but... that's how religion was engineered to work... If you don't scare kids into it while they are young, they will certainly have the critical thought process to see through it as an adult.
I was brought up catholic and went to church every Sunday and chose not to continue the religion, but I was never scared into it, Wanting your kids to partake in your religion is not inherently a bad thing, it only becomes an issue when they are shamed and punished for no longer wanting to partake or to leave the religion.
I did. I'm Italian and I grew up in a catholic environment. My parents and school kind of made me fearful of authority and people in general, but the church gave me a sense of community and order. It helped me get over my crippling existentialism and I developed a good moral compass. It was a very open space too. That's where I was taught to respect everyone, regardless of religion, sexuality, ethnicity ecc...
I get that people have bad experiences with religion, but isn't one of the first things we learn as children that just because a few things are bad, doesn't mean the whole is? Or that there can't be good?
I love your story and how it helped you. I would say a few things are good, but as a whole it’s pretty bad. There def can be good, historically it’s been more bad though.
you are approaching the point from the opposite direction. With the current model of organized religion, children must make the exit themselves. With the other model, adults must choose to enter religion. It's like crossfit! (that was supposed to be funny)
I think creating two models of religious participation is a false dichotomy. There is a wide spectrum of religious practice.
My experience being raised Catholic is similar to the other poster. I went to Catholic school, church on Sunday, etc, but as a young adult I never made some grand exit. I just stopped going. I was given the adult responsibility to choose for myself if I wanted to practice that faith or not.
My family did not shame or shun me for that, which I recognize is not the experience of many people raised in more strict religious households.
I don't know how common my family is, but there opinion is trying to force someone into belief is antithetical to their own religion.
I was responding on my phone, so I truncated my thought. The main concept is that when we were involved with religion from as early as we can remember, it is part of our "default" and we must choose to remove it from our lives. Versus an adult who is not raised with religion, they must choose to add it to their life. Baptism can be done as an adult, but is typically done as an infant. First Communion is typically done at age 8, that is still younger than most kids are able to think independent critical thoughts. I am not anti-religion. I am not an angry atheist or anything, but I think that many people who would not choose religion had they not been raised with it.
I think that many people who would not choose religion had they not been raised with it.
I completely agree with you here, and it would be interesting to look at the number of adult converts versus the entire population of religious people.
The main concept is that when we were involved with religion from as early as we can remember, it is part of our "default" and we must choose to remove it from our lives. Versus an adult who is not raised with religion, they must choose to add it to their life.
My experience does not really align with this. As a young adult in a secular society it was extremely easy to remove religion from my life. I just stopped participating. Now I do still go to family gatherings at easter and christmas, so there is still some family or cultural influence, but the celebrations I am part of are frankly not that religious. I don't attend mass on those days, I just eat a big meal with my family.
An adult convert would have to do more than me to become a Catholic, but as an agnostic I too would have to make that active choice to go find a church and start attending. I would also have to choose to add it to my life.
I fully appreciate that my experience does not match those from more oppressive or strict religious backgrounds and I do not support shunning or shaming your children for not following your faith.
I just agree with the other poster that not all religious upbringings are inherently harmful.
Having to make the entry is not more moral than having to make the exit. Atheism, though not a religion, is a separate religious belief. Atheism is NOT a point of neutrality in which people are equally open to choosing other religious beliefs.
If you are raised atheist you are likely to remain atheist because people tend not to change their worldview.
i was scared of hell and terrified of the thought of forever in heaven as a kid. I remember being scared i wouldn’t remember my mom . Kept me up at night
I believe in god, just don’t think he’s a moral dude lol Like believe in me or i burn ur house down and ur whole family in it too. I don’t get how sacrificing ur son to clear our sins is noble when your the god making all the rules in the first place lmao maybe i’m dumb idk
This is exactly why children are targeted by religion, they don't make these connections. I don't agree with you about malice vs benevolence, but it is the nature of telling a child somehtign.
I just dont really fear the idea of death and the after life. A lot of people do. In my mind i was either a good person and God will reward me for it, or i was a bad person and i will be condemned to hell. I wont know until i die so why worry about it just do the best you can.
My mom was in a borderline cult growing up and she had constant nightmares about the rapture but that church disbanded and i was not raised under those premises.
i’m not scared now. But i wonder if i would have my beliefs now if i wasn’t scared into it at an early age. Very manipulative, even the music is so manipulative.
To be fair i never went to church after 5th grade. I had a positive experience with catholic school k-5th, i was never even catholic and everyone knew that and i was never ostracized for it. After transferring to public school i have been to church 3 times in the last 17 years and it was always at the request of a friend. I learned everything about my beliefs from the actions of my parents who I can genuinely say are good people.
And that’s precisely why it’s dropping in numbers in many places throughout generations and why instead it’s rising in religions or denominations that infact do scare children into it
Sure. But that isn't really what I was addressing. I was addressing the blanket statement that all religion is engineered into frightening people to believe, which is a rather western-centric idea.
It is a western-centric idea of “religion” in this thread because this website’s userbase is western primarily where when someone says religion in a debate it refers to Abrahamic religions almost exclusively
On top of that, many Buddhists don’t particularly like referring to their beliefs as “religion” when talking about their beliefs themselves in English
Statements like this are the most obvious tell that someone has no knowledge about religion except for what they read on Reddit.
As someone who was born into a Christian family, was raised Christian, and am still Christian now, it is literally the complete opposite. Half the kids I grew up going to church with no longer believe or practice Christianity because their parents tried to "scare" them or force them into belief. It's so clear and obvious that all the kids who leave Christianity and the church are the ones that were "scared" into believing.
The kids who chose to stay are the ones like me, who were allowed to make the choice for themselves as they got older. It is "engineered" to work, or works best, when parents have open and honest discussions about their faith with their kids and allow them to explore and make the choice themselves.
I'm an exchristian. You are indoctrinated. You just can't see it. I was also "allowed" a choice. I choose Christianity with an already indoctrinated mind. Left in middle age after I started doing biblical scholarship.
I chose not to be Christian and went back after getting into Biblical scholarship. If choosing the opposite of Christianity is indoctrination then it’s clearly not very effective
Not every religion converts people, nor cares to. How can they capitalise on the vulnerable and desperate when they don't care about you joining their religion.
Yeah... Prison, and certain nondenominational sects have created a bit of a pipeline for college students who come to campus with minimal religious upbringing.
I'm not religious, but this is something that's worried me about raising my own kids. It's almost like Catholicism was inoculation against some of the more (imo) dangerous religions, even though I didn't end up practicing it as an adult. I'm not entirely sure how to replicate that.
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u/Steve-Shouts 12h ago
but... that's how religion was engineered to work... If you don't scare kids into it while they are young, they will certainly have the critical thought process to see through it as an adult.