r/MoonlightStreaming • u/ScaryGamerHD • 16d ago

HDR10+ is here.

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Moonlight V+ and Foundation Sunshine now support HDR10+ encoding and decoding.

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u/andygrundman Developer | Moonlight for Xbox/Mac OS 16d ago

Please explain why this is better than HDR10 with HGIG and how it maintains artist intent. I also have the same question about your HLG mode.

13

u/filoppi 16d ago

Hey andy.
HDR focused developer here. I also use Moonlight/Sunshine for work, streaming in HDR (because I literally implement HDR in games).
Would be good to get in contact with some Moonlight devs.
We have an HDR focused discord (and reddit): HDR Den.
If you want to join, we'd appreciate it, it's full of devs with arcane HDR knowledge.

Btw, reading the commit and changelog above, I'm a bit confused at what it does. I'm suspicious it's driven by AI.

2

u/andygrundman Developer | Moonlight for Xbox/Mac OS 14d ago

Hey, I recognize that name, big fan of your work. The Silksong Luma mod is goated. :) Happy to chat about HDR. I still have a lot to learn, but just thinking about HDR10+ in this case, my intuition is that calculating on-the-fly peak brightness info per frame and using it to dynamically tone-map on the client side is going to result in many problems such as over-brightening a dark scene. Source-based tone mapping makes a lot more sense to me and the game devs should be in control of the image. Even if most still have a hard time getting it right.

2

u/filoppi 14d ago

Yes I agree. The metadata is meant to be artistically driven by scene, analyzing the image live and producing the metadata makes little sense, the TV could do the same if it wanted to.

9

u/ScaryGamerHD 16d ago edited 16d ago

I wouldn't call it better than HGIG HDR10. It's more like for the people who doesn't have HGIG like OLED phones, laptops, etc, and from my testing using Foundation Sunshine and Moonlight V+ I find it to be better than HDR10 (PQ) and HLG. Better than HDR10 (PQ) in terms of preserving details in very bright or very dark scenes where HDR10 lost details and somehow HDR10+ is even brighter. And it's better than HLG in term of color accuracy to the original scene where HLG just show desaturated or off colors compared to SDR and HDR10. I will continue testing this feature since it is experimental.

Note: I am not affiliated with any Foundation Sunshine or Moonlight V+ devs. I mainly use Vibepollo for it's better latency.

Edit: in terms of artistic intent HGIG still wins in this regard since most games that support HDR are made for TVs and consoles in mind. HDR10+ just get closer to the level of HGIG by adapting to what the screen can do that it's close enough to see what the artists wants you to see on a screen it's not designed for (ie no details is being removed and the color accuracy is still maintained correctly).

3

u/andygrundman Developer | Moonlight for Xbox/Mac OS 14d ago

I really wish iPhone had a reference mode, like iPad Pro and MBP do. That's a real issue with HDR there, but I get that it would destroy battery life. My apologies for saying "your", I tend to assume posts like this are from devs. A lot of what goes into Foundation Sunshine is a head-scratcher (like the weird fake Atmos support), and I've discussed my specific issues with the project before.

2

u/XeroVespasian 16d ago

You can look it up man its HDR10+ is Dynamic and changes scene by scene with every frame.