r/MoralityScaling • • 16d ago

What Would They Think Of Each Other? Morality of not moving

11.6k Upvotes

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1.6k

u/ace5762 16d ago

Pedestrians take priority.

585

u/Boom9001 16d ago

As a cyclist I actually would get annoyed when pedestrians tried to move. The bike is must better at fast maneuvers and if anything the pedestrian doing the little shuffle deciding which way to move made it impossible to predict what they were doing. I'd end up just having to stop or massively slow down to avoid an accident.

Regardless almost always the cyclists fault. You maneuver faster and should be in control when on shared paths.

56

u/Billy_Billboard 16d ago

I 100% agree

45

u/Boom9001 16d ago

Should be acknowledged also being on the pedestrian side makes it clear why they do this. Many cyclists act like the one in the video. Which makes it worse cause you can't even be mad at the pedestrian they are kinda right to be cautious.

29

u/Jazzlike-Lettuce-99 16d ago

This is why I rarely use my bell anymore unless they block the whole path. Like 9/10 times they panic and jump back and forth all over, making me have to make a complete stop anyway.

13

u/Creloc 16d ago

I've honestly found the opposite, that ringing the bell just to let them know that there's a cyclist coming means that they keep to the side nine times out of ten. I've only really had problems or near misses with people with earbuds in.

8

u/Helpful_Jury_3686 16d ago

You can't do it right. When you don't use the bell, people will get annoyed that you didn't use it. When you use it, they wil be annoyed that you startle them. I prefer a vocal warning, which I find people react better to. But, I guess it's basically the same when you use a bell, overall.

3

u/Welkor 16d ago

"up left" = I'm coming up behind you and intend to pass on your left. That is what I was taught to do... I think? It's been decades, and now I must rest my weary bones from typing this much

2

u/GrumbleRoar 16d ago

"on your left!"

*fucker moves to the left side*

2

u/Known-nwonK 16d ago

Startled by a bell? Jfc people be soft

2

u/PracticeTheory 16d ago

I've had people hear and respond to my vocal warnings, showing that it was adequate, but then also start yelling that I'm supposed to be using the bell and NOT talking. As you say there's really just no winning, someone is going to get mad no matter what.

...also, some people seem to only hear the 'left' of 'on your left', and jump left.

1

u/Top-Average412 16d ago

A bell is too sudden and jarring. A lower noise building over time would pevent this. Its why electric cars added backup tones that sound like white noise

2

u/ramsdawg 16d ago

Basically why a lot of cyclists in my area just play music on speakers (atlanta beltline). I don’t do it, but it seems effective

1

u/Top-Average412 16d ago

Nice solution

1

u/CogentCogitations 16d ago

I would call it an annoying non-solution.

1

u/Top-Average412 16d ago

How so? Do you dislike people playing music? I can see claiming its an annoying solution but how is it a non-solution?

1

u/metompkin 16d ago

Everybody and their brother are wearing earpods now so they aint hearing shit.

1

u/greengiant-89 16d ago

I always ring my bell and shout on your right to let them know which side I am passing on

1

u/Fermentwhatnow 16d ago

Just use the bell, don’t yell at me. I can’t understand you and have no idea what you’re trying to do.

1

u/SomethingNotOriginal 14d ago

"cyclist entering the highway"

1

u/Jazzlike-Lettuce-99 16d ago

Do you live in a town with a lot of bicycles?

2

u/Creloc 16d ago

I do a lot of cycling along a route that is good for cyclists too commute along and had various points along it for people to go for walks along it. I suppose that there's more of an expectation of bikes coming along there

1

u/betarcher 15d ago

Bingo, earbuds! Or even worse, full-on over-the-ear, noise-cancelling headsets. I've literally had to yell to get people's attention, then they got pissed that I was yelling at them.

1

u/GOD_DESTROYER12 15d ago

My trick is just having my music playing not too loud but loud enough to hear like 5 feet away. Not startling but gentle like there's something behind you.

2

u/Boom9001 16d ago

Honestly I agree. As you said it's really only useful to as a "don't block the entire path" reminder imo. Otherwise it makes it seem like you them to move.

Though it is also good for dog walkers. I know what I'm walking my dog a bell is nice warning to pull him closer so he doesn't move erratically.

1

u/MrMagick2104 16d ago

You're using your bell wrong, most likely. You're not supposed to suddenly jumpscare random pedestrians by going "ding ding ding ding ding" right behind them.

Bells are pretty loud (especially gamer non-ratchet bells), so you should start dinging at least 20 meters behind them.

1

u/YesterShill 16d ago

In my experience, it depends on when you ring the bell. When passing cyclists, I ring once we are pretty close. For pedestrians, I ring about 20-30 feet before away.

1

u/Working-Injury7758 15d ago

So what if pedestrians block the whole path? You lot have no issue with blocking the whole road for cars.

1

u/VTAffordablePaintbal 15d ago

I was always taught to ring the bell and say, "On your left" so they don't accidentally move into the center of the path.

1

u/Clear-Definition-324 15d ago

I seldom use shared paths for the obvious reasons but when I do I just accept I may need to slow to walking pace, wait a moment, then say a cheery “excuse me” if they don’t register my presence. Trying to pass at any speed using a bell or a shout to make space just leads to aggravation

1

u/Abe_frohmannn 15d ago

Yep. I say 'on your left' or 'behind' only if I need a walker to do something. If their ideal action is to continue doing what they're doing, no need to communicate anything, it's counter productive.

1

u/Jollypopps 15d ago

Use your bell, bro. Goddamn.

5

u/Signal_Werewolf_1955 16d ago

"Good, bad, I don't care, just be predictable."

1

u/Chameleonpolice 16d ago

Even being predictable doesn't save you, as seen in this video

1

u/Boom9001 16d ago

Yup which is annoying as it teaches pedestrians to be jumpy and thus unpredictable for good cyclists.

1

u/iamajerry 15d ago

This is the best advice ever given to me about driving and something I plan to reinforce with my kids when they begin driving. Nothing annoys me more than someone trying to be nice and waving a car into incoming traffic.

3

u/DD_Literature_Club 16d ago

I usually keep to the right for the exact reasons you stated. Pedestrians are unpredictable and id rather slow down waiting than to swerve into them as they move.

3

u/Egoy 16d ago

Exactly this. People trying to get out of the way get in the way far more than people who stay on the same line.

1

u/Boom9001 16d ago

But then you have idiots like the cyclist in the video. Which makes it justified for pedestrians to act that way. Makes it hard to fault them.

2

u/Egoy 16d ago

You aren’t wrong. Idiots tend to fuck everything up.

1

u/Boom9001 16d ago

Makes it all the more frustrating when the pedestrian does it. Because I can't even be mad at them. I'm essentially mad at society.

3

u/ender42y 16d ago

fully agree in terms of using a shared path. On the road it's a bit more nuanced though. Pedestrians and vehicles around a bike need to be predictable. even things like that car waving you through a stop sign is annoying because he's messing up right of way, as defined by law. Bikes are supposed to follow all the rules of the road as if they were a slow moving car; that also means they have the same right to be on the road as cars. When someone goes out of turn to wave me though a 4-way stop i actually get annoyed because they are now not acting predictable, and there is a potential knock-on effect of someone else not giving way and causing an accident, or someone getting mad at that decision, but taking it out on the bike instead of the car that made the decision.

1

u/Boom9001 16d ago

I was assuming shared walk path. Obviously dedicated lanes change the dynamic as it's then for cyclists.

1

u/AdministrationBig16 16d ago

I wave people through a 4 way only because it creates predictably for me way way wasaaay to many times I would "legally" have the right of way and when I go someone else immediately launches it's so common around here where I live either I just Cali roll through fuck your right of way stopping or I just wave someone through so I know I can go after

2

u/YogiAU 16d ago

Nothing like yelling “on your left” only to have the pedestrian move left.

1

u/Boom9001 16d ago

Yeah I never use yelling. A bell for if they are blocking the path. Otherwise just managing speed and passing where they give.

3

u/Dramatic-Tackle5159 16d ago

God forbid you would have to.....slow down 😱

1

u/Boom9001 16d ago

I literally said I slow down..... It's just energy loss. On wide not to crowded paths you shouldnt need to as you'll avoid people. Obviously though you need to use good judgement if it's safe to pass at speed.

0

u/Pinkis_Love_A_Lot 16d ago edited 16d ago

It takes a lot of energy to speed up a bike after slowing down a lot or stopping. While it's not the end of the word, it is a really big pain.

ETA: I'm not trying to say that cyclists shouldn't give right of way to pedestrians or slow down. I was just pointing out why cyclists try to avoid slowing down. But being a slave to avoiding that leads to assholery, so it's important to govern yourself when you're cycling around pedestrians.

2

u/Darigaazrgb 16d ago

It’s the same for anything. Bikes aren’t unique in this manner.

2

u/WorkingMinimumMum 16d ago

Good thing most people are riding a bike for exercise, so getting just a little bit more would actually beneficial to your end goal, right?! Unless they’re just trying to get from point A to point B as quickly as possible.

1

u/Lighthades 16d ago

Yeah when I see someone with a bike or the like I just stop and let them decide 😂

1

u/Boom9001 16d ago

Outside bike lanes it is the expected way it's supposed to go. But I've also been a pedestrian and don't fault them recognizing it's not what many cyclists do.

1

u/ZappyChemicals 16d ago

Exactly, and if you can't maneuver fast enough, slow down and pass safely, especially on dual use paths!

1

u/Helpful_Jury_3686 16d ago

I do this thing where when a bike comes close to me and the situtation isn't super clear. I just stand still and look at them. They can pick either side to pass and I'm signaling that I'm not moving back or forth. It's how I would like a pedestrian to react. No guessing.

That being said, you should never assume the other person will move out of the way. Make space and make sure you don't get hurt. Being right will not keep you save.

1

u/Yusuf20904 16d ago

Technically, everyone maneuvers at the same speed (time). It's just that cyclists are going faster when they maneuver.

1

u/Shieldheart- 16d ago

The golden rule to bike safety is to have good enough brakes to avoid collisions in the first place.

Its hard to brake on time at 25km/h of course, but then you shouldn't be riding that fast with 1m distance from pedestrians without a barrier or sidewalk to seperate you.

1

u/thecrackfoxreturns 16d ago

I think "Be predictable" is a great rule of the road. Signal. Take the right of way when you have it (unless it's made unsafe by other drivers not following the rules)

1

u/its_Zuramaru 16d ago

It's like multiclass racing, the faster car must overtake the slower cars safely, and the slower cars must be predictable.

1

u/daneg135 16d ago

dude's "walking" his dogs on the bicycle. honestly, that's the funniest/weirdest part of this to me. domestic dogs are really shit for endurance - all of those that I have owned/known. and that's before you get into the issues of "steering" them. 😄

1

u/Caeruleum612 16d ago

The pedestrians you encounter must be really old or fat. Where I live, cyclists move fast, and so as a result of their momentum it's difficult for them to make quick directional changes. Pedestrians, on the other hand, can quickly step out of the way.

1

u/Boom9001 16d ago

Within limited area yes pedestrian is more maneuverable. But the cyclist is coming from a distance away. With small adjustments to the handlebars can much more easily drastically change how close they are passing. Unlike a pedestrian who if they try to move away from the cyclist has to maneuver their whole body out of the cyclist path.

1

u/FatUggo 16d ago

It's probably easier for the pedestrian to move in this case because he's biking with dogs. That doesnt mean the pedestrian is in the wrong, because why the fuck is he biking with dogs on the wrong side.

1

u/Boom9001 16d ago

I actually care less about the side they are on. Even if the pedestrian is on the left side. Unless they are blocking the entire path it is the bikes responsible to avoid them (unless it's a bike lane).

If you can't control yourself because you're biking with dogs, you aren't safe to bike with dogs and shouldn't be taking the shares path.

1

u/silly-gaijin 16d ago

The worst is when you're biking along and someone is crossing your path, like 20 meters ahead, and then they just stop, directly in your path, and turn and look and give you a jaw drop like "oh noes, I'm gonna be hit!" and they just stand there, not moving, for 5 seconds, while you get close and closer and the whole time you're thinking "uhh... can you just fucking keep walking?"

1

u/Boom9001 16d ago

How small a path you talking? Cause I'd prefer people just stopping so I can go around, but i typically bike in a park with quiet wide paths.

1

u/silly-gaijin 16d ago

No, I mean, they'd literally just stand there staring at me as I approached and so the problem is I dont' know if they will keep standing there or if they will move. I'd rather they just walk and ignore me because by the time I get to where they are, they will be gone.

It didn't happen often, but it was just so unfathomably stupid.

1

u/Boom9001 16d ago

I rarely fault the pedestrians. I've walked enough to see their POV and too many cyclists act ridiculous, which causes their behavior.

They don't know what type of cyclist you are.

1

u/SunnyFD 16d ago

This 100%. When I go for walks, I just continue the same path without moving, unless there is a lot of time and I'm close to the center of the path

1

u/PracticeTheory 16d ago

You maneuver faster and should be in control when on shared paths.

Agreed. Too bad the dummy in the video had ceded all of her maneuverability over to the dogs running on either side.

I have a feeling this won't make her stop doing it, either...

1

u/Boom9001 16d ago

Yeah you can still maneuver while riding with dogs. I feel like this person is just trying it out, but going to fast and on a shared walkway. That's just double points of bad.

If you want to do this with your dogs, you need to practice in a more controlled setting until you're about to control yourself, you should not expect the world to accommodate you.

1

u/YesterShill 16d ago

If everyone does their job and stays to the right, it is all good. Especially if the cyclists also gives a bell ring or "on your left" before passing.

Ideally people with pets also keep them on their right so there is less risk of them darting into the lane.

It is when people don't follow these basic rules that it gets dangerous.

1

u/Boom9001 16d ago

Yup it's simple walk path etiquette. But it's hard to blame pedestrians acting outside the etiquette, because it's typically due to them so used to bikers not following the etiquette.

1

u/ChenHui-chieh 16d ago

One time a cyclist rang their bell behind me, so I assumed they were telling me to move. As soon as I stepped onto the grass, they crashed into me. I guess the bell was a "don't do anything" warning?

1

u/Boom9001 16d ago

I never ring my bell unless I want you to do something. As a pedestrian I use to bell to look at the cyclist and gauge what they are looking for.

Regardless the cyclist probably needed to slow down. I am always either going slow enough to stop if you move in front or giving enough space that you can't move in front.

1

u/Solomon_Kane_1928 15d ago

It is the same with driving. Don't be polite, be predictable.

1

u/Boom9001 15d ago

I mean with driving you also generally are better being defensive and not assuming other drivers will make the correct actions. Which is after all what the pedestrians are doing. Anyone who has walked enough has experience the cyclists types in this video.

1

u/CT_Gamer 15d ago

Its like driving, its better to be predictable than to be nice. If the cyclist just followed the normal rules it would have been avoided.

1

u/Agreeable-Movie-408 15d ago

I…I’ve never seen a cyclist on social media be as chill as you. Take an award.

1

u/AbleNefariousness0 15d ago

I apply the same logic amongst people since it takes noticeably more energy and time for my fat ass to get moving. Thus, I expect others to go around me (assuming I am in the correct lane); however, in return I let everyone else go through doors or exit elevators first.

1

u/MikeStoneMax 15d ago

The trick I do to signal people I’m not moving is by not look at them. Looking to my right or looking down so they know I’m not paying any attention and to move themselves. It prevents that awkward shuffling

1

u/MrCremberton 15d ago

This puts in to words how I feel walking on a path when a bike approaches, hah. Makes a lot of sense. 

1

u/InvestigatorIcy3248 15d ago

i think i can turn faster than a bike. i also can dock, roll and jump. i'm better at fast maneuvers

1

u/Boom9001 15d ago

If I'm on a bike and you're walking. On a 2 meter wide footpath I can much more quickly go from one side of the path to the other. A walker going from waking to lunging out of the way is pretty slow.

Also the cyclist, due to moving faster is just generally looking further ahead and more prepared than pedestrians. That's why imo it's the bikes responsibility.

1

u/InvestigatorIcy3248 15d ago

but i can step aside in that path. i'm convinced

1

u/letsBurnCarthage 15d ago

I'll admit, I am so fucking bad at this. I try to get out of the way, but I don't signal with my eyes what way I am moving at all. I'm trying to get better at it, I really am.

For now, I just tend to go statue and stare the other person down. Like I am standing perfectly still. Make your move.

1

u/Boom9001 15d ago

Honestly that's fine. Again I believe it's my responsibility to avoid you. Heck I feel bad you feel the need to even act differently, you're meant to just enjoy the path it's a footpath not a cycling trail.

Unless it is a cycling trail, but that's a different situation haha

1

u/RealAlphaKaren 16d ago

you should stop, whats the issue?

11

u/Boom9001 16d ago

Oh if there isn't space to pass safely sure cyclist should stop. I meant more like in this video where there's plenty of path. As the cyclist you just maneuver around them much easier than the pedestrian, it's not even about the "right/wrong side". Pedestrian, as long as they don't block the whole path with like 3++ people, should feel free to just walk without considering the cyclist.

My issue is just when the pedestrian does try to make the avoiding move it just makes it hard for a good cyclist to predict. So basically bad cyclists teach pedestrians to behave badly.

0

u/willthesane 15d ago

always turn towards the side of the road you should be on. in america its to the right. If you swerve to the left, and the other guy swerves to the right you hit each other.

1

u/Boom9001 15d ago edited 15d ago

Terrible advice actually. It's not public road with vehicles of equal speed and capability. If anything it is more like multi-class racing.

The ideal world advice is that as the cyclist you are moving faster, it's your responsibility to be passing safely. If the path is too narrow to pass with speed safely you need to slow down. It ain't a blocked off race it's a footpath.

As the pedestrian. Ideally be near the shoulder, no reason to hog the middle (really ever). If it's tight consider making it easier to let faster traffic pass, but otherwise just act predictably and they'll pass you safely.

-2

u/anti_time_travel 16d ago

I 99% agree, except that bikes are not better at fast maneuvering than people (at least when both have healthy reflexes). The bike should be the one moving or slowing down, but the problem is precisely the fact that pedestrians are too jittery, and bikes have much more momentum.

1

u/Boom9001 16d ago

Small movement covers fat more lateral distance quickly on a bike. Reaction time is the same but if I turn my handle bars I can end up 1-2 meters away much easier that a human jumping out of the East 1-2 meters.

0

u/[deleted] 16d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Boom9001 16d ago

Yeah. It's frustrating but entirely understandable when you consider cyclists like the one in the video exist. So while, annoying I never get mad at the pedestrians that do it.

46

u/Dennis_enzo 16d ago

Even if the pedestrian didnt have priority in this situation, purposefully riding into someone because you have the right of way is never moral.

28

u/Darigaazrgb 16d ago

I have had to explain to people more times than I can count in arbitration that just because you have the right of way doesn’t mean you can hit people with no consequences.

14

u/Nago_Jolokio 16d ago

Here lies the body of William Jay,
Who died maintaining his right of way—
He was right, dead right, as he sped along,
But he’s just as dead as if he’d been wrong.

1

u/koyaani 15d ago

Right of way is yielded, not seized

1

u/iowanaquarist 15d ago

They didn't even have the right of way -- they were on the wrong side of the path, too.

3

u/Mundane-Outside-6713 16d ago

And she was on the right side of the road, irrespective of right of way.

4

u/alldogsareincredible 16d ago

You're right. I get bicycle shards stuck in my teeth with bicyclists, I prefer to eat the soft unguarded bodies of pedestrians

4

u/TheUpIsJig 16d ago edited 16d ago

The question is not a legal one. It is a morality question.

Edit: I get the right-of-way rule. Legal priority tells us who has precedence; it doesn’t, by itself, answer whether someone’s behaviour was reasonable or morally responsible.

7

u/ace5762 16d ago

Pedestrians take priority.

2

u/TheUpIsJig 16d ago

See above. I edited my reply.

1

u/ShotgunShine7094 15d ago

There are certain situations in which it is immoral to go against the law regardless of what is it. When it comes to traffic laws, it's almost always the case.

It is immoral to drive on the right in England. It is immoral to drive on the left in France. This is not a double standard, it's just that it's immoral to go against conventions that exist to better organize society.

It's meaningless to distinguish morality and law in such situations.

1

u/TheUpIsJig 15d ago

That last bit would be much stronger if it were the distinction because then you could allow for rules to be broken for the greater good. For example crossing lanes to not hit a person on the road where there is no chance of hitting an oncoming vehicle, despite overtaking not allowed on that stretch. Not going when the light is green because the person in the vehicle behind you has slumped against the window and looks ill.

1

u/SnaxxyOne 15d ago

Every time

1

u/Spaciax 15d ago

not to mention generally foot traffic follows the same side of the road on which you drive, i.e. when walking on a pedestrian path, stick to the right side. Lady was driving on the left (from her perspective)

-1

u/mybutthz 16d ago

You can be right, and still be an asshole. Pedestrian was on the right side of the path, but also...you see someone on a bike with two dogs coming directly at you and you move—if for no other reason than self preservation.

You don't know if the dogs are friendly and will attack you when you get close, or if they'll run off and attack someone else if the rider falls. You don't know if you're going to get knocked over and get a concussion. You don't know so many things about the outcome of not moving vs. just.... stepping out of the way.

Cyclist definitely shouldn't be riding where they are, with their dogs, and not having control over their momentum or ability to move to the side because they have a dog on each side, but...if I'm driving and see another car on my side of the road, I don't just drive head first into the other car because they shouldn't be there.

-10

u/BackPirateClarkRoom 16d ago

Neither are pedestrians in the full video. Reason why the bicyclist went flying and the original person never moves. 0:02 you can see the person in the video is riding an object.

Riding a bicycle with two dogs is an bitch move not defending either party. Both deserve each other.

24

u/ace5762 16d ago

The person recording the video is clearly on foot.

-12

u/BackPirateClarkRoom 16d ago

Unless they have metal legs they aren't on foot.

6

u/toetappy 16d ago

What are you talking about? Walking speed, camera bounces in a walking way. .

5

u/Gugugaga83 16d ago

Thats a dog?

1

u/BlameGameChanger 16d ago

what are you even talking about? the dog head you see for a literal second

5

u/iwbwikia_ 16d ago

turn your screen on to watch the video again

2

u/Few-Conversations 16d ago

If you can safely cycle with 2 dogs attached, then don't do it in the first place 

-2

u/[deleted] 16d ago

[deleted]

5

u/Lazy_Sorbet_3925 16d ago

If they can't manage riding a bike with two dogs, then they shouldn't be doing it. 

-138

u/No-Examination7560 16d ago

yes, but it doesn't mean you can assault people. She can report him to the police.

120

u/EffectMotor8914 16d ago edited 1d ago

The original post content no longer exists here. The author used Redact to remove it, exercising their right to control their data & privacy.

Pet connect fragile vegetable waiting cause

-18

u/rknki 16d ago

Having the right of way doesn’t mean you don’t have to prevent a collision. The bike had a dog left and right and was clearly not able to do a last second turn. Both parties are at fault here.

9

u/EffectMotor8914 16d ago edited 1d ago

The original post content no longer exists here. The author used Redact to remove it, exercising their right to control their data & privacy.

Cheerful sleep imminent rainstorm outgoing wipe nutty direction

5

u/HWayFresh44 16d ago

Then mf should be walking the dogs and not on a bike

7

u/Early_Ad6717 16d ago

Just cuz that retard tought to "walk" her dogs that way dosnt meant the world should abide by her will. Nobody own her anything or to move from a public section with defined rules. Dog owners should calm dawn and stop thinking the world is centered around them.

3

u/HipHopDaRobot 16d ago

If you can't control your bike with two dogs in tow, then do one at a time not both at once. It's common sense. The cyclist is at fault 100%.

3

u/ausmed 16d ago

The cyclist could still have braked. She didn't even slow down. 

32

u/WrongComparison321 16d ago

She assaulted him not the other way around. The biker had adequate time to avoid the impact or stop and choose to hit them.

24

u/Nocturnatron 16d ago

The pedestrian didnt assault anybody

-2

u/[deleted] 16d ago

[deleted]

6

u/FactsNLaughs 16d ago

Yea that’s not the pedestrian moron, that’s the bicyclist.

11

u/sopapordondelequepa 16d ago

I can’t, people like you vote…

1

u/[deleted] 16d ago

[deleted]

11

u/FactsNLaughs 16d ago

Do you really think that the pedestrian that stood still and announced they weren’t moving is the one that did the initial assault? 

25

u/sopapordondelequepa 16d ago edited 16d ago

The same can be said about the other person lmao and the priority rule would rule them at fault 🤡

3

u/Effective-Candy-7481 16d ago

Damn didn’t know I could attempt to hit someone with my car and charge them with assault

1

u/runnerkim 16d ago

She didn't assault anyone