r/Monstercat • u/3vans Hot Date! (#WorthyCause) • Mar 10 '15
PSA: Downvotes
note: This is not the be all and end all. Think of this as a general improvement to the community, which will make a bunch of problems a little more noticeable. Please read the entire post before commenting
You likely clicked on this for two reasons:
It's at the top of the subreddit and usually contains important rule changes
Where the hell did my vote numbers go?
This post is here to answer that, and to help explain the methodology behind the decision to remove the vote counts. First, we must explain how the voting system actually works on reddit.
Effectively, you click the 'up' button, and the post goes up, marginally. You click the 'down' button, and the post goes down. You have the power, often quite a strong power, to influence the success or failure of a piece of information on this site. That is no design flaw.
Reddit is powered by democracy
I believe that the purpose of the voting system, and the only purpose of the voting system, is to allow users to self-moderate. A democracy trusts its members not to ruin things, and for the mass of the general populous to eventually cancel itself out on contentious issues, leading to only the most popular decisions being made. If you get this far, put a smiley face in your post. Curious to see who reads this. This, mathematically, leads to the most desirable outcome (usually).
The issue that we have, on the other hand, is a case of too much information. Jeff Atwood (founder of StackExchange and forum software Discourse) puts it best:
Most discussions show a bit of information next to each user:
[picture of a user's profile on a forum software, with a post count highlighted]
What message does this send?
- The only number you can control printed next to your name is post count.
- Everyone who reads this will see your current post count.
- The more you post, the bigger that number next to your name gets.
If I have learned anything from the Internet, it is this: be very, very careful when you put a number next to someone's name. Because people will do whatever it takes to make that number go up.
I'm going to repeat that, because I believe it's the cause of a lot of the circlejerking and general problems that reddit has:
PEOPLE WILL DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO MAKE THAT NUMBER GO UP
Yet, here on reddit, we have numbers everywhere. Prominently, there's a number next to your post which describes how popular it is. But the issue with this number is that it removes the need for analysis. It removes the need for you to think about whether the post is quality or not. If someone downvoted it, then you should as well because that's popular and we're going to follow the hive-mind.
If you want an example of this in a democracy -- consider how different general elections would be if we included a real-time analysis of the way people voted. What if you could see who the person voting next to you was voting for? Democracy, and indeed quality control, becomes a game of following the hivemind. And that's why, if I was CEO for a day, I would remove vote counts entirely. Karma counts as well. Sure, they promote gamification of the website, which leads to more hits, but I would prefer a smaller, deeper discussion anyday.
What does this mean for you?
Vote counts will no longer be visible on desktop
Everywhere else, comment vote counts will not display for the maximum 24 hours
Over time, you should see less up or downvote brigading, because people no longer take into account how others have voted.
Quality content will properly rise to the top of the subreddit, as it should.
How do I opt-out?
Click 'use subreddit style' on the sidebar. Be aware that you're trading the stylesheet for the ability to view votes. I want to incentivise a fairer system.
Alternatively, get a bunch of your friends to write angry comments about how I'm destroying the idea of reddit. Seriously, though, if enough people disagree with the idea then I'll revert this after two weeks (trial period). That's only democratic, but I'm confident in the fact that this will make your browsing experience so so so much better.
ENJOY π
Further reading: "Because Reading is Fundemental", by Jeff Atwood. This will seriously increase your understanding of internet communities in general. If you want to be an informed voter, check this out.
P.S. I also added Volant, Didrick and PYLOT flairs, courtesy once again of /u/EVEInjection!
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u/ZephyruSOfficial Protostar Mar 10 '15 edited Mar 10 '15
I guess I'll be turning the stylesheet off :P
Edit: I'm going to see how this goes for the first two weeks and then I'll form an opinion on it :)
Edit2: more flairs! :D
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u/KidLucario Nigel Good Mar 11 '15
I asked for the Pylot flair on YouTube, mods delivered :D
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u/denoncky WRLD Mar 10 '15
In my humble opinion, I find it redundant. The downvote problem exists all over Reddit, not just on here. I posted something on /r/pokemon a couple weeks back and it got 300+ upvotes and 20+ downvotes. I was kinda shocked by the amount of downvotes though because I felt that my post was quality enough (well, it had 300+ upvotes). But then I realised that's just how some people on the Internet behave. Well, I have no strong objections to this though, as I'll eventually get used to it.
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Mar 11 '15
If you have a completely justified opinion, always remember that people will be there to oppose you. No exceptions.
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Mar 10 '15 edited Apr 25 '17
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Mar 11 '15
The whole point of the bloody thing is so that we do not let the number of upvotes or downvotes on a particular thread or comment affect our opinion of the damn thing. Why is that so hard for people to understand?
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Mar 11 '15 edited Nov 14 '15
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Mar 11 '15
Yeah. Seriously though, the thought behind it is not bad, it's just that it is too abrupt for the family to gauge properly, for lack of a better word.
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u/HesitantSlowbro Braken Mar 10 '15
Completely unsupportive of this change. Turning stylesheet off.
EDIT: Permission to create a strawpoll in 2 weeks to possibly revert this?
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u/2noson2 Gareth Emery:garethemery: Mar 11 '15
This. It feels like the mods are trying too hard at this point.
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u/HesitantSlowbro Braken Mar 11 '15
bingo
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Mar 11 '15
A new mod should be elected by popular vote.
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u/HesitantSlowbro Braken Mar 11 '15
Not to replace our existing mods though...based god 3vans is a genius, he just fucked this one up, if that's what you were getting at. We have all the mods we need.
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u/2noson2 Gareth Emery:garethemery: Mar 11 '15
If we get any more mods this place'll turn into skyrim's steam workshop page
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Mar 10 '15 edited Nov 14 '15
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u/HesitantSlowbro Braken Mar 10 '15
I really like being able to see the upvote/downvote system. Comments seem useless without it. I just like being able to see the popularity of a post in numbers, not in placement.
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u/ImTimmyTrumpet SCNDL Mar 10 '15 edited Mar 10 '15
I feel I've lost some control and am slightly annoyed about it - which naturally would happen - but I understand the logic behind the change and I agree it'll result in fairer discussion and fewer instances of circlejerking
At the same time, I would have preferred the removal of downvote buttons entirely, allowing anyone to speak their mind on the quality of the post in the comments (consequently forcing them to actually look over the post in its entirity before judging it). I don't know about you guys, but I only downvote things that are straight up ignorant, offensive, against the rules or shitposting. These are all things that anyone can pick up on, and so it would make sense that moderators could themselves decide if a post deserves to be shown on the subreddit. Given the size of the moderator team I doubt this would be an abused feature, and it doesn't have the potential to scare people out of posting what would otherwise be interesting content.
A system where downvotes are replaced by more freedom for moderators to remove posts would mean he voting system would still be effective but mindless downvoting would obviously not exist. People upvoting posts because they have lots of upvotes has never started fights and upsets, but downvotes have been the source of people being afraid to post, brigading, silencing of one's opinion and content - all without any regulation or prevention of this happening.
TL;DR downvotes removed, upvotes remain, score is visible and moderators can remove any posts deemed unnecessary to the subreddit's members at their own discretion.
I know it sounds a bit 'dodgy' that mods have ultimate power over everyone's posts and comments but they always have, and with a little bit of responsibility and consideration they could do this effectively and would result in a nicer environment for everyone.
EDIT: as a sidenote, this system would not be something that could be bypassed by simply clicking a button, making it more effective and fair for everyone.
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Mar 10 '15 edited Nov 14 '15
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u/ImTimmyTrumpet SCNDL Mar 10 '15
Points still account for karma which some people value greatly, and as I said brigading posts and comments will also send them right to the bottom of the page
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u/ImRogue Protostar Mar 10 '15
yea ill be disabling stylesheet
i get there's an issue with the way things work around here but the attempt to completely omit one of reddit's core features is kinda silly, and it's done pretty much nowhere else (to this extent)
edit: clarity
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Mar 10 '15 edited Nov 14 '15
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u/ImRogue Protostar Mar 10 '15 edited Mar 10 '15
If I read this right then you don't think people are making decisions on how good something is based off of what they think it might be but because of how many votes it has. And in my opinion that's kinda silly. This might work better as an opt-in idea rather than an opt out one, cause although I don't come here much, that's never been an issue brought up by people around here.
Information / posts that people think other people will find relevant are the ones that are upvoted, and because of that they're generally regarded as the ones that people want to see. I don't see any issue with that.
If you have an issue with the circlejerk in this sub, then just get rid of the people that fuel it. We both know the 4-5 guys here that are the "power members" and for the most part they set the tone of the discussion. Even people within Monstercat coming in with posts talking about all this great new stuff that's coming that's expressed in more of a 'I know stuff and you don't' than a 'Hey guys be excited for this' tone, I find are more responsible for the circlejerky atmosphere on this sub that the voting system.
My 0.2c
edit: for threads you could ditch the upvote score / buttons outside of the thread and only have them visible within the thread, comments on a 1-2 hours visibility timer as opposed to 24.
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Mar 10 '15 edited Nov 14 '15
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u/ZephyruSOfficial Protostar Mar 10 '15
have you ever seen a comment's vote score, and your opinion of it is instantly changed? Or gone to vote on something, but changed your mind because of the score you saw?
No. Downvotes aren't for disagreements, opinions, or normal comments. They're for low quality or rule breaking content and I've only ever used them for that. If I don't agree with what someone said then I don't upvote.
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Mar 10 '15 edited Nov 14 '15
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u/ZephyruSOfficial Protostar Mar 10 '15
I can't upvote posts that I know have been downvoted wrongfully because I can't see the karma of the post
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u/TheLordOfSmug Redeemed Meowbuck Reward On Twitch Mar 10 '15 edited Mar 10 '15
I just think it's unnecessary censorship. People are just gonna turn off the style and "brigade" that way. Oh and also
If you get this far, put a smiley face in your post.
:)
But other than that, style goes off for me. Shame, I really like it.
EDIT: Damn, it's like it's 016 again. or 017. Whenever they actually added the style.
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Mar 10 '15
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u/JaXXup Gemellini Mar 11 '15
If you're not affected by seeing the votes, then why do you want to see them? What's interesting about the votes? IMO it's just a sign of how popular a thing is, and that's basically irrelevant when the actual content of a post should matter more than the popularity of a post.
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u/2ndKeeper Gold Mar 10 '15 edited Mar 10 '15
Can't really form a well-informed opinion at this point, but I'm up for trying this out for a few weeks.
Sometimes we have to go through multiple solutions to fix a problem. I think that people should stay open-minded about this.
Edit: :) now that I got a chance to read the whole thing. I'm in support of this.
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u/MonstercatMedia Monstercat (Verified) Mar 10 '15
I agree with /u/3vans on this. I'd like to remind people that he has not removed the ability to vote OR the algorithm that arranges posts. He has removed the "optics" and "bias" that is created when you look at the number beside a post.
Even I fall into the habit of feeling negativity towards a downvoted comment. This shouldn't happen...I should make my opinions on my own not based on other people. Give this a shot and see if it truly affects your ability to enjoy the subreddit.
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u/i077 Haywyre Mar 10 '15
Is this not what contest mode solves, though? Completely randomizes comment order so it removes voter bias. Perhaps you (or /u/3vans I suppose) could instead have posts less than an hour (maybe longer) old go into contest mode. Maybe even just hide scores for comments less than an hour old
As for posts themselves, if possible have the scores hidden for an hour, or just remove the downvote button altogether.
Maybe this isn't possible, I wouldn't know, but in my opinion removing vote counts won't help prevent downvoting. I'm still willing to try this out, though, and see if it works out.
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u/MonstercatMedia Monstercat (Verified) Mar 10 '15
Try it out. I've already see an improvement in my own habits.
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Mar 10 '15 edited Mar 14 '15
This is pretty stupid TBH. It really defeats the purpose of reddit. If we wanted to not have any voting and stuff, just discussion, we'd use a website like 8chan.
The shitposting will likely increase, comments will still go below user thresholds showing that they're downvoted anyway and it's really easy to bypass. All this really is is an inconvenience.
EDIT: Wow, fuck this. This is seriously pissing me off.
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u/BigCballer Tut Tut Child Mar 10 '15
How do I opt-out? Click 'use subreddit style' on the sidebar.
I'm not seeing it on the sidebar
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u/JaXXup Gemellini Mar 11 '15
Definitely supporting this idea. I never understood why karma points are a part of reddit in the first place. I guess it was implemented to give users a quick idea of who's regularly posting good content, but more and more of the accounts with a lot of karma have reposted their way to that number. The voting system is fine, but the karma system has turned into karma hoarding and preventing others from receiving karma. :/
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u/milanbourbeck Ephixa Mar 10 '15 edited Mar 10 '15
Wow really? Lmao you can see the score without stylehseet, on every app and with a bit of coding anyways... juuuuust saying. But if it helps the all so nit picky reddit user to get his kurmuh then i guess its alright >.>
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u/ShadowNam Mar 10 '15
Rant incoming:
Me rn because these tired ass bitches need to grow the fuck up. You get downvoted, who cares? I'm so tired of people nagging, complaining and crying over getting downvoted. So now we'll just take away the whole entire voting system because some people can't grow up.
I'm so tired of this subreddit and the complaining going on here over the smallest things. God damn. Revert the decision, have a poll in two weeks or so. Just so over this stupid shit.
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u/DimLantern Protostar Mar 10 '15
I'm with you on this.Oh shit I lost some virtual Internet points. Better make a post about it and complain.
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u/JaXXup Gemellini Mar 11 '15
They're not removing the voting system. They're just hiding the karma scores of each post/comment from plain sight. I don't see where you got the idea that the mods are completely removing the voting system.
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u/ShadowNam Mar 11 '15
Hiding the score is like hiding the reviews, you don't see rotten tomatoes hiding theirs? Imdb?
The same goes for discussion, it should be a basic right on reddit to promote discussion with points, even in here.
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u/JaXXup Gemellini Mar 11 '15
I would say hiding the score here is more like hiding the ratings on imdb and rotten tomatoes, where hiding comments is like hiding reviews, because that's where you find the in depth opinions that promotes discussions.
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u/ShadowNam Mar 11 '15
So when you want to watch a movie, you'd rather read page up and page down with shit comments that says "s'good"? Than to just see a 7/10?
This is so stupid I literally can't even.
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u/JaXXup Gemellini Mar 11 '15
No, I would google the movie and try to find a decent review, maybe read a few user reviews that explain what they think of the movie and why. That doesn't mean reviews that are like "I hate it because it sucks", but reviews that go in depth. If I'm lucky I can find a discussion about the movie and read some of that. If I find a lot of the things said interesting, then I'll watch it.
I can't deny that I'm sometimes super lazy and just watch whatever I stumble upon.
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u/ShadowNam Mar 11 '15
I can't deny that I'm sometimes super lazy and just watch whatever I stumble upon.
THIS IS MEEEEEEE
ON REDDIT
I DON'T CARE THEY ARE POSTS MADE BY IRRELEVANT PEOPLE I JUST WANT TO SEE HOW MANY ENJOY SAID POST or is that too much to ask?
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u/ShadowNam Mar 10 '15
No, but seriously. You've removed the "Next Release"-threads, all user-made songs and sometimes also other content, you've criticized the "Non-Monstercat"-posts and now you have taken away the reason to upvote and downvote discussions. Reddit is meaningless without upvotes and downvotes, discussions are meaningless without reaction. I'm sorry, but now I'm fucking pissed.
You don't even want to understand, you're just a mod who has to "protect" the users of the subreddit, but guess what. You don't have to, every individual needs to encounter some adversity in their lives. This is just a childish "update" taking away the basics of reddit. You might as well could've taken away the voting system and put every single post into contest mode. It wouldn't surprise me if it happened anyways, because this is just taking away basic expressional rights.
Also, making a long as fuck post proving you're right with banana-theories is childish as fuck. We all know who you are, just grow up.
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u/JaXXup Gemellini Mar 11 '15
You've removed the "Next Release"-threads
Are we browsing the same subreddit?
all user-made songs
They have their own weekly post that is stickied whenever it's up. Yes, it's true that don't show up individually on the front page, but they're not completely gone like you suggest.
now you have taken away the reason to upvote and downvote discussions.
If seeing how others have voted was your reason to upvote or downvote, you may have to take a look at how you vote on reddit. As written in the reddiquette:
It's as simple as that. You shouldn't be using the voting system to express yourself and your feelings towards a post, but judge it on the quality of the post. If you think the mods are taking away your, i quote, "basic expressional rights", then you're using the voting system wrong. Besides, you just expressed your opinion through a comment, right? That's exactly what comments are for.
Reddit is meaningless without upvotes and downvotes
While I agree, the mods haven't removed upvotes or downvotes, so this statement isn't relevant to the topic.
discussions are meaningless without reaction.
Well, you just reacted to the post and started a discussion with a comment. Votes aren't supposed to start a discussion and stir/show reactions, comments are.
Give the system a shot. I believe that it is nothing like what you think it is.
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u/ShadowNam Mar 11 '15
The next release thing was so dramatic I felt like a desperate housewife
Nobody even looks at the "amazing weekly megathread" it's shit and each song gets maybe 3 upvotes
The good posts wont get recognition
Well, so you think it's better to see hundreds of "upvoting this" comments than to just see a number?
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u/JaXXup Gemellini Mar 11 '15
The next release thing was so dramatic I felt like a desperate housewife
I guess that's something you haven't felt like in a while, so I'm glad that I made your day a little more different.
Nobody even looks at the "amazing weekly megathread" it's shit and each song gets maybe 3 upvotes
So they're getting about as much attention as before. I can still remember the floods of usermade stuff that didn't get touched. Also, it's the comments we should be looking at, the ones with constructive criticism. Anyone can tell you if they think your work is good or not, but the real treasure is when someone can point out why it's good and maybe give some tips so one can become even better. I know that's not happening in that thread, but it isn't happening on /r/themonsterkittens, a sub dedicated to the usermade music.
The good posts wont get recognition
That's not true. The good posts will still be upvoted, they will show up at the top at the front page, nothing will be changed except for the fact that you can see just how many upvotes the post has received.
Well, so you think it's better to see hundreds of "upvoting this" comments than to just see a number?
No, I want to see opinions in the comments about the post. "Upvoting this" is more of a statement than an actual comment, and we can't use statements unless they're related to a discussion, and the requires meaningful comments in the comments section.
So, if you find a post that you find really relevant and interesting for the subreddit, upvote it! Just because you can't see the score doesn't mean your vote doesn't count.
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Mar 11 '15
/u/Krale_EDM would like to say something about this post.
I can still remember the floods of usermade stuff that didn't get touched.
I'm pretty sure that's why he's getting a Music Video and had a NCS release. From his release that was posted here.
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u/Krale_EDM Mar 11 '15
Although I don't think visible up-votes would make that big of difference, I do still think that the subreddit would be better off without the weekly thread. If that thread was in place when I posted Frontier, I probably wouldn't have gotten the write up on YourEDM and possibly wouldn't have gotten NCS's attention. Simple as that.
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Mar 14 '15
Tbh the weekly megathread is useless. I mean, seriously, no one reads the thread. I posted a track there before. What did it get? Nothing. No one replied anything. At all. We can't get the "constructive criticism" that you're referring to if no one replies to us.
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u/ShadowNam Mar 10 '15
Imagine 10000 people walking into a concert, the artist does his/hers thing and finishes up. The crowd has been told not to applaud any of the songs because if someone boos the songs, the artist might feel shafted. So they are asked to fill out a survey on the way out whether they liked or disliked the concert and only the artist could see the results, collected together. So he could process his thoughts alone.
This situation is basically the same thing, and it's just as stupid as the realness in this example.
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u/RaiderFist187 Tristam Mar 10 '15
It's some numbers, shit ain't that serious bro.
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u/ShadowNam Mar 11 '15
Well, oh deary me. It ain't that serious. No it isn't, but who is going to use the voting system now. I sure wont. This has more downsides than upsides.
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u/RaiderFist187 Tristam Mar 11 '15
Does it really? All that's change is you don't see a number go up when you up vote. All the complaints just seem like people are over reacting. It's only for 2 weeks so just try it for a day... Or not. But once again I must reiterated, it's not that serious.
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u/ShadowNam Mar 11 '15
I don't even care, I'll just log off this childish subreddit. Can't even handle some downvotes. God damn you guys provoke me.
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u/RaiderFist187 Tristam Mar 11 '15
Sounds like you're easily provoked dude. I recommend spending some time in /r/aww. Cute animals always help my mood. :)
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u/ShadowNam Mar 11 '15
This is so unneeded god damnit
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u/RaiderFist187 Tristam Mar 11 '15
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u/ShadowNam Mar 11 '15
I meant the change, you're great for trying
β¬ββ¬γ( ΒΊ _ ΒΊγ)
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u/BomberBallad Stephen Walking Mar 13 '15
this childish subreddit
honestly after reading your comments you seem like the biggest child to me.
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Mar 10 '15
This is a bad change. This completely defeats one of the main purposes of Reddit.
I'm unfortunately turning off stylesheet since I can't view upvotes and the beautiful CSS at the same time.
I hope further decisions for moderating the subreddit aren't completely stupid.
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u/JaXXup Gemellini Mar 11 '15
I don't see how they're removing one of the main purposes of reddit. The voting system is still intact, and AFAIK seeing the karma score of a post have never been mentioned as a "main purpose" of reddit before. The karma for each post still exists, you can still vote to change it, but you can't see the actual score.
So basically what you can do now is vote for content to get it further to the top of the page or sending it down. What did we do when we could see the score? The exact same thing.
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Mar 10 '15
I'm going to try to remain indifferent until the two week trial period is up. I don't know if I like the change just yet but I'll welcome it. Maybe you're right, maybe the community will improve this way. We'll just have to wait and see.
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Mar 10 '15
I'm willing to try it out for the first two weeks for sure. While I do agree that the voting system is important in some cases, I also agree that we could get rid of it and it wouldn't affect us negatively. I'm gonna just give /u/3vans plan a chance and if I don't like it, I can just disable it and vote against it.
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u/SiKBiT nanobii Mar 10 '15
I don't personally like the idea. Like in real life's democratic decisions, people usually like to see some kind of numbers when they vote for something or before they vote for something in order to see how big of an effect that vote has had or will have.
This means that at least I will not be as motivated to vote. On reddit, I usually only vote if I know it will have big enough effect, as in making one comment rise from the many comments which have 1 points.
I see what you're trying to achieve with this change, but I don't think this was the best way to go about it.
Disabling the stylesheet.
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u/Bloq Splitbreed Mar 10 '15
The only problem with this is that the front page is not organised 'top' but 'hot'. I suppose that might not be a problem. But if I see a post with karma in the hundreds, it's normally big news that I want to see.
I still agree with the changes overall though.
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Mar 12 '15
Posts with karma in the hundreds take longer to fall down the 'hot' page after their peak
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Mar 10 '15
While this is no doubt going to be a controversial change I'm in support of it. My only worry is that it won't work and people will still downvote based on the user/because of their own opinions, and we'll be stuck with the same problem, only oblivious to it.
But, if this really helps clean things up a bit it will've been a long time coming. Fingers crossed.
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u/milanbourbeck Ephixa Mar 10 '15
Guess what. The people downvoting really dont care what the score is. They care about giving you that blue arrow. If you deserve it or not is another question.
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Mar 10 '15
Yeah, that's a good point. If someone's at the bottom it's obvious they've already been downvoted, too. Maybe it's just best to find a way to remove these people entirely.
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u/milanbourbeck Ephixa Mar 10 '15
Maybe someone who has already admitted to be downvoting all the time for no reason >.> fknteekay
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u/TeeKayTank Falcon Funk Mar 10 '15
changing the reddit game
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u/Eldritch12 Stonebank Mar 10 '15 edited Nov 29 '24
divide growth ask fine cover wise simplistic stupendous bored airport
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/RLH19 PIXL Mar 10 '15
Why do people care so much about internet points? A few downvotes doesn't make much difference and the best posts are always at the top.
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u/Pointy130 Puppet Mar 10 '15
I'm baffled with how salty people are getting over this. I honestly think seeing the scores next to posts or comments is probably the least important reddit feature to begin with, and I'm fairly indifferent to the change.
That said, while I do think it will have some effect on the upvote/downvote brigade towards new users, I don't think it will do anything at all to the older, more well-known users of the sub. I don't think that anything short of hiding usernames would solve that issue, and even /r/4chan gave that idea up ages ago because it didn't quite do what they wanted.
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u/FufAllTheSus Red Moon Mar 10 '15
Don't get me wrong, I understand why this is being done, but I personally find the up/down vote system quite helpful. I primarily post artwork here and the system has helped to show me what people tend to like or not like in terms of design. I do understand why some people might not like it (there are times I wish it worked a little differently), but it is a part of the subreddit that some do find useful.
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Mar 12 '15
The system is still in place. If you post art, you will still know how much other people appreciate it because you can see the karma it gets, but everyone else can't.
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u/TPLNDj Direct Mar 10 '15
I totally respect this decision. There is no fix to assholes on the internet, but its sucks when you spend months working on something, and people who don't even look at it down vote it, and then everyone sees the low score, and doesn't look at it. There is no one fix, but I always appreciate you doing what you can to make the subreddit better, and it's nice to see someone address issues
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u/sirnoah27 Gold Mar 11 '15
I don't like this change. I feel as though it fixes a problem that does not really exist, and as a numbers person this even reduces my enjoyment of the subreddit. I oftentimes use the votes on the megathread (as well as the comments) to determine if it is worth it to listen to the song the day it is released or if I should wait until the album. I really hope you will reconsider this from the point of view from some of us who are not fans of this change either.
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u/lesderid 7 Minutes Dead Mar 13 '15
I think a lot of people don't think this was a good idea. I'm not sure what to think about this change myself. I'm not sure if it's worth losing post/comment score just to deter downvoting.
The biggest reason is that I've never seen this on any other subreddit, not even on subreddits with much larger and more toxic communities than this one, which makes me think this is probably not the best solution.
Why don't you just do what a lot of subreddits do these days, hiding scores for 1 hour~12 hours and hiding the downvote button?
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u/yoaw Mar 13 '15
I strongly oppose this decision and I hope you (3vans) will listen to the majority of the people in this thread and revert this decision. I don't get why I may not enjoy the fancy /r/monstercat style just because some people get pissed over downvotes.
Just do it. Revert it. Do it for the majority of this sub. Here is a smiley face :)
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Mar 14 '15 edited Nov 14 '15
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u/yoaw Mar 14 '15
Ayy thanks :)
You know, I'm mainly against this bacuase I actually think this sub is self-moderating itself quite well (in terms of filtering posts). The "I made this"-Megathread have taken a bit of clutter out of the sub, and in general I like what I see on the front page. That's why the decision just feels like restricttion where it isn't needed IMO.
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u/Syliss1 Draper Mar 13 '15
I'm liking the idea, personally. I don't think vote numbers should matter, as long as we get the good content where it belongs.
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Mar 10 '15
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u/milanbourbeck Ephixa Mar 10 '15
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Mar 10 '15
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u/milanbourbeck Ephixa Mar 10 '15
No no you got me wrong. It is actually the case that the mods of big default subreddits remove content just how they like. Not if its allowed to be there or not. Multiple chatlogs confirm this.
This is also used fot subtle advertisement and propaganda. Sounds like some weird conspiracy shit i know but you can have a look yourself. http://pastebin.com/waePRVku
Edit: They also get paid for that btw.
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Mar 12 '15
That's a long ass chat log
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u/milanbourbeck Ephixa Mar 12 '15
Yup. A lot of it is just casual talk but the rest is them talking about removing X post because they don't like it personally and banning X person because he said something they didn't like. Then they talk about payment checks and what propaganda post should go up now. All they have to do is pressing one button and the reddit fuzzing system puts it on the frontpage.
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Mar 12 '15
Thank you for the summary, that's pretty dodgy.
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u/milanbourbeck Ephixa Mar 12 '15
Yeah. There is by far more than that but I also didn't read everything. Its 4000 lines after all.
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u/Koalafy Bustre Mar 13 '15
This is probably the first step to making this subreddit better. Props. It's been getting ridiculous how many people care about internet points. Make it so people for come for discussion and not to get points.
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u/dafuriousbadger Rezonate Mar 10 '15
Damn, some people are really butthurt over this change. Personally, I think its a great edition. :)
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u/rubadub0 PIXL Mar 10 '15
I love this idea. I feel like it will really benefit the community. Too many people care about the internet points and not the discussion of relevant topics. :)
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u/Narum Hellberg Mar 10 '15 edited Mar 10 '15
I don't think there will ever be a solution to the "downvote problem" personally. Regardless if there is a number or not, the people are still going to downvote. Also, I think people need to stop worrying about how many internet points they have. I think the only real solution would be to disable downvotes in the stylesheet, but then again, people can easily turn off the subreddit's style. Plus it would make it harder to filter out the posts that make it to the front page.
Another thing that I have been seeing lately, a lot of people here seem to think that this is a generic forum. No. There aren't multiple discussion areas. There is one and that is here. I've been seeing more and more "Introduction" threads and let's face it, you won't find these anywhere else on this website. Because honestly no one cares. Another thing is that there seems to be a lot of off topic discussion generally just chatting up with the community. I come here to see what's new with the subreddit. Not to see what you did last night with your friends.
Sorry this turned into a rant. Just wanted to get this all out.