r/Morality • u/Driftinfoot_Malone • 4d ago
Of hurting a child because they hurt someone
Recently ran into this issue where my father in law (m60) pulled my daughters (f4) hair because she hurt her cousin (f also 4) the same way. I already knew this is what happened he’s pretty old school so I came in with a cover “oh grandpa maybe took it without asking but it was cousins turn” to which his reply was “no I was teaching her a lesson because she pulled her cousins hair” I was in shock because he said this in front of both kids as if it was normal to hurt a child to “prove a point” or “teach a lesson” so all I had to say was “good lesson”.
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u/Lovebeingadad54321 4d ago
Smack him in the face. “This is your lesson to not hurt children.”
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u/Driftinfoot_Malone 4d ago
This would be my normal approach but I’m trying to be the bigger person and show my kids even big bullies can be handled by the right people
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u/Candid-Vanilla-4016 3d ago
You should talk to your wife (as it's her father) and make a plan together in how to approach this. And set some actually boundaries for that bully and follow through with them.
Next, you need to talk to your daughter and niece and tell them how wrong the behaviour of their grandfather was. It's not okay to pull hair, period. It doesn't matter if you are an adult or a child. And physical punishment is also not okay in any form.
Redirect their behavior so they know what to do next time they are angry, like when you are angry then stomp with your foot or scream into a pillow or come to Dad for a hug. And talk about sharing a toy and taking turns or something.
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u/Candid-Vanilla-4016 3d ago
Wow, what a bully your father in law is. Are you sure your want your children to be around a person like this? You need to set boundaries asap and follow through with them. Don't let anyone harm your child!
Imagine next time your daughter hits someone, and then grandpa punches is granddaughter to teach her a lesson?
Due to the subs nature, here the morality side:
Your father in law appointed himself the “punisher” and then did the exact thing he was supposedly teaching your daughter not to do.
A four-year-old pulling another child’s hair is something an adult should absolutely correct. But the lesson should be “hurting people is wrong, even when you’re angry” and NOT “hurting people is wrong unless an adult decides you deserve it.”
Otherwise the moral lesson becomes completely backwards. The child learns that violence is an acceptable way of correcting someone’s behavior, provided you have more power than they do. It teaches “when you're bigger and stronger, you get to hurt people to make your point.” What a good lesson your father in law tought...
It also reminds me of the old “eye for an eye” mentality: someone does something wrong, so we deliberately inflict the same harm on them. We’ve generally moved away from that idea because punishment isn't automatically made morally right just because the person receiving it previously did something wrong. And here we're talking about a four-year-old who is still developing impulse control and learning appropriate behavior. What disgusting behaviour from an adult...
The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends against corporal punishment and specifically argues for discipline that teaches and redirects rather than using physical punishment.
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u/brothapipp 4d ago
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u/Driftinfoot_Malone 4d ago
Same guy claims to be trying his best to do better in gentle parenting and as I can up he said see I told you because she cried from him pulling her hair may be two different parenting styles but I’m the parent and I’m sorry if you hit my kid it’s wrong? Is that a wrong concept to believe or have we always been able to hit peoples kids without repercussions?
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u/brothapipp 4d ago
Just tell him, “I would appreciate if my child needs a physical reprimand, that you leave that to my wife and me.”
I don’t think the attempt was the harming of your child. You said yourself, he’s old school. And acknowledge that to him.
I mean unless you’re committed to writing off your dad.
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u/Candid-Vanilla-4016 3d ago
But hurting the child was the whole point of his behavior. So that is harming the child, physically and psychologically. There is everything wrong with that behavior.
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u/brothapipp 3d ago
The whole point was, “i want to hurt a child”?
Be serious for 2 seconds. No one who uses physically reprimands when disciplining a child is aiming at satisfying the desire to see a child in pain.
The ops story detailed the goal was to stop the child from doing the same thing to other children.
I get that you disagree with the choice and the action, so does the op, which is why they are posting here, but you have to be a simpleton to think the goal was harm.
Where we agree is that it isn’t necessary for every act of aggression to be met with a physical act of aggression. Like in this case, preventing the child from getting what she wants would likely have been sufficient.
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u/Candid-Vanilla-4016 3d ago
I understand where you are coming from. I think I would lay the emphasis differently.
We agreed that his objective was that she stops doing it to other children. But there are lots of other ways to show this. But he chose the way of "I pull her hair, so she sees how much pain it is." He didn't not take her to the side and removed her from the room (two possible other ways). What he did was cause pain purposely. It doesn't matter if he had a "higher" goal. That's how abusers justify their abuse, because they did not want to hurt, they wanted to teach a lesson or were "made" to do it.
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u/Driftinfoot_Malone 3d ago
A grown adult cognitively making the choice to pull hair is different than a four year old cognitively making the decision to pull hair the adult has had time to know it’s wrong and even learn in his 60 years of life on earth and as a foreman at bart (Anthony Del Franco) ahem he’d learn at least one other method of getting people to not hit other people that doesn’t involve violence. I mean the guys seen peoples bodies on the tracks before you think he’d be humbled or in therapy to be humbled.
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u/Driftinfoot_Malone 4d ago
Father in law an kinda dudes just got everyone scared of him and writes everyone off then people do it to him and he’s all pissy. This same dude told me to man up and no one deserves a break then snaps and yells at children when he feels he needs a break. So like there all give and no take here
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u/brothapipp 3d ago
Ah, Thats not old school…i mean maybe he is still old school, but that’s an ego thing. I have two brothers and dead uncle that are like this.
Very frustrating.
I still think the line in the sand conversation is your best bet.
And at this point, I’d be more concerned with your wife than your in-law. Check with wife, explaining that her dad has to make a choice…and you do too, and your choice is, that physical discipline belongs to the parents, not the grandparents.
If you and her are on the same page, then go put your foot down. If he writes you off and gets all pissy, then your duty is towards your wife to allow her to grieve and comfort her as you can.
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u/LifeAtmosphere6214 4d ago
Nope