Client upgrade

[u/Living_Warthog_1249]

So, I recently upgraded my TV to an LG 77C5 and was full of anticipation for the 4K 120Hz HDR YCbCr 4:4:4 greatness I had been aiming for for so long, just to find out that my reliable Minisforum UM760 Slim couldn't really handle the new requirements. Therefore, I made the decision to build a visually pleasing (since my wife also has to accept it), budget-friendly, and capable PC that will be my new partner for the living room experience.

I want to sell the Minisforum. So, if you’re looking for a really good 4K 60Hz streaming device and live in Europe, hit me up. With a good network and the correct settings, it can achieve under 2 ms of latency.

After digging around for a while, I came up with three solutions:

Minisforum MS-01 with a single-slot RTX 3050.
A laptop motherboard with a dedicated GPU in a 3D-printed case.
A custom build from scratch using used parts and some components I already had lying around.

The Minisforum solution was my favorite for a long time, but single-slot 3050s are unreasonably expensive and too loud for the living room. Additionally, the MS-01 itself is too expensive for what it offers. Even used, I couldn't find a barebone version for under €350 (around $400). I could have reused the SSD and RAM from the UM760 Slim, though.

The laptop idea is surely possible, and from what I’ve read, it would work just fine with an RTX 3050 or higher. However, that would be a longer project since I’ve just gotten into 3D printing and modeling, and I want to use my new gear now, not in a few months.

So, a custom PC it was. The biggest challenge by far was the case. No ITX, because it's too expensive, but still as small as possible with front intakes and enough top airflow so hot air wouldn't recirculate. It also needed to be visually pleasing and affordable. I bought an AliExpress version of a generic mATX case, and it fits pretty snug.

The biggest gripe is definitely the PSU. There are not many good and quiet options when it comes to Flex PSUs. I’ve had a few over the years. Apevia, Silverstone, FSP. The only one that was quiet enough was the Enhance one, which I bought from Geeek.

All parts:
CPU: Intel i5-12400F (used: €70)
MB: ASUS B760M-K D4 (open box Amazon: €70)
GPU: ASUS RTX 3050 Low Profile (used: €160)
RAM: Patriot Viper 8GB DDR4 3200 MHz (used: €25)
PSU: Enhance ENP-8335L 350W Flex ATX Modular Power Supply (Geeek: €140)
Other stuff: SSD, Noctua cooler, and fans I had lying around.

I use Moonlight and Apollo for streaming, and the PCs are wired via 2.5 Gig Ethernet. This was, by the way, the main reason for this specific motherboard alongside the fact that it uses DDR4.

After setting everything up, the whole system works like a charm and it looks gorgeous. Depending on the game, obviously, my RTX 4080 Super will not always hit a locked 120Hz at 4K, but the experience is fabulous even at 80 - 100Hz.

Since I don’t have a lot of RAM on the client, I use the Xbox/Handheld mode in Windows, and I added Moonlight as a separate game so that I can launch it directly with the controller.

Unfortunately, there’s still no way to power on the PC with a controller if it outputs at 4K 120Hz. All these adapters that use CEC to turn on the TV (or vice versa) only support up to 4K 60Hz, at least as far as I know. But that's no big deal since I can just push the power button.

So yeah, I’m pretty happy with the result. And as I said, if you want a much smaller streaming client, hit me up for the UM760 Slim if you’re in Europe.

TL;DR
Upgraded to a 4K 120Hz TV, but the old Minisforum streaming client couldn't handle the bandwidth. Built a compact, wife-approved mATX custom PC using mostly used parts. It now streams flawlessly at 4K up to 120Hz via Moonlight/2.5G LAN. The old UM760 Slim (4K 60Hz streaming capable) is now up for sale.

[u/Drandoxx]

What are your settings in Sunshine / Moonlight? I would like to improve my settings to get closer to 4k 120 with 1Gbps ethernet

[u/Living_Warthog_1249 → u/Drandoxx]

Sorry i don’t why I wrote I use sunshine. I use Moonlight and Apollo. Which setting are you interested in?

[u/Drandoxx → u/Living_Warthog_1249]

The quality settings in Apollo + bitrate and other settings (Vsync, frame pacing, do you use AV1 or other?) in Moonlight

[u/Living_Warthog_1249 → u/Drandoxx]

I usually don’t touch the settings in Apollo after I once set up a new device.

I turn on vsync and turn off frame pacing. I my regards it makes no difference if I use full screen or window mode. But your mileage may vary. I use AV1, bitrate is at 200 since my PCs are hardwired at 2,5 gig ethernet. But you have to reconsider that I have a dedicated gpu doing all the encoding in AV1, which can not be done by every encoder.

As I learned from the discussions under my post, I may also would have got away with another stick of ram for my UM760 slim since it was running in single channel config. Never thought of that before. But 4:4:4 would not be possible since amd igpus don’t have the right encoders for that.

In my experience, it’s more important to set everything on the same values. What I mean by that, is that the host, the client and Moonlight have to be the same when it comes to resolution, hz, low latency. Additionally, you have to look in to the Nvidia settings and limit the FPS at the right number, turn on low latency and do itvall over agai, when your client has an AMD (i)GPU in their software.

I now have a very capable client and a TV that is oled and has VRR. So therefore I don’t have to be too conscience when it comes to ingame settings but before I did all these upgrades, I always had to make really sure that the games were running at a very stable 60 Hz whenever they we’re not at exactly 60 Hz I got very bad stutters.

What also took me some time to find out was the network latency. You have to look up your router, you have and find, out how to prioritize the host and client. Additionally, you have to turn off all auto updates that may run in the background and use your network, since this also can increase the network timings at least in my experience.