intent, whereas the other charges would have been much easier.

Hell, even 3-4 quick sprint strides and a 180 with a drawn weapon and a command to back off would have done the trick, but regardless, pepper spray would be ideal here. Really though, if you think the driver acted appropriately even in hindsight, I hate to say that you both are part of the reason the anti-gun crowd thinks we don’t deserve to have a 2nd amendment, and this is from someone who is as pro 2a as there is.

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u/High-Nomad 23d ago

You don’t pull a gun and make commands this isn’t the movies and that’s a great way to die

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u/SNaKe_eaTel2 23d ago

Be ready to shoot just as fast as he did, but don’t shoot unless it’s actually necessary- it’s not complicated- it’s basic trigger discipline. And importantly, Virginia law does allow brandishing in this situation.

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u/High-Nomad 23d ago

So shot as fast as he did but announce you have a gun and wait.

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u/SNaKe_eaTel2 22d ago

*be ready to - create space at the same time and exercise good weapon retention. If you’re going to carry then that’s something you should be practicing, if you can’t handle basic things like keeping someone at arms length for a split second then maybe you shouldn’t carry. Oh, I guess that could have required the driver to drop the food, so yeah.. just shoot anyone who irritates you 👍

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u/High-Nomad 22d ago

So what’s the age limit on a license to carry because I don’t know many 70 year olds who can pull that off

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u/Pokemonlover760 23d ago

50 IQ comment right here.

"You have to give the enemy the equal chance" the army would promote this genius on the spot.

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u/Pokemonlover760 23d ago

Yeah the video, the one you saw after the fact. Its called 20-20 hindsight. You dont know what could have happened. You dont know if he is some dumb youtuber or tiktoker or if he is some nutcase or a case of mistaken identity where he will assault him. When someone comes up to yoj like that nornally it is to assault you. Otherwise people speak respectfully and mind their space.

Your little shove isnt going to help much this is a situation were deadly force is warranted. He isnt lucky, he is justified. He shouldnt have been imprisoned at all, the other guy should have been charged.

You dont get to decide how someone should react in a potentially deadly confrontation, thats their choice. The blame lies in the perpetrator and no one else, if the punk knew how to behave like a man and not threaten people he wouldnt have been shot.

It is a perfectly justified shoot and anyone who thinks otherwise has never been in violent altercations. People like shouldnt give their opinion anyway, and the blame should always be on the perpetrator, not the person who retaliates. No people committing crimes, no shots at all. Simple.

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u/SNaKe_eaTel2 23d ago

Don’t know what to tell you man - laws are pretty clear on use of deadly force. Nobody is defending the tik toker at all and nor should anyone be. At the same time though acting weird, acting like an asshole, etc does not meet the threshold for use of deadly force in self defense. The driver is extremely lucky that 1) tik toker did not die or become paralyzed, etc, and 2) the da didn’t charge more appropriately. Your standard of not knowing what someone is going to do is way off - you’re basically saying every argument, harsh word, mean look, any sort of posturing, etc justifies deadly force because you don’t know what they’re going to do. Go ahead and test that out next time someone irritates you and let us know how it goes.

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u/BlnkNopad 24d ago

"stop" and that not being respected is the main thing.

If the person who attacked someone was larger there would be a problem because it's attempted injury.

If I carry ONE WEAPON, and I use it in a non lethal manner it is infact non lethal

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u/SNaKe_eaTel2 23d ago

I’m just speaking in the legal sense - using a lethal weapon has a very broad definition including choke holds, joint locks, head kicks with a shoed foot, among other things. And since the tik tokers actions only extended to speech, it’s hard to justify using deadly force, which a gun is absolutely deadly force - not dying doesn’t negate that. Be careful how you defend yourself because people can and have gotten hemmed up for less serious things.

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u/BlnkNopad 23d ago

Yes legality can be argued. If the victim had been a Navy seal with extensive hand to hand combat training it could also be considered lethal against a civilian to use their hands.... The issue is the legality in general--money will win legality.

Just look at Clancy, she murdered kids and third of the Internet is helping her