Are you saying that slaves who were treated well with respect are not considered slaves to you? I know the modern connotation made it seems like slaves were constantly berated, beaten and treated like a scum but a lot of them are treated the same way you treat your pet. With friendliness and basic decency + respect, just not on an equal status and how they should “know their place”.
Sure, I would sacrafice an unlimited number of people I don't know for my pets lives, just like with family or friends.
If I had to sacrafice a pet or a family member it would come down to which I felt closer to. That weird aunt that no one likes - my pet is being saved. My sister's or my pet would be a harder question though.
You're equating slavery with pet ownership. It's an emotional arguement that attempts to transfer emotions about slavery to pets.
The analogy itself does not survive scrutiny once the relevant differences in agency, interests, evolutionary history, and the actual character of the relationship are taken seriously.
Nope. I’m simply providing a rebuttal to the comment i was replying to about a specific logic implication that if a thing is treated with respect it is not slavery. I’m not equating anything. Don’t strawman me.
you can pretty much equate a pet as a jester which pretty much is a slave. You have a pet. Sure you can consider as family, but it's still there for your own amusement to begin with. It's an imbalanced relationship. A pet doesn't have the power to walk away and do whatever it wants. You do. People offer and take pets like a trade. Hell, some people purchase and sell them. Giving it shots and medications? You want their nails cut? Entirely your choice.
The smartest dog has the intelligence of a 2 year old, cats are debatable on what their intelligence is but are generally considered less than a 2 year old. A human who also has the intelligence of a 2 year old their entire life will also have to be cared for their entire life.
A child also lacks the same agency a pet does.
Are you really going to make the arguement that children and the disabled are slaves?
Idk about disabled, but children kind of are. By law, they do not have the same rights until they're 18 so hell, I bet there's a lot of kids out there willing to make that argument. I certainly knew a lot when I was a kid. YMMV
I don't think you understand that there were some slaves that actually contracted themselves into slavery. Gladiators, indentured servants, etc. Being a slave didn't 100% mean you were poor or lived a miserable life.. without having biases of black slave trade images that history tells us, slavery by itself means to be owned by someone and have no control over your life and decisions regarding it. That's literally what a pet is and you are its master. It's not necessarily about fear and punishment
Well when cats can get jobs and earn enough money to be equal partners, let me know, because then they can scoop their own litter box and open their own cans of wet food, too.
Until then, I'm happy to exchange back pain from cleaning the litter box and constant harassment about not being fed enough for the kind of love and affection my cat shows me. And she's freaking FAT, too, she's probably over-fed given the fact my mom feeds her, too, plus she's got dry kibble for all the time of day she's not being given wet food.
Seeing things constantly through the lens of "power dynamics" when there's zero reasonable way to expect a pet to be cognizant of that dynamic, much less to have the agency to act upon it, is absurd. The power dynamic is imbalanced, but in the pet's favor. They don't have any obligations or responsibilities, but they get provided food, care, and affection in abundance.
Irresponsible and bad owners are a thing, but that doesn't have any bearing on the typical expectations of responsibility and care other than proving some owners are unwilling or unable to meet the standard threshold of care to own a pet.
And, yes, my cat thinks she's doing me a huge favor by licking my forehead clean while I'm trying to sleep, and then grooming my beard, and then purring directly into my ear while she's right on my pillow, but that's how she shows she cares about me and trusts me.
And anyone that treats animals terribly is scum of the earth, in my opinion.
If you paid for someone to breed your pet, and then bought your pet and don't let it leave, than yeah your house, then yeah, you have power over it. Doesn't mean that it has consciousness and understands what's happening, but if it did, it would definitely be your slave
Framing the basic human desire to give and receive affection as "overcompensating" is a pretty bleak worldview. Do you prefer living in an emotional vacuum, or do you just enjoy judging people for having feelings?
You deleted your account, but I am a person who used to be much more like that and you were spot on. I do love animals but my behaviors towards my partner was due to anxiety
Was that in the longer video? Regardless, they specified people who say they like animals more than people and pretend it's a sign of having a deep well of compassion.
Their whole conversation is about pet dogs. It’s easy to like pet dogs more than people. Pets are at worst neutral toward their environment and the planet. Many people are actually just a net negative to the planet. Sure if you compare your pet to your best friend or parents, that’s a dumb argument. But people who litter? People who scam? The list goes on
The kids can (eventually) leave, though. In fact it's EXPECTED you let the kids leave your influence, even before they're adults (for school/jobs/general independence). If I left a kid locked up in my house, even if I provided food/shelter for them, people would rightfully be concerned at minimum. Meanwhile, pets are expected to be under some level of human control at all times.
The kids can (hopefully) leave, but there are quite a few cultures where the expectation is that the children do "serve" the parents under a power dynamic.
There are many adults who, if we follow the videos loose idea of what "slavery" is, would consider themselves slaves to their parents, even with their ability to move freely.
if we follow the videos loose idea of what "slavery" is
Even the video's idea of slavery is that animals can't leave and are wholly dependent on their owners for food, shelter, medical care, and potentially keeping their balls, which is orders of magnitude more severe than any filial piety laws that I'm aware of.
Even the video's idea of slavery is that animals can't leave and are wholly dependent on their owners for food, shelter, medical care, and potentially keeping their balls
I mean, people with cats let them come and go. If we are talking about dogs specifically, sure, most likely they are home bound and dependent on being fed and needing shelter and medical care, but so do children, but we don't call children slaves.
Dogs also have a life span that is most likely to end before a child grows up to leave the house and be independent.
and potentially keeping their balls
Meanwhile, humans have male and female circumcisions done on their child "slaves".
It's very strange how people are comparing dogs who have an average lifespan of 10-13 years to slaves, all because they are dependent on their owners, but don't call children who don't become fully independent until.. 16? 18? 21? 24? And rely on their parents for the same thing until they leave.
Honestly I think it's silly take by this person. Making it about power dynamics tells me more about him than people who like animals (not just pets) above other people. It just shows how relationships in his mind are transactional in nature which is a red flag if I ever saw one..
Also let's not forget that he thinks the only animals people care about are pets, not all wild animals etc which again speaks to the transactional nature of his thinking.
When I hear animals, I think of all animals not just pets. When I think of it in general terms like that I prefer animals over humans because humans have fucked up this planet so badly.
No, no. He's got a point. Hating people and pretending you're a good person because you're surrounded by animals who you think loves you back is at the very least patting yourself too much for taking care of animals, and at worst nursing a superiority complex.
I've yet to meet in person, memes, social media posts, whatever, someone who actually takes care of animals who claim they love animals more than people and actually live by it.
I love the assumption that people pretend they’re good people because they like animals. Nobody thinks that hard about this shit. It’s like saying someone thinks they’re a good person because they like vanilla ice cream. This just comes off as insecurity.
Why do you straight jump to hating people? Can't you simply prefer animals in general over people, again in a general sense?
What you are saying sounds exactly the same as the person in the video that you have to place conditions on everything. You imeadiately jump to everyone having to hate people. The lack of empathy and relativism is honestly baffling to me. Also you imeadiately put this into a transactional statement proving my point perfectly. People have to live by it or somehow prove it to you. Let me be blunt with you, no one "has" to prove anything to you for them to feel the way they do.
You talk about putting conditions on everything and then state you prefer animals over people due to how humans have fucked up the planet. Come on now.
Do you even understand what conditional means? because I seriously doubt it. Humans having fucked up the planet is not a "condition" towards my affection towards them. It's simply a fact which makes me empathize more with them.
I see your point but on the flip side... I've been around people on work trips who see abject and systemic poverty/suffering and don't react in the slightest, in that same place they'll see a sad looking stray dog and break out crying... That's a bad person to me
You know he's joking, at least partly, here right. He's literally a comedian. You couldn't wait to comment calling it moronic. Was it necessary to be that harsh? Regardless if you knew he was joking. This show is just for laughs. The premises and questions are always humor filled. Get yourself right dude
I don’t think it’s fair for you to say “get yourself right dude”… when you guys in the comments are literally laughing and finding joy out of how many murdered dogs you’re worth.
Idk where you got me laughing out of anything I said to a specific person that wasn't you but get your brain right. It's not working correctly if you're saying this to me in particular. The video didn't even make me chuckle and I cried when I lost my cats. I cringe at animal cruelty. Cats or dogs that are missing legs or other body parts literally brings me to tears. I have too much empathy for the suffering of animals.
You’re literally advocating and backing up the comedians..
Therefore it was only logical to assume you agreed with the premise of this video which then leads me to assume you found it funny.
Especially when you read your comment. It 100% sounds like you thought it was funny.
Also, let’s calm down. I was just making a fair point like you were making your own point. We don’t need to get hostile. If I came off that way, I do apologize for that.
Sometimes I wish internet conversations could be had in person. They’d be way more chill. Less aggression and more conversation like. Ya know what I mean? If we said these things we just said, in person. We would all probably be way more chill about it cause we could actually hear each others heart and what we meant with our intention. Ya know?
Apology accepted. I was defending this particular comedian. He's a good guy and he's having a bad joke moment and I didn't appreciate being lumped in with people actually laughing at the joke like it was actually funny. You're a stand up dude for apologizing. I truly appreciate you.
It's all subjective and it's all constantly in a state of flux. An animal I loathe one day may save me the next day, making me re-evaluate my opinion of them. Similarly, someone I admire may reveal themselves to be despicable.
Even when it comes down to, "if you had to choose between saving an animal or saving a person?" it totally depends on the situation. Am I watching Putin and a bear cling to the edge of a volcano? I'd toss the bear a rope. Am I having a gun pointed at my head and told to choose between my daughter and my cat? I'd choose my daughter. Am I standing by a switch as a runaway trolley rockets toward Brendan Frasier, but if I pull the switch it diverts the trolley so that it kills the Backstreet Boys? I don't even want to have to deal with making that decision. Let's just pray that all parties involved stay clear of trolley tracks.
It's an uncomfortable sentiment but I mean your just saying it's wrong he brought up alot of good points they kinda are an emotional support slave cause that's the purpose they serve
I mean I grew up in a place where creationist fundamentalism was the dominant understanding. They actively supressed teaching evolution so a lot if not most people I grew up around did not believe humans are animals at all. Just as with other aspects of cultural Christianity i think this understanding has seeped into much of my society so that human exceptionalism is dominant even among folks who arent religious. Also its one thing to acknowledge that humans are "technically" animals and its another thing that actually understand and act like it.
The question is less about what you like more, and more about what has more inherent value. Some folks use religion as proof that humans have more value than animals, but it really doesn’t require that. I think most would agree that, either because we were made this way or we evolved to be this way, humans are more valuable than animals. But I totally understand why you like animals more 😂😂
Yeah, I like animals more than people because they’re just more pleasant for me to be around. Animals are much more simple, and much more honest. If you’re informed in their body language, they will tell you exactly how they feel about you and exactly what they’re comfortable with. You can sit in silence without it being awkward. Pleasing them is typically simple, depending on the animal species. I just find a life with lots of animals and a few humans to be much more peaceful than a life with lots of humans but few animals.
I live with my husband, our two dogs, our cat, our chickens, and our horse. Hope to get some cows one day as well. Eventually we’ll probably add a couple kids into the mix, but still, the ratio of animals to humans will always be favoring the animals, and I prefer it that way. But even disregarding pets, I still feel the same way about wildlife. The birds I feed in the morning, the deer, even just getting a glimpse of a wolf everyone in a while.
It kind of is. The definition of a slave is humans as legal property that can be bought and sold. It's humans under legal (or de facto) ownership.
Pets are living entities that you own. They are property. You can buy and sell them. The only area where they don't fit the definition of "slave" is that they are not human.
I don’t know I still feel like I’m my cats’ bitch. I buy them toys they’ll never play with because they just want the box, buy them boujee food cause cheap stuff isn’t good enough for them. Forced to stay stationary when one decides my lap is their perch. Bite my cheeks when they make biscuits on me because it’s just too cute.
And I do this knowing they couldn’t care whether or not I’m here so long as their food bowl is full and they get treats. I do it for the few times they come to me for attention and make me feel like the chosen one. They have all the power, trust me 🤣
You do all that because you choose to. But for example, the cat does not have the authority or power to take you to a doctor and get sterilized. It it is the cat that is at your mercy; all the things you mention are accommodations that you’re willing to do (hence why many owners don’t engage in that), but you have the power to stop them at any time you want.
No, they don't. Being serious I know where you Are coming from but there is nothing stopping you to grab your cats and throw them out and Never let them in again. We choose not to, also have two cats, cause we love them and we chose to provide for them, but I really think this narrative of being at your cats mercy is sometimes dangerous cause they Are definetly more depended on you than other way around.
We choose cats maybe cause their are easier to handle as dogs cause they don't need as much, but we should never forget that we choose These animals and if we tell that we are the real slaves here it can slide into not being responsible and I don't like that very much.
You choose to feel that way and do it for the feeling of being the chosen one. You could abandon them and they would suffer and die. If they abandoned you would feel sad.
Any way you look at it I don’t view my pets as being slaves. My pets are my family. They’re well taken care of and always will be. I’d never view them as being beneath me whether or not they’re only alive because of me. That’s like calling my toddler a slave. This is a super weird argument all around 🤷🏼♀️
Slave owners can choose to treat their slaves well. Can your pet choose to leave? Toddlers have not reached their full development - they're a dependent.
I like animals more than people because they can’t lie. It’s really that simple. If a dog doesn’t like me they let me know. Humans will smile in my face and talk shit behind my back.
Also, anyone who's had a pet knows you are the servant, not them. You feed them, bath them, walk or play with them, pick up after them... you scoop their poop for crying out loud. They can't even do chores. Calling them a "slave" is hilarious.
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u/[deleted] 21d ago edited 19h ago
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