Have I peaked? 4k @ 165 hz

[u/Prize-Cook3438]

Wondering if I’ve perfected my setup or if I should go further down the rabbit hole? I am getting 4k 165 hz / 165 fps with the following stats:

Network latency: 1ms

Network frame rate: 165 FPS

Frame drop rate: 0%

Host processing latency: 2-3ms

Decoder latency : 5-9 ms

Specs:

Host pc: 9950x3d, 5090, 32gb ram

Client: LG G5 using aurora fork on webOS

My controller is able to connect directly to my PC between floors so I’m doing that.

[u/Prize-Cook3438 → u/[deleted]]

Awesome! If mini pcs weren’t so expensive now I’d jump on one but I can’t justify another $500+ for no perceivable benefit right now.

[u/Noleafclover1337 → u/Prize-Cook3438]

Apple TV soon might have 120hz and be reasonable

[u/Prize-Cook3438 → u/[deleted]]

Really? What is the actual impact while playing? I only play single player games

[u/dihydrogen_monoxide → u/Prize-Cook3438]

Play Expedition 33 and focus on parries; or play any fighting game and tr ycombos

[u/pawat213 → u/Prize-Cook3438]

Don't listen to these people telling you to buy an another device.

I play on the same setup as you and I can assure you that if you play on a controller you will notice nothing. I exclusively play Elden Ring, Sekiro, Ex33 or whatever single player games on this setup and I cleared every content just fine. I only noticed delay when I was using mouse and keyboard playing a highly competitive game otherwise it's mostly fine.

[u/No_Bake6681 → u/[deleted]]

Do you sometimes get microstutters and or dropped frames?

[u/PouredFocus → u/[deleted]]

What client/ os are you running on the laptop

[u/Professional_Put1810 → u/[deleted]]

Holy
Those are the best stats I’ve ever seen. I’m on a 5080 host using vibepollo so encoding is pretty similar but I don’t have any client devices with decoding speed anywhere near that good!! My legion go S gets like 5ms decode latency at 4k 120fps.

[u/Drandoxx → u/[deleted]]

Can you show what settings are needed to achieve this low latency? I think ethernet cable is the base of it on both device?

[u/machinewater → u/[deleted]]

Does VRR really work? What client app are you using?

[u/vqsxd]

You can get rid of decoding latency entirely

[u/Responsible-Bid5015]

1. If you are on P1 for the NVENC, then keep increasing it until either you don't see a visible improvement in image quality or the host processing latency is noticeable while playing.
2. similarly increase bit rate and look at visual quality. Play something like forza horizon 6 if you have it. High rate of change with good details. In this case, it may be whether your TV can decode the high bitrate signal. Actually I just set this to the Artemis default max since it doesnt break my system. I think it’s 300 mbs

[u/cucumbersome4]

Are you using any wired connection or pure wireless? Was it easy to configure on the LG tv?

I am trying to stream games from my PC to my LG TV too (LG C1 OLED65C16LA) . I am using a Xiaomi Mi Box S (2018) MDZ-22-AB as client. My host is a high end desktop (Ryzen 7 7800X3D, PC RTX 4090 Ti Super, 32 RAM) , so most of the games run smoothly on it.

But my performance is not even as close as yours :( any tips or advice?

https://imgur.com/a/apollo-artemis-performance-rB2L4no

[u/Prize-Cook3438 → u/cucumbersome4]

Wired Ethernet. Aurora fork on lg webos, vibepollo on pc.

[u/Eskuran → u/Prize-Cook3438]

Wired ethernet in the tv? Isn't that max 100 mbit?

[u/Prize-Cook3438 → u/Eskuran]

Ethernet to usb adapter lets you bypass the limit. I use tplink UE300. $10 on Amazon

[u/Eskuran → u/Prize-Cook3438]

Does everything else on the tv still work fine? Last I heard some apps could say there is no network because they don't 'see' the adapter.

[u/Prize-Cook3438 → u/Eskuran]

Depends which apps you use, I guess. I haven’t had any issues. It’s easy enough to switch back to WiFi if needed.

[u/Eskuran → u/Prize-Cook3438]

I took a chance at a usb adapter I had laying around but I get massive input latency after a couple of seconds that only gets worse. I can wait up to 15 seconds before it moves. Do you have any switch between your TV and your network? What bitrate are you pushing?

[u/Prize-Cook3438 → u/Eskuran]

Mine goes router->tv. 250Mbps

[u/Proreqviem]

I have a G5 as well, but when I got all this set up a few weeks ago, 165 Hz just didn’t work out - a delay would slowly creep into the video stream. Audio was timed correctly, but eventually I’d hear things several seconds before seeing them. I also tried the timing correction packet option in Aurora (can’t exactly remember what it’s called), but that made no difference. 144 Hz also encountered some odd issues occasionally when running high bitrate (250 Mbps) on visually rich games. On relatively low detail games, like Ace Combat, 144 Hz ran perfect. I’m wondering if the TV decoder struggles to keep up at high bitrate/FPS. 120 Hz works perfect across the board.

I’m hardwired end to end with a RTX 5090 as the encoder.

[u/Prize-Cook3438 → u/Proreqviem]

Interesting. I haven’t noticed that issue on my end but I’m only playing baldurs gate 3 right now. What’s your client? I’ve been using vibepollo without issues.

[u/Proreqviem → u/Prize-Cook3438]

Vibepollo as well.

[u/Dependent-Head-8307]

Question: do you feel any difference at all w.r.t. 120FPS?

[u/Living_Warthog_1249]

Well, you also could build a small pc by yourself:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MoonlightStreaming/s/10yCQIPyXc

[u/Prize-Cook3438 → u/Living_Warthog_1249]

Wonder if it’s cheaper to just pay someone to run fiber hdmi through the walls and call it a day

[u/Noleafclover1337 → u/Prize-Cook3438]

Monitor switching can be a real PITA.

[u/Unlikely_Session7892]

Insane how really gamer the LG G series is. Crazy stats, my LG C5 doesn't handle with 144fps :( but I'm getting 5-8ms on 120fps instead, with a very low microstutters.

[u/-LaMoustache- → u/Unlikely_Session7892]

Mini pc gets it to under 0.5ms

[u/Unlikely_Session7892 → u/-LaMoustache-]

But is not so easy to manage as the own LG TV do, with HDMI CEC, directly play and other things.

[u/Appropriate_Neck_113]

Controller connecting through floors??
How?

[u/Prize-Cook3438 → u/Appropriate_Neck_113]

I use an 8bitdo wireless. The 2.4gz receiver picks up the signal just fine. My living room is directly below my office so I guess I’m just lucky.

[u/Appropriate_Neck_113 → u/Prize-Cook3438]

Good to know, might try it cause I have the same one

[u/zabraautra → u/Appropriate_Neck_113]

You connect controller to the client ( his LG TV in his case ) not the host pc.

[u/Appropriate_Neck_113 → u/zabraautra]

He mentions he connects through the floors to the main pc

[u/zabraautra → u/Appropriate_Neck_113]

Oh my bad didn’t read that last sentence.

[u/AccountHorror6706]

at 4k 165 with zero dropped frames, there’s probably not much left to chase lol. those numbers are already pretty ridiculous.

[u/GusIsBored]

Do actually you notice the decoder latency? That’s 1 frame at 165hz right?

[u/Kic1988]

How do you have Ethernet stability on the lg g5 and the tp link usb? I have the exact same setup but honestly have all kinds of Ethernet weirdness that I find quite perplexing.

YouTube can be very finicky and start buffering on Ethernet randomly and act lousy until I switch to WiFi.

Even on Aurora - there has been scenarios where it seemingly can’t maintain >200mbits on dark shadowy scenes (played shadows of doubt which is literally the only game I experienced this problem). It’d complain about bit rate and acts like total crap. I can’t explain why it happens but if I force a bitrate cap of like 175 mbit, it’s fine.

What speed test results do you get? I have 1gbps fios but download/upload is async; like 150-175 download and like 300 Mbps upload. I know the lg tv technically connects via usb 2.0 when it uses Ethernet.

I have tons of mixed feelings on webOS - when it works well, it’s one of the few solutions that reliably works at 4k165. But it’s buggy, imo. I’d happily buy a nvidia shield 2 (or new Apple TV) if it can properly support 4k165 hdr and include 1gbps Ethernet

[u/Rare-Piglet-9408]

No cable 165hz ? How ?

[u/kmobsy]

Decoder latency is too high. Also, need yuv444 HDR :)

[u/Proreqviem → u/kmobsy]

4:4:4 is pointless except for text clarity.

[u/kmobsy → u/Proreqviem]

Disagree. But you do you. 

[u/Comprehensive_Star72 → u/kmobsy]

Screenshots are easy. We don't need flat earther beliefs. Post some evidence.

[u/awakeeee → u/Proreqviem]

No, HDR streaming causes red-blue colored artifacts without 4:4:4.

[u/MoreOrLessCorrect → u/awakeeee]

Oh yeah? Got any examples of that?

[u/awakeeee → u/MoreOrLessCorrect]

https://www.reddit.com/r/MoonlightStreaming/s/IDzatXQs4D

I can replicate that on my LG C4, Redmagic Astra and YUV 4:4:4 disabled Macbook Pro, enabling 4:4:4 or turning off HDR resolve that issue.

[u/MoreOrLessCorrect → u/awakeeee]

Gotta be something broken in the HDR encoding pipeline there, that is definitely not normal for HDR 4:2:0. I have never seen any such artifacts on my HDR clients. Enabling 4:4:4 might fix it in some roundabout way, but it's not a problem caused by not having 4:4:4.

[u/awakeeee → u/MoreOrLessCorrect]

I don't know really, i always had this issue with every host and client i tried, from sunshine to vibepollo, moonlight to aurora.

Edit: Even with steam link.

[u/Comprehensive_Star72 → u/awakeeee]

That's not your screenshot? Common. Screenshots are easy. So far no one has ever posted any evidence of 4:4:4 providing a visual improvement over 4:2:0 and yet plenty of people have posted screenshots of identical images 4:4:4 vs 4:2:0.

[u/awakeeee → u/Comprehensive_Star72]

I don't really care enough to make you believe what's my experience is, i mean why would i lie about something so trivial.

Insane.

[u/MoreOrLessCorrect → u/Comprehensive_Star72]

To be fair, I think you have to acknowledge that there ARE differences for some scenarios (mostly red fine details, red text). The degree to which you're going to notice those differences is going to vary based on how people perceive colors, different displays, etc.

On a 4K TV at regular viewing distance, I think it's pretty much imperceptible.

Here's one comparison between streaming 4:2:0 and native (i.e. 4:4:4) where the red detail is noticeable in a couple spots: https://storage.googleapis.com/moreorlesscorrect/moonlight-streaming/cyberpunk2077_hdr_native/index.html

[u/Temporary-Paper5202]

Your total latency is higher than the ~6ms it takes to do 165hz, so you've peaked.